|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On April 23 2013 18:15 Chase123 wrote:
What is the best response to seeing a zerg has gone gas before expand when opening reaper(my scout)?
I find i take away more damage than i should from a swell of lings if i open reaper which i always do.
I only faced zergs going pool before hatch a few times but its very annoying
for me, i do 1 reaper only and go for factory hellions.
I also expand inside my base, and can go either for fast 3rd cc, or banshee (WOL STYLE)
It's important to save your reaper, so you can use him to scout if he's going baneling all in.
You can see that too if he keeps to get his gas after speed started.
make sure to make more hellions than usual,
The banshee one is great because you can either use it to defend against late bling bust or roach push, and also for denying his late 3rd.
|
On April 23 2013 21:15 graNite wrote:
I need a general rule or tip on how to not build too many workers.
Right now, i build them until i am maxed the first time and then i will add more orbitals and replace the scvs with more army.
but when i trade constantly, ill end up with 85 workers sometimes which is way too much.
Kill your own workers if you make too many.
|
On April 23 2013 22:44 Thor.Rush wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 21:15 graNite wrote:
I need a general rule or tip on how to not build too many workers.
Right now, i build them until i am maxed the first time and then i will add more orbitals and replace the scvs with more army.
but when i trade constantly, ill end up with 85 workers sometimes which is way too much. Kill your own workers if you make too many.
the question is so obsolete, its like asking "i build too many maurauder and not enough marines, is there a trick to build more marines?"
just remember not to build as much. display worker numbers in oc should help aswell
if ur on 3 base 16/16/16 on minerals should be enough.
|
On April 23 2013 08:41 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 08:34 zhurai wrote:On April 23 2013 04:15 Infinite976 wrote:
TheDwf: Are there any viable (one or two base) All-Ins for each matchup?
I enjoy doing 8-8-8 in TvT, but am curious if there are any other HoTS flavored all-ins worth mentioning that you may know of? Thanks in advance! read the op first? Err... There is precisely nothing in the OP about all-ins, hence why he asks. I'm afraid whoever reported this poor guy got him unfairly warned. I'll answer the posts tomorrow.
Thanks Dwf! Looking forward to this..
|
On April 22 2013 02:42 FirstGear wrote:I have no idea if its actually viable, but demuslim seems to favour a marine hellbat composition tvz vs ling bane on his stream when I've been watching. I don't know if he was just experimenting though. I quickly clicked through the VODS I was last watching for examples: http://www.twitch.tv/demuslim/b/390478259 - game being played about 35 mins in, game 49 mins in & the last game that continues onto the next broadcast (http://www.twitch.tv/demuslim/b/390511822 see 15 seconds in) i think. Note times are example of heavy hellbat use with marines tvz rather than when the game starts. On an unrelated note, TheDwf the work you do on this thread is amazing. Its incredibly helpful, thanks :-)
Thanks.
I watched the VODs and I am not convinced by this Marines/Hellbats thing. You lack the "critical ranged AoE threshold" which gives Zerg nightmares when too many Mines (or Tanks) are on the field, and since Hellbats are melee-like units they're not helpful against Banelings (plus they don't one-shot Zerglings before +3 attack mech, by which time Zerg should be on Hive anyway). Increased strain will thus be put on the shoulder of Marines to deal with Zerg's army, especially as you're spending a third of your income to build units that don't help against mass Banelings/Mutalisks (Tanks don't shoot air either, but their ability to kill Banelings from afar makes it so more Marines remain to fight large Mutalisks fleet). Additionally, Hellbats don't have Stim, so you will inevitably perform inferior splits with them. In the Akilon Wastes game, Stephano had no troubles building a commanding lead despite having average engagements and fighting offcreep. If Zerg doesn't lead the charge with his Zerglings right into the Hellbats wall I don't see this having much chances against an army with 15+ Mutalisks and 25+ Banelings on creep.
