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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On June 04 2013 06:48 Wrathsc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 06:24 azngamer828 wrote:
i dont know if anyone has asked this but i have a question regarding TvZ
1) i am watching demuslim's stream and he uses marine/medivac/hellbat compositions and later adding marauders for ultralisks... i noticed he doesnt use much mines (or as far as i see on stream haha) but my question is...
when do you actually use mines or use hellbats or both?
rephrase... on what composition of zerg do you use mines or hellbats or both?
hope that question is clear haha if u have good splits...by all means go with the hellbat composition. demuslism is going for that composition because it works really well against ling bling muta because he can split decently. However, widow mines are still better imo especially against z that use a shit ton of banes.
I dont dare to say which is better : mines or hellbats. Demuslim uses hellbats instead of mines because he thinks the mines damages his troops to much. Thats what he said on stream. Ofcourse he also uses WM's but not like innovation dus everytime.
Remember forgg in semifinal against stephano... thats why demu likes hellbats also. They can cost u games too.
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On June 04 2013 06:56 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 06:48 Wrathsc2 wrote:On June 04 2013 06:24 azngamer828 wrote:
i dont know if anyone has asked this but i have a question regarding TvZ
1) i am watching demuslim's stream and he uses marine/medivac/hellbat compositions and later adding marauders for ultralisks... i noticed he doesnt use much mines (or as far as i see on stream haha) but my question is...
when do you actually use mines or use hellbats or both?
rephrase... on what composition of zerg do you use mines or hellbats or both?
hope that question is clear haha if u have good splits...by all means go with the hellbat composition. demuslism is going for that composition because it works really well against ling bling muta because he can split decently. However, widow mines are still better imo especially against z that use a shit ton of banes. I dont dare to say which is better : mines or hellbats. Demuslim uses hellbats instead of mines because he thinks the mines damages his troops to much. Thats what he said on stream. Ofcourse he also uses WM's but not like innovation dus everytime. Remember forgg in semifinal against stephano... thats why demu likes hellbats also. They can cost u games too.
I go with that same demu style. Hellbats have brought my TvZ back from the brinks. 2 reapers -> 6 hellions -> 6-8 widow mines -> 2 reactor fac hellbat production.
Once they go ultras, I get a third tech labbed fac, and get widow mines producing more WMs to hellbat ratio...since well...hellbats don't cut it against ultras. I can kite a lot better knowing I got a widow mine field coming up.
I just use widow mines defensively against zerg, personally. I don't have the skill to properly lay out widow mines and still split my army around well.
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On June 04 2013 00:51 droit wrote:
The reaper reactor expansion seems, from my perspective, to be an auto build order loss to 1base fast oracles. I've been toying with the idea of dropping the additional fact or rax and building a straight eng bay for turrets if I see two gas and no third pylon.
11 masters, but I've only had experience against this build like 3 times. Anyone else have any revelations about this?
Edit: The reason why I don't just do this is because proxied gateways or blink stalkers would probably be impossible to defend.
Demuslim was doing a 19 supply ebay with his reaper FE and primarily to get very fast bio upgrades. An added bonus is early turrets if you scout stargate (and for DTs later). Plus you should have some marines with the reactor right after your reaper finishes at 17 supply.
Reaper FE seems like a very safe build in TvP. The scouting is priceless.
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Quick question about Terran low-level strats
Asking for a friend, i main toss ^.^
BUT - what build goals should he focus on? Hes top 10 bronze league, with a low win rate. (To give you an idea of his skill level/competitions skill level)
Im NOT asking for build orders etc, i realize this is against the forum rules. What i am asking, is:
Are there any overlying strategies he should focus on perfecting, specifically to 1. gain skill 2. win v bronze mentality players.
Any sort of cheeses that he should get down?
Or build names he should read up on that are targeted for and agaisnt newer players? Or any techniques he should aim to perfect?
