EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 90
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poultrypouch
United Kingdom33 Posts
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
Question(s) In TvZ when I move out after defending some sort of roach or ling bane busts effectively (ie only some workers lost) I have trouble identifying if the Z went back to droning or is continuing to attack, so I often opt to wait. If I do and Z went for drones I could have been harassing whereas if I do move out to harass and Z went for more sling bane and I don't notice in time, I tend to get surrounded and die. I've been getting a viking early to kill ovls before reactor'd sp, is this a good way to fly around and see what's up? I don't usually maintain my hellions after some sort of attempted bust so I can't keep map control. The other problem I'm facing is vs mutas. I'll be pressuring vs a defensive Z and pull back a bit once mutas hit to ensure I have turrets but that leaves room for the Z to attack while I don't have map control, often I'll be poorly positioned or unburrowed because I don't see the ling/bane coming. Should I not be reacting to mutas by backing off a bit with my bio mine and keep my forward position + map control? Can I on 3 + base economy go for slightly less bio but additional factories for tank+thor while remaining mobile with marine+medivac? (just curious, saw a WCS AM game today, star station where Hyun (i think) went bio but transitioned into 2-3 fact tank with a few thors in the mid/late game) Finally, can I go pure bio vs roach hydra? I'll get a few defensive tanks vs heavy roach so I don't die to 2-2 timings but can I cut out tanks in favor of more marauders? | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On June 02 2013 00:30 Aquila- wrote: Thanks, I should get medivacs anyway for healing and mobility. I also have to try out if enough hellbats and medivacs can outheal the locusts but I dont think they will^^ Nope you can't outheal because locusts have insane dps - but you should drop the hellbats ontop of the swarmhosts when their locusts aren't near them anyway so that doesn't matter. | ||
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BattleWhisk
United Kingdom6 Posts
So lots of practice is great and all and I am definitely improving my macro, and am sort of following FilterSC's videos to help me improve. The thing is I was doing the 1 rax FE style from his WoL tutorial, but from what I've felt so far (and read on the first page here) that isn't the best due to the high number of builds that punish it. In his HoTS videos he goes reaper expand, which I'm trying, but I'm failing even more because of the multi-tasking requirements the reaper places on me. I get that it's just a late scout and I'm not trying to use it to harrass, but because it's later they have enough units for it to be very difficult to keep alive long enough to get any decent information and I feel as though I lack units to deal with early pressure (could likely be poor macro, mind). Anyway, my real question is whether it's worth me sticking to this reaper expand and struggle through, losing a fair amount of games and force myself to get better at control and multi-tasking and maybe just put a bunker down out of precaution to deal with early pressure? Or the other option is to go back to 1 rax FE WoL style and just improve my macro enough to push on through and learn other builds from then on. Or should I ignore both of these builds completely and learn something different? I want to avoid multiple builds as in one for each matchup for at least another week if at all possible. Has HoTS changed too much about the game for one build to be safe in all matchups now? I don't enjoy going mech for some reason, so I'd rather avoid that if at all possible. | ||
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Sprite825
France57 Posts
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SRGrasshopper
6 Posts
What's the best way to defend 8-10 minute roach pushes after going CC first? I'm currently using Flash's CC First Hellion Aggression, transitioning into bio-mine for the most part. They seem to hit just as my production is coming online but before I've amassed any decent army size. I can't scout the roach warren with a reaper because CC first doesn't allow for early gas My hellions can seize map control easily enough, but when I see roaches I can't be sure whether he's committing to a timing or just pumping 2-3 to stave off my hellions. I hesitate to insta build a tank as that greatly slows my mine production. Should mines (production started after 4-6 hellions/when I see roaches) + rines in bunkers (maybe a marauder) be able to hold this off alone? We're talking some serious roach numbers here, usually followed up by either more roaches or a speedling flood into my nat. Is there a particular response to 2 base zerg aggression in general? P.S It's not that this push necessarily always kills me, but it often puts me far enough behind that I can't keep up in the mid-game, leaving me completely sunk when Ultra's eventually pop. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 02 2013 20:30 BattleWhisk wrote: Hi, I'm silver league and fairly terrible at the game (why else would I be in silver). I finally have enough spare time to practice a lot, though and my aim is to get to platinum level (or at least close) within 3 weeks (I'm able to play 30 ish games a day right now). So lots of practice is great and all and I am definitely improving my macro, and am sort of following FilterSC's videos to help me improve. The thing is I was doing the 1 rax FE style from his WoL tutorial, but from what I've felt so far (and read on the first page here) that isn't the best due to the high number of builds that punish it. In his HoTS videos he goes reaper expand, which I'm trying, but I'm failing even more because of the multi-tasking requirements the reaper places on me. I get that it's just a late scout and I'm not trying to use it to harrass, but because it's later they have enough units for it to be very difficult to keep alive long enough to get any decent information and I feel as though I lack units to deal with early pressure (could likely be poor macro, mind). Anyway, my real question is whether it's worth me sticking to this reaper expand and struggle through, losing a fair amount of games and force myself to get better at control and multi-tasking and maybe just put a bunker down out of precaution to deal with early pressure? Or the other option is to go back to 1 rax FE WoL style and just improve my macro enough to push on through and learn other builds from then on. Or should I ignore both of these builds completely and learn something different? I want to avoid multiple builds as in one for each matchup for at least another week if at all possible. Has HoTS changed too much about the game for one build to be safe in all matchups now? I don't enjoy going mech for some reason, so I'd rather avoid that if at all possible. A build doesnt make u loose games, execution of your build does. I was told that macro+scouting gets u in masters, without any supersick micro at all. I would not focus on micro/multitasking in sliver/gold/plat but only : 1. macro; 2. scouting; 3. your reaction to what u have scouted (with whatever build u prefer). Reaperexpand is usefull for scouting what ur opponent is up too and pretty standard. If u look at your replays and see your macro is lacking because of ur early reapermicro, then maybe it isnt a good choice to harras with the reaper much (because the damage to your infrastructure and supply is higher then the damage dealt which will snowball u later on in the game). U can still use 1 suicidereaper for scouting ofcourse. | ||
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Emporium
England162 Posts
On June 02 2013 20:30 BattleWhisk wrote: Hi, I'm silver league and fairly terrible at the game (why else would I be in silver). I finally have enough spare time to practice a lot, though and my aim is to get to platinum level (or at least close) within 3 weeks (I'm able to play 30 ish games a day right now). So lots of practice is great and all and I am definitely improving my macro, and am sort of following FilterSC's videos to help me improve. The thing is I was doing the 1 rax FE style from his WoL tutorial, but from what I've felt so far (and read on the first page here) that isn't the best due to the high number of builds that punish it. In his HoTS videos he goes reaper expand, which I'm trying, but I'm failing even more because of the multi-tasking requirements the reaper places on me. I get that it's just a late scout and I'm not trying to use it to harrass, but because it's later they have enough units for it to be very difficult to keep alive long enough to get any decent information and I feel as though I lack units to deal with early pressure (could likely be poor macro, mind). Anyway, my real question is whether it's worth me sticking to this reaper expand and struggle through, losing a fair amount of games and force myself to get better at control and multi-tasking and maybe just put a bunker down out of precaution to deal with early pressure? Or the other option is to go back to 1 rax FE WoL style and just improve my macro enough to push on through and learn other builds from then on. Or should I ignore both of these builds completely and learn something different? I want to avoid multiple builds as in one for each matchup for at least another week if at all possible. Has HoTS changed too much about the game for one build to be safe in all matchups now? I don't enjoy going mech for some reason, so I'd rather avoid that if at all possible. I would suggest that you a bunker down at the level your playing at, as you are correct in suggesting that your micro won't be good enough to hold off early aggro, don't underestimate bunkers, they are really good in all formats of the game, early, mid and late. Again at the level your playing 1 safe build would/should be sufficient at all the MU's, as long as you scout well enough, then you should be able to react off of it, to try and defend any pressure, or become more greedy from what you scout. | ||
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BattleWhisk
United Kingdom6 Posts