On April 22 2013 03:38 iAmJeffReY wrote:
I think it's so strong because you don't have to invest in tunneling claws, so you are producing another unit per cycle.
You're not forced to upgrade Drilling claws when playing 4M, playing with 2 reactor Factories to produce rounds of 4 Mines is possible (e. g. Flash played this way in all his Code S matches).
On April 22 2013 07:44 4Servy wrote:
Because I replied to the question the two guys above asked, not the OP. A 1 rax > Fe obviously isnt using a gas reactor expand or a reaper expand.
Anyway miss understandings happen but there is no need to behaive like a tool as all I did was trying to help.
Mutual misunderstanding indeed. 1 rax FE technically means fast expanding off 1 rax, and this applies to Reaper expands or the dual Marine reactor expand. In WoL, 1 rax FE would mean gasless more than 98% of the time, but in HotS getting a gas when expanding off 1 rax is the standard, hence why I assumed you were talking about them.
On April 23 2013 04:15 Infinite976 wrote:
TheDwf: Are there any viable (one or two base) All-Ins for each matchup?
I enjoy doing 8-8-8 in TvT, but am curious if there are any other HoTS flavored all-ins worth mentioning that you may know of? Thanks in advance!
User was warned for this post
Honestly there is not much left, HotS is very unfriendly towards all-ins and many of the things below are gimmicks, but well.
TvT
1-base
- Marines/Tanks/air (Banshees or Vikings/Raven) pushes can still work against certain build orders, but it's a complete coinflip as any fast expand into 1-1-1 getting Tanks will stop you dead and remain convincingly ahead (jjakji vs MarineKing, Cloud Kingdom & Akilon Wastes, MLG).
- [Gimmick.] Dual Hellbats drops can net you some free wins too if your opponent don't know how to defend them or use bad/greedy builds.
- [Gimmick.] 8-8-8-8 or 8-8-8-1X.
- Proxy 11/11 is unreliable but can work against certain build orders skipping SCV scout.
2-bases
- In Marines/Tanks wars, some kind of 5 rax doomdrop. You can adapt from Bomber vs Taeja, Newkirk City & Cloud Kingdom, MLG.
- Mech can also 2-bases all-in (GuMiho vs Dream, Icarus, GSTL) against bio but it really depends on the build orders as you have to rule out the doomdrop basetrade option.
TvZ
1-base
- Proxy 11/11 with 7-9 SCVs pulled.
- [Gimmick.] 8-8-8-8.
2-bases
- [Gimmick.] Some kind of heavy harass build into 5 rax bio all-in (GuMiho vs HyuN, Akilon Wastes, GSL) or 4 fact mech all-in (Maru vs Bboong, Atlas, GSL doesn't really correspond but comes close). Heavy harass build = Hellbats drops or agressive Hellions/Banshees (at least 10/2). Thorougly depends on what happens with your harass and if Zerg tries to scout or not your lack of third.
- [Gimmick.] 3 fact BFH all-in. Last vs Life, Whirlwind & Cloud Kingdom, MLG. Horrible game against Roaches, but can give you free wins against blind (no Overlord sacrifice) Speedlings play.
TvP
1-base
- Proxy 11/11 with 7-9 SCVs pulled. The proxy ↔ main distance has to be very short, ~15 seconds max. You have to build a Bunker in the range of the Nexus and win or inflict crippling damage before ~5'30 (i. e. around the time the MSC has 100 energy for PO).
- [Gimmick.] Perhaps some kind of proxy Mines build into a weird 3-1-1 bio all-in... Freeloses to Oracle play but well.
- [Gimmick.] Proxy gas rax fact Marine reactor (on rax, no swap) fact. Same. You can proxy everything or just the second fact. Bring some SCVs to try to build a Bunker in front of the Nexus, rally Marines/Mines and try to deal as much damage as possible in his main before he has detection out. Very unsound.