Thanks in advance ^.^ This forum is magic
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On June 04 2013 18:56 endahlol wrote:
Quick question about Terran low-level strats
Asking for a friend, i main toss ^.^
BUT - what build goals should he focus on? Hes top 10 bronze league, with a low win rate. (To give you an idea of his skill level/competitions skill level)
Im NOT asking for build orders etc, i realize this is against the forum rules. What i am asking, is:
Are there any overlying strategies he should focus on perfecting, specifically to 1. gain skill 2. win v bronze mentality players.
Any sort of cheeses that he should get down?
Or build names he should read up on that are targeted for and agaisnt newer players? Or any techniques he should aim to perfect?
Thanks in advance ^.^ This forum is magic
He obviously need to get a good macro.
Make him watch those : http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyRd56uoh38pWI3hITzzf3Btm36QD3ATi
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How can I hold off a roach-ling/roach all-in arriving at roughly 9:20 when going innovation-style 3cc (with reactored hellions and early stim)? 
I tried making tanks, marauders and extra bunkers, but didn't succeed for me :/
Replay: http://drop.sc/340141
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Hi there,
some days ago i played vs a faster than usual proxy oracle build. The oracle did hit my mineral line at 5:03 minutes in the game (he delayed warpgate tech and focused on getting the oracle asap). I was able to hold it with a CC first into doublerax, however i asked this guy after the game to do the same build again vs my reaper opening. We did reset the replay several times and any sort of usual reaper into reactor opening seems to die straight up to this.
The only way i could survive was by building a bunker in my mineralline... however i don't see ANY terran do this upon scouting a proxy oracle build. Like stated in the "how do i deal with oracles" section, you can scout this build, but i still wonder how Terran players can open with reapers so confidently. Is there anything that i am missing, or any micro-based defense that they are confident to pull off? In my games, even running away with my scv and waiting for more marines did not help because the oracle has plenty of time before my 4th/5th (or 3rd/4th - depending if i built a marine before reaper) marine pops out and can just chase my marines down (or camp my barracks) so that the second incoming oracle wins the game.
Tl;dr: The currently very common reaper opening seems to die right away to this build - how can i survive the oracle after opening reaper expand without building a bunker in my mineralline? If i can't, how comes that so many GM Terrans are using reaper expands in TvP right now?
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On June 05 2013 03:18 Grunblatt wrote:
Hi there,
some days ago i played vs a faster than usual proxy oracle build. The oracle did hit my mineral line at 5:03 minutes in the game (he delayed warpgate tech and focused on getting the oracle asap). I was able to hold it with a CC first into doublerax, however i asked this guy after the game to do the same build again vs my reaper opening. We did reset the replay several times and any sort of usual reaper into reactor opening seems to die straight up to this.
The only way i could survive was by building a bunker in my mineralline... however i don't see ANY terran do this upon scouting a proxy oracle build. Like stated in the "how do i deal with oracles" section, you can scout this build, but i still wonder how Terran players can open with reapers so confidently. Is there anything that i am missing, or any micro-based defense that they are confident to pull off? In my games, even running away with my scv and waiting for more marines did not help because the oracle has plenty of time before my 4th/5th (or 3rd/4th - depending if i built a marine before reaper) marine pops out and can just chase my marines down (or camp my barracks) so that the second incoming oracle wins the game.
Tl;dr: The currently very common reaper opening seems to die right away to this build - how can i survive the oracle after opening reaper expand without building a bunker in my mineralline? If i can't, how comes that so many GM Terrans are using reaper expands in TvP right now?
This is super easy to scout, the protoss has to get the stargate before starting a stalker, MsC or Warp Gate. Your normal SCV scout should be in their base when at least two of these three things should be started. If they aren't, you can be 100% confident this is coming.
