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XDEKSDEEXD
622 Posts
On June 07 2013 00:06 Persh wrote: Yup, definetely is. Against mech of course more marauders and tanks  But wouldnt hellbats just roll through bio though...? And their tanks being more upgraded than ours? Can anyone else give opinions if marine/tank is still viable in TvT with hellbats now? | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
On June 07 2013 12:14 ottoottoottootto wrote: But wouldnt hellbats just roll through bio though...? And their tanks being more upgraded than ours? Can anyone else give opinions if marine/tank is still viable in TvT with hellbats now? Pure marine/tank never worked well against mech, even in WoL before hellbats. If you add marauders it's perfectly fine though. Tanks upgrade shouldn't matter much, you can upgrade mech weapons too, and tank armor isn't really relevant. As always against mech, abuse mobility, and maintain air-control so that you can drop on their tanks. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On June 07 2013 17:06 BobMcJohnson wrote: Pure marine/tank never worked well against mech, even in WoL before hellbats. If you add marauders it's perfectly fine though. Tanks upgrade shouldn't matter much, you can upgrade mech weapons too, and tank armor isn't really relevant. As always against mech, abuse mobility, and maintain air-control so that you can drop on their tanks. Your bios mobility wont be better than hellion mobility though, and well siege tank mobility is equal for both sides. Maintaining air control to drop on their tanks is nice, but a meching opponent will do exactly the same with hellbats. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 07 2013 12:12 geokilla wrote: Watching WCS right now and this got me thinking about air toss Protons where they go mass Void Rays like Alicia did against Losira. How the hell do you counter that? And please don't give a theoretical answer.. I'd like to see someone at a high level actually counter that. Because I don't think it's possible. Vikings can attempt to kite them but theoretically speaking, I think your Vikings need to consist of like your whole army, with no ground army to back them up. Ravens would work but they're an energy based unit so it takes forever to build that energy for Hunter Seeker Missiles. No one masses Voids at high level against bio because it's awful, pure Marines would easily demolish that. On June 07 2013 12:14 ottoottoottootto wrote: But wouldnt hellbats just roll through bio though...? And their tanks being more upgraded than ours? Can anyone else give opinions if marine/tank is still viable in TvT with hellbats now? Unclear, but for sure bio/Tanks vs mech is weaker than in WoL. On June 07 2013 17:06 BobMcJohnson wrote: As always against mech, abuse mobility, and maintain air-control so that you can drop on their tanks. You don't have air control when you play bio/Tanks vs mech. You have no minerals for Vikings until you decide to go for an air switch. | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
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Michal
Canada51 Posts
In WoL I loved the 1Rax gasless FE and it was so simple to figure out how to adjust, e.g. I saw his 2 - gases - bam, ebay + turrets against possible DTs, Void rays, prism... Now there are so many openings they have I get lost on what to do. I know gasless is no longer an option due to oracles, so I go 14Gas, Factory, CC. Where I get stuck though is I am torn between building turrets or widow mines. I usually prefer mines because they're not static, but then I get owned by DTs. It's almost like I need to do triple scouting to see what on earth is going on. What I do now is initial SCV scout to check for gas/pylons and then 6' SCV scout to check for expo and determine if it's an early push. It feels like I either need to scan (big waste) or go reapers - I can no longer blindly place turrets and feel safe - or can I? What should I do when defending against an early all-in - mines or turrets? If it's turrets, how do I use the factory I built? | ||
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Mastazaka
United States19 Posts
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On June 08 2013 13:17 KingofGods wrote: I don't understand why I keep losing. My mechanics are ALWAYS better than my opponents (faster bases, more workers). I always have more apm than my opponent (not a decider of skill, but at the very least it shows I am not doing anything slower than my opponent). I just don't know how to take good engagements and/or take advantage of my leads. Hard to tell without a replay but some things you could be doing wrong are: Making the wrong units, throwing waves and waves of units at him and not achieving anything or as you mentioned not taking good fights. But again a replay would be very helpful. | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On June 07 2013 12:14 ottoottoottootto wrote: But wouldnt hellbats just roll through bio though...? And their tanks being more upgraded than ours? Can anyone else give opinions if marine/tank is still viable in TvT with hellbats now? Sure it is,but its more difficult to win. Go and check the Demuslim defending this with 1-1-1 build, prespreading marines + 1 unsieged tank+1 viking. You can put a turret in your mineral line if you want. The Medivac incoming will die and the landed hellbats will attack your marines if not microed to kill the workers. You must drop him a lot as well. Two full medivacs with marines will kill a lot of infrastructure and workers as well. The slow mech wont be able to defend well, but he maybe got turret rings and you must choose carefully your drop path. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