2-bases
- Against Colossus play, bio/Vikings + SCV pull. Bomber vs Creator, Star Station, GSL and ByuN vs Super, Clarity Gaming Showmatches (all games except the Whirlwind one).
- Bio/Tanks all-in. ByuN vs Super, Whirlwind
On April 23 2013 09:16 zhurai wrote:
sorry, I guess...was recalling the WoL one, and thought that got transferred over (or rather when I looked before I thought there was a small section oO)
I did not transfer the section because there has very few valid all-ins off 1 or 2 base(s).
Do you know where I can contact moderators to have him unwarned?
On April 23 2013 09:33 Jazzman88 wrote:
@TheDwf:
Is there a 'magic number' in TvP of units like Stalker/Templar/Zealot that you can boost over with speed Medivacs in groups of 2 or more where you know you're guaranteed to do damage?
Put another way, when playing TvP, is it ever a good idea to see a prepared defense for drops and just go for it depending on how much is waiting for you?
Generally it's not a good idea if a Templar is there with some gate units because Feedback will make your drop easily handled. All of this remains situational, of course, but when there are more than 7-8 gate units already there anything less than a quad drop will probably fail badly. If there are only 4-5 Stalkers you can try to drop on them leading with a Marauder drop to focus them; at worst, you will be able to lift just fine and go away with at least 3/4 Medivacs. But if there are Stalkers and Zealots, you really need more than a dual drop or Zealots just slaughter your troops while Stalkers focus your Medivacs to make sure nothing goes away.
On April 23 2013 10:23 stoppersur wrote:
In TvZ,
Is it possible to skip hellion when going reaper expend? Assuming i am going MMMM.
I am right now getting widow mine and skipping hellions, the reason behind my choice is that I often fail to micro my hellion and macro at the same time. Is it something I have to overcome eventually?
On April 23 2013 10:31 Pursuit_ wrote:
Not getting hellions means you're giving up map control. You're going to find it much harder to tell if your opponent is taking a third or tech'ing on two base and you're not going to be able to deny creep spread. If they go for some kind of ling supported all-in or timing attack (roach ling, ling bling or pure ling) widow mines are horrible against it because he can sacrifice 1-2 lings to disable each widow mine then kill the rest of your army. I personally find it pretty much impossible to play from these disadvantages against a good zerg.
This.
It's natural you have multitask troubles as the opening is demanding if action occurs with the Hellions, but you should train that rather than avoid the difficulty.
On April 23 2013 12:40 bvb wrote:
In TvP, how the hell do I fight against mass templars w/ chargelots? I'll have plenty of ghosts but before i can EMP or snipe them off, I will literally lose my entire army in less than 3 seconds to storm. The room for error in micro is razor thin and I lose almost every TvP after the ~20 min mark because of templars. How should I position my army? I have a mostly marine army (because marauders suck against chargelots) and all the P needs is a few good storms and its over. I've watched replays and a 200 vs 200 supply battle will end around 100 vs 180 it's ridiculous
Define "mass Templars," but add Hellbats as soon as you see him heading for this composition and be sure to have at least 8-10 Medivacs. Hellbats in front, Marines behind in a concave roughly spread so you can quickly box and retreat groups of them if you don't manage to hit all your EMPs.
On April 23 2013 14:27 S7EFEN wrote:
Few questions, considering switching to T.
A) Why don't people make an extra rax or 2 and float them for vision in TvZ?
B) I've been opening cc first > reactor hellion > double ups > raven > 2/2 > lots of rax, pressure, later third, with little / no fact support, then drop all my extra gas into 3 factories, pumping mines/tanks/thors/hellbats to support. I like how I can harass, get upgrades then add a ton of production at once, are there any builds that work like that in TvP ? I know I can open 111 in TvT, expand and then add a bunch of rax behind marine/hellion/banshee pressure, but I think that I'm still progressively adding on production.