The reaction I use is to simply build an engineering bay (you can either use this in base for early +1 weapons- this style can actually be considered a standard opening- or at your opponent's natural to block the expansion and try to force an all-in follow up) and get a missile turret in your main mineral line. Rally marines to the turret so they can't get picked off, and scout with reaper to see if your opponent is doing a 3-4 gate all-in follow up. (Edit: forgot to mention you can rally the reaper straight across the map and get 3-4+ free worker kills before his stalker finishes)
Another reaction is, upon scouting the build, don't build the reactor and instead produce constant marines after the reaper, search for the proxy with the reaper and pull 3-4 SCVs to target down the pylon before the oracle finishes. Because he's forgoing his first stalker, he has no units out on the field to prevent you from doing this. (Edit: I don't like this as much because you can't get free worker kills with the reaper and you lose a bit of mining time, and it's still not as consistent since it's possible you wont find the proxy in time.)
All of this assumes you SCV scout; if you don't, blindly getting an early engineering bay for +1 weapons ala Demuslim is the only way I know of that works consistently.
Edit; if your opponent gets warp gate + stalker before stargate, you can still tell he's proxying by the lack of a third pylon. You should have 6 marines ready to defend against this, but I still build the engineering bay + turret when facing this.
Edit Edit: Also check the OP under TvP early game how do you deal with oracles, has more information on how well various counter to oracles work.
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Is Marine-Tank viable against a Protoss who is going Chargelot-Storms/Archon in say the first 10 or so minutes of a game? I tried to hit a timing just now with 1-1 and Stim, but my attack hit too early as he decided to move out of his Natural to greet me (even though he had no observers...). I cleaned up the first wave, but his second wave with the Mothership Core backing up ripped me apart and forced me into the MMM + Ghosts vs Zealot-Templars, where I donated all of my units for free as I tried to EMP then Stim, which I couldn't do.
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On June 05 2013 03:53 geokilla wrote:
Is Marine-Tank viable against a Protoss who is going Chargelot-Storms/Archon in say the first 10 or so minutes of a game? I tried to hit a timing just now with 1-1 and Stim, but my attack hit too early as he decided to move out of his Natural to greet me (even though he had no observers...). I cleaned up the first wave, but his second wave with the Mothership Core backing up ripped me apart and forced me into the MMM + Ghosts vs Zealot-Templars, where I donated all of my units for free as I tried to EMP then Stim, which I couldn't do.
Look up MVP against Sase WCS EU.. He went for a tankcontain+bunker with marines in them. Look at his research and buildorder a bit and copy that. But its heavily map dependant, the map he did it on was perfect for it because there was only 1 way in and out of your base+expo (blink useless and collosi could only go in 1 way, but not every map i believe this is viable.
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On June 04 2013 07:23 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 06:56 govie wrote:On June 04 2013 06:48 Wrathsc2 wrote:On June 04 2013 06:24 azngamer828 wrote:
i dont know if anyone has asked this but i have a question regarding TvZ
1) i am watching demuslim's stream and he uses marine/medivac/hellbat compositions and later adding marauders for ultralisks... i noticed he doesnt use much mines (or as far as i see on stream haha) but my question is...
when do you actually use mines or use hellbats or both?
rephrase... on what composition of zerg do you use mines or hellbats or both?
hope that question is clear haha if u have good splits...by all means go with the hellbat composition. demuslism is going for that composition because it works really well against ling bling muta because he can split decently. However, widow mines are still better imo especially against z that use a shit ton of banes. I dont dare to say which is better : mines or hellbats. Demuslim uses hellbats instead of mines because he thinks the mines damages his troops to much. Thats what he said on stream. Ofcourse he also uses WM's but not like innovation dus everytime. Remember forgg in semifinal against stephano... thats why demu likes hellbats also. They can cost u games too. I go with that same demu style. Hellbats have brought my TvZ back from the brinks. 2 reapers -> 6 hellions -> 6-8 widow mines -> 2 reactor fac hellbat production. Once they go ultras, I get a third tech labbed fac, and get widow mines producing more WMs to hellbat ratio...since well...hellbats don't cut it against ultras. I can kite a lot better knowing I got a widow mine field coming up. I just use widow mines defensively against zerg, personally. I don't have the skill to properly lay out widow mines and still split my army around well.