On June 02 2013 21:01 govie wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 02 2013 20:30 BattleWhisk wrote: Hi, I'm silver league and fairly terrible at the game (why else would I be in silver). I finally have enough spare time to practice a lot, though and my aim is to get to platinum level (or at least close) within 3 weeks (I'm able to play 30 ish games a day right now). So lots of practice is great and all and I am definitely improving my macro, and am sort of following FilterSC's videos to help me improve. The thing is I was doing the 1 rax FE style from his WoL tutorial, but from what I've felt so far (and read on the first page here) that isn't the best due to the high number of builds that punish it. In his HoTS videos he goes reaper expand, which I'm trying, but I'm failing even more because of the multi-tasking requirements the reaper places on me. I get that it's just a late scout and I'm not trying to use it to harrass, but because it's later they have enough units for it to be very difficult to keep alive long enough to get any decent information and I feel as though I lack units to deal with early pressure (could likely be poor macro, mind). Anyway, my real question is whether it's worth me sticking to this reaper expand and struggle through, losing a fair amount of games and force myself to get better at control and multi-tasking and maybe just put a bunker down out of precaution to deal with early pressure? Or the other option is to go back to 1 rax FE WoL style and just improve my macro enough to push on through and learn other builds from then on. Or should I ignore both of these builds completely and learn something different? I want to avoid multiple builds as in one for each matchup for at least another week if at all possible. Has HoTS changed too much about the game for one build to be safe in all matchups now? I don't enjoy going mech for some reason, so I'd rather avoid that if at all possible. A build doesnt make u loose games, execution of your build does. I was told that macro+scouting gets u in masters, without any supersick micro at all. I would not focus on micro/multitasking but only : 1. macro; 2. scouting; 3. your reaction to what u have scouted (with whatever build u prefer). Reaperexpand is usefull for scouting what ur opponent is up too and pretty standard. If u look at your replays and see your macro is lacking because of ur early reapermicro, then maybe it isnt a good choice to harras with the reaper much (because the damage to your infrastructure and supply is higher then the damage dealt which will snowball u later on in the game). U can still use 1 suicidereaper for scouting ofcourse. Thanks for replying. I wasn't so much blaming the build for my losses, I'm well aware that my execution is lacking. It's just that some builds are weaker at certain points and my lack of execution will only exacerbate that kind of thing. I haven't really been trying to harass with my reaper, just trying to keep it alive. I am definitely focussing on macro and reacting to scouting info, so hopefully it's just a matter of practising more. Thanks for the advice. On June 02 2013 21:01 Emporium wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 02 2013 20:30 BattleWhisk wrote: Hi, I'm silver league and fairly terrible at the game (why else would I be in silver). I finally have enough spare time to practice a lot, though and my aim is to get to platinum level (or at least close) within 3 weeks (I'm able to play 30 ish games a day right now). So lots of practice is great and all and I am definitely improving my macro, and am sort of following FilterSC's videos to help me improve. The thing is I was doing the 1 rax FE style from his WoL tutorial, but from what I've felt so far (and read on the first page here) that isn't the best due to the high number of builds that punish it. In his HoTS videos he goes reaper expand, which I'm trying, but I'm failing even more because of the multi-tasking requirements the reaper places on me. I get that it's just a late scout and I'm not trying to use it to harrass, but because it's later they have enough units for it to be very difficult to keep alive long enough to get any decent information and I feel as though I lack units to deal with early pressure (could likely be poor macro, mind). Anyway, my real question is whether it's worth me sticking to this reaper expand and struggle through, losing a fair amount of games and force myself to get better at control and multi-tasking and maybe just put a bunker down out of precaution to deal with early pressure? Or the other option is to go back to 1 rax FE WoL style and just improve my macro enough to push on through and learn other builds from then on. Or should I ignore both of these builds completely and learn something different? I want to avoid multiple builds as in one for each matchup for at least another week if at all possible. Has HoTS changed too much about the game for one build to be safe in all matchups now? I don't enjoy going mech for some reason, so I'd rather avoid that if at all possible. I would suggest that you a bunker down at the level your playing at, as you are correct in suggesting that your micro won't be good enough to hold off early aggro, don't underestimate bunkers, they are really good in all formats of the game, early, mid and late. Again at the level your playing 1 safe build would/should be sufficient at all the MU's, as long as you scout well enough, then you should be able to react off of it, to try and defend any pressure, or become more greedy from what you scout. Okeydoke, that's good to know, thank you. Thanks to both of you for your advice, I'd better just get back to it and keep on practising. 1 rax reaper expand it is! | ||