I've heard the best way to manage production in TvP is 1 rax/fact expand > 2 more rax, 2 tec/1react, double ebay + starport behind mine/marine pressure/defense, get a third or add 2 more rax. When exactly should I have all my rax producing, and when should I be looking to drop my third or additional barracks?
Also, when I kite stuff, I've been using my whole army on a hotkey, using the stop command, but when I do this, my medivacs don't heal while under the move command, how do I deal with this?
A) Because it's both expensive and unnecessary if you play 4M (no minerals to spare). With mech it's possible though.
B) No, and it should not work either against competent Zergs. The standard development in TvP is to head for 3 rax Medivacs, third (timings depend on the builds, but generally around 9'30), 5 rax, second EB + Armory, go up to 7-8 rax with possibly a second Starport and a reactor Factory for Hellbats.
C) Ctrl-clic manually Marines and Marauders. Use Attack-move towards the enemy instead of Stop.
On April 23 2013 17:01 stoppersur wrote:
In TvZ, is it theoretically, if someone has perfect micro no marauder is needed? In other words, is it the better the micro, the less marauder one need to build?
Is there any suggestion for marine:marauder ratio in different leagues as a reference.?
Yes, you can skip Marauders entirely in midgame against lings/banes/mutas, but you have to add them once Zerg starts his infests/ultras transition. If you include Marauders against lings/banes/mutas, 2 per round of production at most.
On April 23 2013 20:02 SgtJoKeR wrote:
Hello! Could you guys tell me what this still is all about? How does he open , what makes it so out of the ordinary?
His control and execution are what makes him special (so no magic recipe, sorry). You can attempt mass Ghosts/Vikings transitions in any game in which you're still on ~70 SCVs with a strong position when max, slowly incorporating mass OCs, defensive PFs if needed, and replacing part of your low-tech bio with Ghosts and Vikings, but in HotS I wouldn't bother anyway as Protoss will just make a few Tempests to make this kind of strategy obsolete. Not to mention the amount of control needed is unbelievably high. Your best bet in TvP is always to try to outplay Protoss by midgame, and/or go for 2 or 3-bases all-ins.
On April 23 2013 21:15 graNite wrote:
I need a general rule or tip on how to not build too many workers.
Right now, i build them until i am maxed the first time and then i will add more orbitals and replace the scvs with more army.
but when i trade constantly, ill end up with 85 workers sometimes which is way too much.
Pay attention to the numbers written on your CCs, add them and if it's more than 75, sacrifice. The adequate number of SCVs to get on 3 bases depends on your game plan; generally it varies from 65 to 75, but staying as low as 45 ("fake third") to 60 for 3-bases all-ins in TvP is possible.
|
Awesome, thanks for your take on the All-Ins Dwf! I've kinda had the feeling that their less effective in HoTS with all the new scouting and early defense tools they've added.
|
|
|
I've been watching alot of Demuslim stream and his games vs Byun. And during the game i noticed something really neat. Byun opened a gas first banshee and didnt do a ton of damage, yet was significantly ahead of demuslim after it because of all the scans that he forced. Now for the entirety of sc2 i thought cloaked banshee's had to do damage to be useful. My question is how do you learn something like that on your own? It is easy learn build order and execute them, but how do you really learn the theory behind said build orders?
|
hello, I have problems vs new kind of Zerg-Allins.
The zerg actually goes for a quiet fast lair to scout out terran. If he sees u going fast 3 CC he will go for an allin. Now he can choose between two allins. If i go for regular widowmine deffense he just goes for mass roaches and kills it with overseer. If i scout his allin and get tanks he will counter it with overlord dropplay.
The problem is that i feel its realy hard to play against this. If the zerg gets a 3rd hatch he can even go for macro when he sees me going for fast raxes and tanks wihout a 3rd and without upgrades to hold an possible allin. This leads for me to either losing outright or losing later in macro game.
|
On April 24 2013 03:46 Skypirinha wrote:
hello, I have problems vs new kind of Zerg-Allins.