Any replay of the marine/hellbat style? I'm very interested.
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On June 05 2013 04:58 targ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 07:23 iAmJeffReY wrote:On June 04 2013 06:56 govie wrote:On June 04 2013 06:48 Wrathsc2 wrote:On June 04 2013 06:24 azngamer828 wrote:
i dont know if anyone has asked this but i have a question regarding TvZ
1) i am watching demuslim's stream and he uses marine/medivac/hellbat compositions and later adding marauders for ultralisks... i noticed he doesnt use much mines (or as far as i see on stream haha) but my question is...
when do you actually use mines or use hellbats or both?
rephrase... on what composition of zerg do you use mines or hellbats or both?
hope that question is clear haha if u have good splits...by all means go with the hellbat composition. demuslism is going for that composition because it works really well against ling bling muta because he can split decently. However, widow mines are still better imo especially against z that use a shit ton of banes. I dont dare to say which is better : mines or hellbats. Demuslim uses hellbats instead of mines because he thinks the mines damages his troops to much. Thats what he said on stream. Ofcourse he also uses WM's but not like innovation dus everytime. Remember forgg in semifinal against stephano... thats why demu likes hellbats also. They can cost u games too. I go with that same demu style. Hellbats have brought my TvZ back from the brinks. 2 reapers -> 6 hellions -> 6-8 widow mines -> 2 reactor fac hellbat production. Once they go ultras, I get a third tech labbed fac, and get widow mines producing more WMs to hellbat ratio...since well...hellbats don't cut it against ultras. I can kite a lot better knowing I got a widow mine field coming up. I just use widow mines defensively against zerg, personally. I don't have the skill to properly lay out widow mines and still split my army around well. Any replay of the marine/hellbat style? I'm very interested.
Demuslim uses this strat pretty frequently on his stream.
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Hey guys. I'm looking to get into SC2 again after a long break (I only played maybe 20 games of HotS when it came out, but I've pretty much been on break for 6+ months now) due to school ending in 2 days. However, I'm not really aware of what the current builds/meta is. If someone would be so kind to fill me in (and perhaps provide a few links that I can check out), that'd be great.
Thanks!
User was warned for this post
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On June 04 2013 23:09 Persh wrote:How can I hold off a roach-ling/roach all-in arriving at roughly 9:20 when going innovation-style 3cc (with reactored hellions and early stim)? I tried making tanks, marauders and extra bunkers, but didn't succeed for me :/ Replay: http://drop.sc/340141
http://drop.sc/340231 here ya go senor. 2 reaper -> 6 hellion -> 3 OC with stim.
For safety, get marauders until you can determine it's NOT a roach play. If it is, by the time they hit, you have 3-5 of them, with at least 4 widow mines.
From what I saw from demuslims stream, when he faces roach attacks he just continues to mass widow mines, and widow mines are retardedly good against roach all ins.
On June 05 2013 04:58 targ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 07:23 iAmJeffReY wrote:On June 04 2013 06:56 govie wrote:On June 04 2013 06:48 Wrathsc2 wrote:On June 04 2013 06:24 azngamer828 wrote:
i dont know if anyone has asked this but i have a question regarding TvZ
1) i am watching demuslim's stream and he uses marine/medivac/hellbat compositions and later adding marauders for ultralisks... i noticed he doesnt use much mines (or as far as i see on stream haha) but my question is...
when do you actually use mines or use hellbats or both?
rephrase... on what composition of zerg do you use mines or hellbats or both?