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wag_
88 Posts
On June 02 2013 20:57 SRGrasshopper wrote: Plat Terran here. What's the best way to defend 8-10 minute roach pushes after going CC first? I'm currently using Flash's CC First Hellion Aggression, transitioning into bio-mine for the most part. They seem to hit just as my production is coming online but before I've amassed any decent army size. I can't scout the roach warren with a reaper because CC first doesn't allow for early gas My hellions can seize map control easily enough, but when I see roaches I can't be sure whether he's committing to a timing or just pumping 2-3 to stave off my hellions. I hesitate to insta build a tank as that greatly slows my mine production. Should mines (production started after 4-6 hellions/when I see roaches) + rines in bunkers (maybe a marauder) be able to hold this off alone? We're talking some serious roach numbers here, usually followed up by either more roaches or a speedling flood into my nat. Is there a particular response to 2 base zerg aggression in general? P.S It's not that this push necessarily always kills me, but it often puts me far enough behind that I can't keep up in the mid-game, leaving me completely sunk when Ultra's eventually pop. Roach pushes are easy to defend (except roach-banelings pushs) : Knowing it's coming : - When you put the techlab on your first rax, get 1-2 marauders, they will help you defend. - Scout if he doesn't mine more than 100 gas, if he mines more than 100, he will do something such as roach or banelings aggressions. Don't over-react to this, cause he can just bait you and do nothing, but be alerted that there might be something up. Also if don't mines more that 100 gas, it doesn't necessary means he won't do anything, but you know it's not gonna be early banes. - Keep your hellions in front of his base without loosing them, hellions outrun roach, so you can keep poking the roach army to see if they are more than 3. If it's more than 3, he will attack you. Defending it : - Get mines in front of your bunker - Put scvs on autorepair behind the bunker - And the most important part : Keep producing mines/marauders/marines while he is attacking so the reinforcement comes into the fight asap. If you stop producing, he might overhelm you. If the bunker break : - Attack the roachs with your scvs, marines/marauders behind them. - Get another bunker to complete the wall and prevent speedlings follow-ups. | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
One thing to remember is that if you are going a very typical 3CC build, you should never tap out unless he still has lots of units left on top of your production. Zergs give up a lot of things when they try to bust you early: fast Lair, upgrades, mining third base, etc. This means that assuming you can defend first one, then a second wave, your advantage will start getting exponentially larger as more and more upgrades kick in and the Zerg has to let up in order to work on those things he was ignoring before. A typical game might go: you go Reaper into 3CC Hellions + 2x Ebay, he busts you off 2 bases with Roach/Baneling, and when the dust settles you have 11 SCVs with a few units to defend and Mines coming out to keep up the defense. Now what happens from this point is that your 1/1 (which you already started), finishes and your units become more efficient versus his, all the while your CCs are pumping like mad, plus you have triple mules. You then start 2/2 way before he does, prepare for the inevitable Mutalisk transition (he has to keep you in your base in order to survive), and you should win with a 130-150 supply 2/2 push combined with drop play and smart Mine positioning. | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 03 2013 02:32 Aveng3r wrote: I just played a tvt where the guy went nothing but marines and ravens, with a few tanks. he spammed seeker missles to shred my tank lines and basically decimated my army. I was going marine tank and eventually got to battlecruiser viking marine tank but he still crushed right through. I just couldnt get away from the missles in time even when I went into full retreat when I saw that I was being targeted. Any suggestions here? show replay, because i think ur problems started before the ravens came. | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