The zerg actually goes for a quiet fast lair to scout out terran. If he sees u going fast 3 CC he will go for an allin. Now he can choose between two allins. If i go for regular widowmine deffense he just goes for mass roaches and kills it with overseer. If i scout his allin and get tanks he will counter it with overlord dropplay.
The problem is that i feel its realy hard to play against this. If the zerg gets a 3rd hatch he can even go for macro when he sees me going for fast raxes and tanks wihout a 3rd and without upgrades to hold an possible allin. This leads for me to either losing outright or losing later in macro game.
So, both 3 CC and 2 base medivac timing into later 3rd are viable builds atm depending on your execution.
In the case of 2 base aggression, with proper micro you should be able to pressure the zerg or damage him if he was greedy while taking a bit later 3rd base.
In the case of 3CC you should be able to defend any allin if your build is solid.
Versus roaches you want to get some marauders in a bunker or behind a walloff that is being repaired, and probably a missile turret incase he got burrow.
If it's a late lair roach attack, put your widow mines further back in locations where he has to commit in order to kill them - i.e right next to your bunkers/behind your walloff/behind your first bunker. Tanks are very good at holding allins but you don't really have to make them to hold these allins, at least as far as my experience goes.
As for overlord drop-play.. I haven't encountered that ever, and it's not a problem if you're playing bio. I supposed you're playing mech? If that's the case then you probably have to pull your scvs to attack/repair and have your units spread out.
Learning to defend allins is tricky and arguably harder than executing aggressive play yourself, so you need to make the hard choice of learning to defend solidly with a greedy macro build or applying the pressure yourself with a 2 base build and expanding afterwards.
|
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On April 24 2013 02:54 ff7legend wrote:
I've been watching alot of Demuslim stream and his games vs Byun. And during the game i noticed something really neat. Byun opened a gas first banshee and didnt do a ton of damage, yet was significantly ahead of demuslim after it because of all the scans that he forced. Now for the entirety of sc2 i thought cloaked banshee's had to do damage to be useful. My question is how do you learn something like that on your own? It is easy learn build order and execute them, but how do you really learn the theory behind said build orders?
I think you might be over complicating things, I have seen ByuN do a gas first 2 mine + 4 hellion drop into cloak banshee into a 3 tank + marine + leftover vac push. The reasoning is simple. Mines force scans = not mules = not minerals = not units, by making your opponent burn unwanted scans, your followup cloakshee will do more damage, and the 3 tank push afterward will also do more damage, as more has to be invested in structures (engi bay, turrets) to hold, instead of units.
This type of layered aggression is delicious to watch when executed correctly though
|
On April 23 2013 23:59 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:42 FirstGear wrote:I have no idea if its actually viable, but demuslim seems to favour a marine hellbat composition tvz vs ling bane on his stream when I've been watching. I don't know if he was just experimenting though. I quickly clicked through the VODS I was last watching for examples: http://www.twitch.tv/demuslim/b/390478259 - game being played about 35 mins in, game 49 mins in & the last game that continues onto the next broadcast (http://www.twitch.tv/demuslim/b/390511822 see 15 seconds in) i think. Note times are example of heavy hellbat use with marines tvz rather than when the game starts. On an unrelated note, TheDwf the work you do on this thread is amazing. Its incredibly helpful, thanks :-) Thanks. I watched the VODs and I am not convinced by this Marines/Hellbats thing. You lack the "critical ranged AoE threshold" which gives Zerg nightmares when too many Mines (or Tanks) are on the field, and since Hellbats are melee-like units they're not helpful against Banelings (plus they don't one-shot Zerglings before +3 attack mech, by which time Zerg should be on Hive anyway). Increased strain will thus be put on the shoulder of Marines to deal with Zerg's army, especially as you're spending a third of your income to build units that don't help against mass Banelings/Mutalisks (Tanks don't shoot air either, but their ability to kill Banelings from afar makes it so more Marines remain to fight large Mutalisks fleet). Additionally, Hellbats don't have Stim, so you will inevitably perform inferior splits with them. In the Akilon Wastes game, Stephano had no troubles building a commanding lead despite having average engagements and fighting offcreep. If Zerg doesn't lead the charge with his Zerglings right into the Hellbats wall I don't see this having much chances against an army with 15+ Mutalisks and 25+ Banelings on creep.