hope that question is clear haha if u have good splits...by all means go with the hellbat composition. demuslism is going for that composition because it works really well against ling bling muta because he can split decently. However, widow mines are still better imo especially against z that use a shit ton of banes. I dont dare to say which is better : mines or hellbats. Demuslim uses hellbats instead of mines because he thinks the mines damages his troops to much. Thats what he said on stream. Ofcourse he also uses WM's but not like innovation dus everytime. Remember forgg in semifinal against stephano... thats why demu likes hellbats also. They can cost u games too. I go with that same demu style. Hellbats have brought my TvZ back from the brinks. 2 reapers -> 6 hellions -> 6-8 widow mines -> 2 reactor fac hellbat production. Once they go ultras, I get a third tech labbed fac, and get widow mines producing more WMs to hellbat ratio...since well...hellbats don't cut it against ultras. I can kite a lot better knowing I got a widow mine field coming up. I just use widow mines defensively against zerg, personally. I don't have the skill to properly lay out widow mines and still split my army around well. Any replay of the marine/hellbat style? I'm very interested.
Yes, demuslim does it alllll the time in TvZ. It's where I copied it from, and fell in love with it. If you want a few random mid masters replays, here's a few.
http://drop.sc/340232
http://drop.sc/340236 me playing on a friends name.
http://drop.sc/340238
It's pretty much just my standard, the 2 reaper 6 hellion pokes into widow mines until you get the 3 OC, double ebay, and 5 raxes, with 2 reactor factories.
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Two questions:
1) Any tips on how to engage a Collosi+Templar+Stalker+Zealot army assuming I got MMM+Ghosts+Vikings?
2) What am I aiming for when going mech vs Toss, like what composition and how do I defend 3 bases?
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Thanks jeffrey The marauders and keeping making widowmines make the build much safer  (innovation so greedy ;D)
Btw, when do you think a tank is required versus zerg allins?
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Daswollvieh i have tips for you, as im in GrandMaster top30
1) If you want win fight against this, you CANT DO 1a cause u will always lose ... if you want win that fight you need to find good place to fight, i mean cliff or large space to make flank or huge semicircle, cliff = to snipe few colossus. In this fights 200 vs 200 its all about POSITIONS of your and his army, using emp is pretty easy vs toss but its all about colossus and their huge damage, you can take 2 storms on your thorax hahaha it wont do much, remember - find good position
2) If you play mech, at the beggining and mid game its relatively easy with composition: hellbats, tanks (+ 4-6 medivacs with hellbats with you uload on his army while fighting - PRETTY STRONG) and in late game, you HAVE TO add 2 more barracks and make like 10++ ghosts to use EMP, veeeeeeeery important cause protoss usually goes for archon immortal, so with this composition hellbats tanks thors + some ghosts its not that hard
I Hope i helped you a little bit, now you have to practise, not 10 games but 100 or more to see effects
Regards, Mill.DieStar
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On June 05 2013 09:20 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 23:09 Persh wrote:How can I hold off a roach-ling/roach all-in arriving at roughly 9:20 when going innovation-style 3cc (with reactored hellions and early stim)? I tried making tanks, marauders and extra bunkers, but didn't succeed for me :/ Replay: http://drop.sc/340141 http://drop.sc/340231 here ya go senor. 2 reaper -> 6 hellion -> 3 OC with stim. For safety, get marauders until you can determine it's NOT a roach play. If it is, by the time they hit, you have 3-5 of them, with at least 4 widow mines. From what I saw from demuslims stream, when he faces roach attacks he just continues to mass widow mines, and widow mines are retardedly good against roach all ins. Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 04:58 targ wrote:On June 04 2013 07:23 iAmJeffReY wrote:On June 04 2013 06:56 govie wrote:On June 04 2013 06:48 Wrathsc2 wrote:On June 04 2013 06:24 azngamer828 wrote:
i dont know if anyone has asked this but i have a question regarding TvZ
1) i am watching demuslim's stream and he uses marine/medivac/hellbat compositions and later adding marauders for ultralisks... i noticed he doesnt use much mines (or as far as i see on stream haha) but my question is...
