EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 60
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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bvb
22 Posts
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stoppersur
29 Posts
On April 23 2013 12:40 bvb wrote: In TvP, how the hell do I fight against mass templars w/ chargelots? I'll have plenty of ghosts but before i can EMP or snipe them off, I will literally lose my entire army in less than 3 seconds to storm. The room for error in micro is razor thin and I lose almost every TvP after the ~20 min mark because of templars. How should I position my army? I have a mostly marine army (because marauders suck against chargelots) and all the P needs is a few good storms and its over. I've watched replays and a 200 vs 200 supply battle will end around 100 vs 180 it's ridiculous I know exactly what you mean. TvP late game is insanely tough for terran. My approach is don't let them have a late game. Try to do as much damage as possible before they got 2 AOE tech and deny his 3rd. Remember protoss cannot support two AOE tech with 2 base economy. If chargelots bother you, you could try adding hellbats into your team comp. but even then, you still need to dodge storm and have better micro than protoss in general. | ||
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bvb
22 Posts
On April 23 2013 13:00 stoppersur wrote: I know exactly what you mean. TvP late game is insanely tough for terran. My approach is don't let them have a late game. Try to do as much damage as possible before they got 2 AOE tech and deny his 3rd. Remember protoss cannot support two AOE tech with 2 base economy. If chargelots bother you, you could try adding hellbats into your team comp. but even then, you still need to dodge storm and have better micro than protoss in general. Here is a replay of a usual TvP of mine (mid-masters) http://drop.sc/326801 I out-macroed the opponent and I was almost constantly maxed out, but when it came down to the battles, I would always lose horrendously. The Units Lost tab showed that I lost 2x more at least, which can indicate a micro problem, but even still, I don't think I should be losing THIS badly. Any tips? | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
A) Why don't people make an extra rax or 2 and float them for vision in TvZ? B) I've been opening cc first > reactor hellion > double ups > raven > 2/2 > lots of rax, pressure, later third, with little / no fact support, then drop all my extra gas into 3 factories, pumping mines/tanks/thors/hellbats to support. I like how I can harass, get upgrades then add a ton of production at once, are there any builds that work like that in TvP ? I know I can open 111 in TvT, expand and then add a bunch of rax behind marine/hellion/banshee pressure, but I think that I'm still progressively adding on production. I've heard the best way to manage production in TvP is 1 rax/fact expand > 2 more rax, 2 tec/1react, double ebay + starport behind mine/marine pressure/defense, get a third or add 2 more rax. When exactly should I have all my rax producing, and when should I be looking to drop my third or additional barracks? Also, when I kite stuff, I've been using my whole army on a hotkey, using the stop command, but when I do this, my medivacs don't heal while under the move command, how do I deal with this? | ||
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rice_devOurer
United States773 Posts
On April 23 2013 14:27 S7EFEN wrote: Also, when I kite stuff, I've been using my whole army on a hotkey, using the stop command, but when I do this, my medivacs don't heal while under the move command, how do I deal with this? Hmm. How about you use the f2 key for whole army, and ur army hotkey for just your...infantry? | ||
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Tactical
United States77 Posts
On April 23 2013 15:11 rice_devOurer wrote: Hmm. How about you use the f2 key for whole army, and ur army hotkey for just your...infantry? Because often times you have drops in multiple locations at once, along with some units at home for defending harrassment and the select all army button mostly just fucks everything up. I think most people have their medevacs attack moved onto their bio and you just micro them behind your army so that they dont get picked off to stalkers, either on a seperate hotkey, or they micro with control clicking their bio so that the medevacs arent affected. Also using stop command with your whole army is usually a bad idea, I think most people kite by moving their army back and then stop commanding just the units in the front/in range to pick off their forward units. Otherwise it ends up in a clusterfuck if they get one aoe attack on your army while youre kiting. | ||
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FetTerBender
Germany1393 Posts
On April 23 2013 14:27 S7EFEN wrote: Few questions, considering switching to T. A) Why don't people make an extra rax or 2 and float them for vision in TvZ? B) I've been opening cc first > reactor hellion > double ups > raven > 2/2 > lots of rax, pressure, later third, with little / no fact support, then drop all my extra gas into 3 factories, pumping mines/tanks/thors/hellbats to support. I like how I can harass, get upgrades then add a ton of production at once, are there any builds that work like that in TvP ? I know I can open 111 in TvT, expand and then add a bunch of rax behind marine/hellion/banshee pressure, but I think that I'm still progressively adding on production. I've heard the best way to manage production in TvP is 1 rax/fact expand > 2 more rax, 2 tec/1react, double ebay + starport behind mine/marine pressure/defense, get a third or add 2 more rax. When exactly should I have all my rax producing, and when should I be looking to drop my third or additional barracks? Also, when I kite stuff, I've been using my whole army on a hotkey, using the stop command, but when I do this, my medivacs don't heal while under the move command, how do I deal with this? A) To be able to squeeze out early reapers / marines for pressure without waiting for reactor. The flying rax afterwards is a great scout because a queen needs ~2 minutes to kill a Rax solo. So you can scout the tech and detect possible all-ins. B) Whew. To complicated for a short answer imho - generally i like to go 1/1/1 and throw down my rax directly afterwards, because i like to have my bio strong in the early midgame. Attack move the whole army to the location where you want to stutter step to, deselect only the medivacs, (ctrl + shift +click on one in the control group), commence healed stutterstepping. | ||
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stoppersur
29 Posts
Is there any suggestion for marine:marauder ratio in different leagues as a reference.? | ||
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Chase123
Canada23 Posts