On June 03 2013 04:12 govie wrote: show replay, because i think ur problems started before the ravens came. http://drop.sc/339819 okay there it is. I think maybe I should have just killed him before he got to the critical raven count but I took my third faster than him and even managed to kill his third shortly after he landed it. not sure where I went wrong after that. @kollin thats not what I meant | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On June 02 2013 20:30 BattleWhisk wrote: Hi, I'm silver league and fairly terrible at the game (why else would I be in silver). I finally have enough spare time to practice a lot, though and my aim is to get to platinum level (or at least close) within 3 weeks (I'm able to play 30 ish games a day right now). So lots of practice is great and all and I am definitely improving my macro, and am sort of following FilterSC's videos to help me improve. The thing is I was doing the 1 rax FE style from his WoL tutorial, but from what I've felt so far (and read on the first page here) that isn't the best due to the high number of builds that punish it. In his HoTS videos he goes reaper expand, which I'm trying, but I'm failing even more because of the multi-tasking requirements the reaper places on me. I get that it's just a late scout and I'm not trying to use it to harrass, but because it's later they have enough units for it to be very difficult to keep alive long enough to get any decent information and I feel as though I lack units to deal with early pressure (could likely be poor macro, mind). Anyway, my real question is whether it's worth me sticking to this reaper expand and struggle through, losing a fair amount of games and force myself to get better at control and multi-tasking and maybe just put a bunker down out of precaution to deal with early pressure? Or the other option is to go back to 1 rax FE WoL style and just improve my macro enough to push on through and learn other builds from then on. Or should I ignore both of these builds completely and learn something different? I want to avoid multiple builds as in one for each matchup for at least another week if at all possible. Has HoTS changed too much about the game for one build to be safe in all matchups now? I don't enjoy going mech for some reason, so I'd rather avoid that if at all possible. Stick with reaper FE, but don't feel obligated to get worker kills with them. Try to just us them for scouting and save the harass micro for when you feel more comfortable with your multitasking. Just focus on scouting at the right time to uncover any shenanigans. For example: TvP: @ 4 mins or so, you can figure out if a stargate is proxied. At 5:30 you can see blink researching or a dark shrine warping in. TvZ: 5:30 or a littler earlier, you can see if there's a roach warren. | ||
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teuthida
United States104 Posts
On June 03 2013 10:13 Smackzilla wrote: Stick with reaper FE, but don't feel obligated to get worker kills with them. Try to just us them for scouting and save the harass micro for when you feel more comfortable with your multitasking. Just focus on scouting at the right time to uncover any shenanigans. For example: TvP: @ 4 mins or so, you can figure out if a stargate is proxied. At 5:30 you can see blink researching or a dark shrine warping in. TvZ: 5:30 or a littler earlier, you can see if there's a roach warren. Agreed with this, I do a reaper opening in all match ups. I don't try to micro harass all too much, just keep your reaper alive and use it to scout their base a couple of times if possible. It can really save you, plus teaches you better map awareness / control. For TvT you can also have the reaper in your base to fend off the opponent's reaper if they are going for reaper scout / harass. | ||
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Frij
Canada9 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On June 03 2013 10:33 Frij wrote: In TvZ, what should I be spending my gas on lategame? I just watched select's stream and he seemed to be stuck in the midgame of a TvZ as while his opponent was on 4+ base and he was on 4 base, he had a gas bank of ~3k and the opponent was still muta-ling-bane. Should I be doing something else with that gas if I was in that position? less scv in gas or build more for minerals. It is the terran curse, hard to keep low after 15 min  I would use it to build 4 starports with techlab and yamatobuilding+researches from techlab for airterran... to use maybe later if airterran is needed, that gaspile will evaporate really fast when going airterran and it takes a while, so i preemtive build 4 starport with techlab, but dont know if the pros do that. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On June 03 2013 10:33 Frij wrote: In TvZ, what should I be spending my gas on lategame? I just watched select's stream and he seemed to be stuck in the midgame of a TvZ as while his opponent was on 4+ base and he was on 4 base, he had a gas bank of ~3k and the opponent was still muta-ling-bane. Should I be doing something else with that gas if I was in that position? A second armory, more mech upgrades, the planetary and building armour upgrades, some thors mixed into your bio mine army isn't bad as they can tank alot of banes and can also land a few money volleys on mutas if they are not careful, like mentioned above extra star ports as well as researching cloak/raven upgrades. These can also be useful for replacing Medivacs really quickly. | ||
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