when do you actually use mines or use hellbats or both?
rephrase... on what composition of zerg do you use mines or hellbats or both?
hope that question is clear haha if u have good splits...by all means go with the hellbat composition. demuslism is going for that composition because it works really well against ling bling muta because he can split decently. However, widow mines are still better imo especially against z that use a shit ton of banes. I dont dare to say which is better : mines or hellbats. Demuslim uses hellbats instead of mines because he thinks the mines damages his troops to much. Thats what he said on stream. Ofcourse he also uses WM's but not like innovation dus everytime. Remember forgg in semifinal against stephano... thats why demu likes hellbats also. They can cost u games too. I go with that same demu style. Hellbats have brought my TvZ back from the brinks. 2 reapers -> 6 hellions -> 6-8 widow mines -> 2 reactor fac hellbat production. Once they go ultras, I get a third tech labbed fac, and get widow mines producing more WMs to hellbat ratio...since well...hellbats don't cut it against ultras. I can kite a lot better knowing I got a widow mine field coming up. I just use widow mines defensively against zerg, personally. I don't have the skill to properly lay out widow mines and still split my army around well. Any replay of the marine/hellbat style? I'm very interested. Yes, demuslim does it alllll the time in TvZ. It's where I copied it from, and fell in love with it. If you want a few random mid masters replays, here's a few. http://drop.sc/340232http://drop.sc/340236 me playing on a friends name. http://drop.sc/340238 It's pretty much just my standard, the 2 reaper 6 hellion pokes into widow mines until you get the 3 OC, double ebay, and 5 raxes, with 2 reactor factories.
Thanks alot jeffrey!
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Just played a standard Bio vs Mech against a Masters and I'm confused as to how I lost the game. I macro'd fairly well I think considering that he had his 3rd CC first and I had roughly the same amount of SCVs as him until when I started to lose the game. He did have the air advantage and my one and only drop was spotted so that sucked. Tried to deny his 3rd base but he seemed to see me going for it as well and defended easily. Then he just 1A me.
I guess I should've played more greedy and get that fast 3rd CC earlier? How should I have attacked him though? He had the Air Advantage so my Medivacs were useless. It would have been impossible for me to build my own Vikings to take out his Vikings.
http://drop.sc/340321
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On June 06 2013 03:23 geokilla wrote:Just played a standard Bio vs Mech against a Masters and I'm confused as to how I lost the game. I macro'd fairly well I think considering that he had his 3rd CC first and I had roughly the same amount of SCVs as him until when I started to lose the game. He did have the air advantage and my one and only drop was spotted so that sucked. Tried to deny his 3rd base but he seemed to see me going for it as well and defended easily. Then he just 1A me. I guess I should've played more greedy and get that fast 3rd CC earlier? How should I have attacked him though? He had the Air Advantage so my Medivacs were useless. It would have been impossible for me to build my own Vikings to take out his Vikings. http://drop.sc/340321
You need to drop much more. He is immobile. Make hime fear to go out and snipe armories,addons,factories...Trade 2-3 full medivacs for his 3rd, while expanding as hell.
Edit: After watching the replay, you can see Mech T taking his 3rd at same time as normal biotank and with almost 20 SCVs more.You were outmacroed and did some pretty bad decisions. After killing the scouting rax decided to drop....Why? You were scouted and should scan better before drop and come with more stuff. You cant engage mech(even unsieged) face to face if your army is not by far superior.Hellbats do a lot of splash and are buffer for the tanks from behind. After failing the drop you tried to siege his 3rd,but he was there before.You need to drop his main to make him move and drop the 3rd at same time.You are the one to have map control and he just caught you out of position in every engagement! Dont stop dropping and move arround trying to catch him unsieged and even try to drop your army on the top of his sieged tanks avoiding the hellbats. This will be imposible if he got too many vikings,but you must try while expanding all arround the map.
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EPT