I find i take away more damage than i should from a swell of lings if i open reaper which i always do. I only faced zergs going pool before hatch a few times but its very annoying | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On April 23 2013 18:15 Chase123 wrote: What is the best response to seeing a zerg has gone gas before expand when opening reaper(my scout)? I find i take away more damage than i should from a swell of lings if i open reaper which i always do. I only faced zergs going pool before hatch a few times but its very annoying The things you need to be aware of when you see this are: 1) he sacrificed economy for this, good for you. 2) he will have earlier speed, so you should retreat your reapers earlier and be safer with your expansion, possibly delaying moving scvs there until you have some hellions. Zergs like to do these speedling attacks when opening early speed. 3) many zergs at higher levels will try to sneak a couple of lings early on to delay your command center, if you scout an early pool you may want to rally you second reaper to your expansion or send him checking around the map for these lings as this delay in your cc can be very annoying and equalize/ give the zerg an advantage in economy. 4) because of the earlier gas there is the possibility of earlier allins, be wary and scout his gas mining with your reaper, or scan if need be - these allins will be harder to stop because they're earlier. | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On April 23 2013 17:01 stoppersur wrote: In TvZ, is it theoretically, if someone has perfect micro no marauder is needed? In other words, is it the better the micro, the less marauder one need to build? Is there any suggestion for marine:marauder ratio in different leagues as a reference.? I would say the answer is yes, if your splits are extremely good marines are more dps than marauders and they can shoot air which counters mutas well. The exception is ultras and infestors. Marauders are necessary to take down ultras and they're excellent at slowing and sniping infestors. This is why you see Innovation for example sticking to marines for longer during his 5-rax macro until adding 3 more rax, and starting marauder production in anticipation of the ultra/infestor switch. Also if you make too many marauders early on you're in risk of being left with only rauders vs muta-ling in which case the mutas clean you up. | ||
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SgtJoKeR
Canada37 Posts
On April 23 2013 12:09 padfoota wrote: Its a really...interesting style to go for that no doubt requires high precision decision making.... Its definetely a great fallback plan when your all in doesnt work I guess Hello! Could you guys tell me what this still is all about? How does he open , what makes it so out of the ordinary? | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On April 23 2013 20:02 SgtJoKeR wrote: Hello! Could you guys tell me what this still is all about? How does he open , what makes it so out of the ordinary? Sounds like what should be standard TvP late game to me. Swapping a lot of your bio for ghosts and focusing more on Vikings instead of medivacs for air. This is because these two units counter his biggest damage dealers in HT and Colossi. I am sure it is mentioned in the OP this style of late game follow up. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On April 23 2013 12:40 bvb wrote: In TvP, how the hell do I fight against mass templars w/ chargelots? I'll have plenty of ghosts but before i can EMP or snipe them off, I will literally lose my entire army in less than 3 seconds to storm. The room for error in micro is razor thin and I lose almost every TvP after the ~20 min mark because of templars. How should I position my army? I have a mostly marine army (because marauders suck against chargelots) and all the P needs is a few good storms and its over. I've watched replays and a 200 vs 200 supply battle will end around 100 vs 180 it's ridiculous Before the engagement try to snipe the observer(s) that are with his army with your Vikings, assuming you have some left from mid game. Then use your cloak ghosts to snipe and/or get blanket EMPs off. Thorzain is particularly good at this and has great ghost control in general. | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
Right now, i build them until i am maxed the first time and then i will add more orbitals and replace the scvs with more army. but when i trade constantly, ill end up with 85 workers sometimes which is way too much. | ||
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Seither
Australia11 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On April 23 2013 20:30 Marathi wrote: Sounds like what should be standard TvP late game to me. Swapping a lot of your bio for ghosts and focusing more on Vikings instead of medivacs for air. This is because these two units counter his biggest damage dealers in HT and Colossi. I am sure it is mentioned in the OP this style of late game follow up. Really clever. who needs medivacs when they cant attack ur ghosts! Ghost/viking it is!  | ||
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Savage88
Germany132 Posts
My micro is just too bad to split units and burrow widowmines all over the place in battle. Whats the easiest style to win vs Zerg? Just play Marine/Tank again? | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On April 23 2013 22:23 Savage88 wrote: I had ~65-70% winrate in TvZ back in WoL with Marine/Tank. Now its 33% -_-. This widowmine Bio-Style is just not my style. I tried mech, but Mech is even worse. I get roflstomped by either muta or swarmhosts. My micro is just too bad to split units and burrow widowmines all over the place in battle. Whats the easiest style to win vs Zerg? Just play Marine/Tank again? Use hellbats :D Watch some demuslim...I like his tvz style. I dont like mines either and really wanted to incorporate hellbats into them because +3 hellbats can one shot any upgraded lings. There was a small discussion back in page 58 for it. On April 23 2013 20:30 Marathi wrote: Sounds like what should be standard TvP late game to me. Swapping a lot of your bio for ghosts and focusing more on Vikings instead of medivacs for air. This is because these two units counter his biggest damage dealers in HT and Colossi. I am sure it is mentioned in the OP this style of late game follow up. Its just so ridiculously hard to use since the force actually becomes rather immobile vs protoss drops and chargelot runbys....your units rely heavily on the protoss detection being sniped too, and losing any of the ghosts is just terrible.. Not to mention getting to the point where you can easily make a ton of ghosts... Its basically as if the roles are reversed....protoss becomes the one constantly harrassing and trying to push while avoiding spellcasters, while terran is the one constantly defending while trying to catch the protoss off guard....not something a normal terran player can get used to easily | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
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