Anyone care to critique this replay for me?I feel like I did pretty well, I took alot of bases I made enough vikings to kill his BC's, I made a ton of marauders. The only thing I didn't do is deny bases which was hard when everything except his main and nat was a PF. I did a terrible job with my upgrades completely forgetting about them for a few minutes but overall I cant find any game losing mistakes? Can anyone tell me what I should have done and what I could do better? Thanks | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On June 08 2013 16:50 A Wild Sosd wrote: http://drop.sc/340934 Anyone care to critique this replay for me?I feel like I did pretty well, I took alot of bases I made enough vikings to kill his BC's, I made a ton of marauders. The only thing I didn't do is deny bases which was hard when everything except his main and nat was a PF. I did a terrible job with my upgrades completely forgetting about them for a few minutes but overall I cant find any game losing mistakes? Can anyone tell me what I should have done and what I could do better? Thanks First of all, you were outmacroed. Your enemy was going for Mech and got 3 bases mining before you(going bio/mech).You must be always ahead on supply and trade armies with the difficult maxing mech player.On 12 min you were on ONLY 50 SCVs and he at 61.GMs are almost maxed at 13-14 and you were way low on supply,only 105...You let him land his first expansión on the place of the 3rd and make it PF.You got units enough to deny this,but the lack of scout revealed the base too late... He got 3 full saturated bases 3 minutes before you and your 3rd was waay too late. Next move was to "amove" into a siege line. Going BIO doesnt mean you need to do this. You must trade units,but the most costefficient posible. Drops were not posible because of the turret ring,so you must stay in front of his natural to see him moving and try to catch him unsieged,while expanding.You should have take then your 4th earlier to be able to replace the units you were going to lose trading.You can even try to snipe the 3rd(PF) with marauders marines+2-3 tanks.He wouldnt be able to stop you, even some doom drops wouldnt be bad idea in the natural. 16 min and no 2-2 was a huge mistake. You cant allow Mech player to got his 2-2 before you,going BIO and stop amoving into sieged lines attacking the natural as you did losing medivacs to turrets.At same time you got 11 IDLE SCVs...another huge mistake.Cant you just shift send them after the job is done? Not a single of your bases was working well at any time.There were always less tan 16 SCVs working on the minerals.Is one of the reasons you got outmacroed. At 18:50 once again same mistake: dont amove with bio into siege line with mech as support.You got lot of bases,but were trading very por while he was losing almost nothing and transitioning into BC free..2 minutes later same thing once again...Better try to drop him if you insist so to fight him face to face,but the BIO vs Mech is the game of catching your enemy out of position sniping tech and expansiont while expanding yourself.You cant afford to fight mech composition with bio face to face.You will always lose if he es SIEGED. Another macro issue is you mania to make 1000k production facilities.You dont need 17 rax and 7 Starports. With 9-11 rax and 3 Starport should be ok.So much money spent so bad and its one of the reasons why you NEVER GOT MAXED in the game.You must play BIO vs MEch TvT as it was ZvT and you being Zerg: trade armies and maxed almost instantly not allowing the enemy to expand. 29 min and once again you suiciding your entire army, even when you scanned and saw he was there sieged...Really incredible move and I cant understand how are you moving the camera across the map,maybe with the arrow keys?? It looks so dizzy and you arent doing anything moving like this.Try to click on the minimap,its much better and quicker and allows you to see instantly. You said you made ton of bases and marauders,but if you suicide them so easy,it doesnt matter if they are even 1000k.You were always behind on SCVs and equal on bases.You cant allow this and it doesnt matter if there are PF,they are NOT Immortal!!! | ||
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TRpredator
Russian Federation101 Posts
And I have general question regarding TvZ how do I identify that my opponent is going for roach/Hydra or muta/ling/bane? When I see 1-1 roach push it's too late to get siedge tanks or a good bio amount so How should I respond? | ||
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LegendaryDreams
Canada1350 Posts
So far I've generally been struggling with Terran vs Protoss in general, whether it's unit compositions or engagements/micro. I have a replay that I'd like to show, where I wasn't too sure what I could have improved on. Please take a look and any constructive criticism will be appreciated. http://drop.sc/340976 (I'm moxie) | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
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korsarz
29 Posts
just play toss. http://drop.sc/341025 n/c http://drop.sc/341029 | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 09 2013 04:33 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: What's the general opinion on here about the viability of ForGG's marauder-hellbat style in TvP that he used against all the protoss in his group in WCS? I'm thinking that it looks drastically more beefy than standard MMM, but also a hell of a lot less mobile and fast, due to the hellbats. U should take in account he harrased some too and against hero destroyed the 3rd. 3base terran against a 2base protos is different then a protos on 3 base. So best to take this in account. There is a thread somewhere in the strategycorner that discusses this composition in tvp. U should look it up | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
Is there a good way to practice ghost micro? Some Arcade or Custom map? | ||
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
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Michal
Canada51 Posts
On June 08 2013 04:36 Michal wrote: ok, I am getting frustrated with Protoss in TvP and I need some advice regarding how to hold early game Toss builds (plat league). In WoL I loved the 1Rax gasless FE and it was so simple to figure out how to adjust, e.g. I saw his 2 - gases - bam, ebay + turrets against possible DTs, Void rays, prism... Now there are so many openings they have I get lost on what to do. I know gasless is no longer an option due to oracles, so I go 14Gas, Factory, CC. Where I get stuck though is I am torn between building turrets or widow mines. I usually prefer mines because they're not static, but then I get owned by DTs. It's almost like I need to do triple scouting to see what on earth is going on. What I do now is initial SCV scout to check for gas/pylons and then 6' SCV scout to check for expo and determine if it's an early push. It feels like I either need to scan (big waste) or go reapers - I can no longer blindly place turrets and feel safe - or can I? What should I do when defending against an early all-in - mines or turrets? If it's turrets, how do I use the factory I built? anybody? Just got owned by DT again, while having mines in minerals and being screwed by oracles a game before. It really feels like it's a conflip against a Toss now and I'd like to make it not so. thx for any advice | ||
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