Nice write up, i agree. But i do have a question after reading it, seeing not everyone is master and helbat is a-move unit : For lower leagues of play, going mostly hellbat+bio seems to me to be not so bad (macro+a-move/drop again and again with less micro), right?
|
On April 24 2013 04:26 mau5mat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 02:54 ff7legend wrote:
I've been watching alot of Demuslim stream and his games vs Byun. And during the game i noticed something really neat. Byun opened a gas first banshee and didnt do a ton of damage, yet was significantly ahead of demuslim after it because of all the scans that he forced. Now for the entirety of sc2 i thought cloaked banshee's had to do damage to be useful. My question is how do you learn something like that on your own? It is easy learn build order and execute them, but how do you really learn the theory behind said build orders? I think you might be over complicating things, I have seen ByuN do a gas first 2 mine + 4 hellion drop into cloak banshee into a 3 tank + marine + leftover vac push. The reasoning is simple. Mines force scans = not mules = not minerals = not units, by making your opponent burn unwanted scans, your followup cloakshee will do more damage, and the 3 tank push afterward will also do more damage, as more has to be invested in structures (engi bay, turrets) to hold, instead of units. This type of layered aggression is delicious to watch when executed correctly though
Reminds me of the reaper > hellions > cloakshee 1base play BoxeR used now and again in WoL, very fun style to play but required you to do maximum damage with minimal losses.
Regarding the point at hand I think you have to have incredibly solid macro to get the lead that Byun did in that game (assuming it was the game on Neo Planet S on Monday night (GMT)) the lead he got was very minimal and I think only really strong players would take advantage of such a lead. Plus you'd have to have great banshee micro (I think he only made 2 and lost 1) as well as being able to macro like a beast at the same time.
|
hi, 2 questions:
is mech just not viable anymore because of blinding cloud? i play mech and blinding cloud to me seems to make it near-impossible to ever move out, so my tvz games always become hour-long turtle-fests where i slowly kill off my workers and get the best possible 200/200 army (usually air). and even if i turtle like a madman i feel like my opponent can trade so damn well even rushing into my sieged army as long as he lands a few blinding clouds, and then he instantly remaxes and kills me with the 2nd wave.
in tvt, if i open reaper expo with no scv scout and my opponent is going for that 8/8/8 mass reaper on 2rax all-in, what is my best response? bunkers are easily avoided and i cant keep up with reaper production. should i quickly add a techlab on my rax and go for rauder + slow? or try to survive with reaper/scv until i can get hellions out?
User was warned for this post
|
Are there any guides on how, mechanically, one is supposed to play lategame TvP?
I can get a solid ghost/viking and marine/marauder count, I just am not controlling well, and I am not sure if I should be prioritizing splitting, stimming, EMPing/sniping HTs, kiting, or targetting w vikings first, nor how I am sure when to take an engagement. If anyone can link me to a guide or give me a basic run down I'd be very grateful.
Also, how do I engage an army with charge/storm or charge/colossi? I've been leading with my marauders as they can tank, rather than a moving and then splitting, and I heard I should aim to kite the zealots while staying out of range of the colossi/storm... so I should run back, try and spread for a concave, shoot till colossi get in range, repeat?
Also, anyone have a similar guide vs Ultras? I might be a tad bit to marine heavy, being the key issue here, but it seems like even with decent splits, ultras eat everything. How many reactors should I have, the rest being tech labs? I'll add on additional tech labs when I get my 4th up... again not sure here, might be a macro issue.
I don't really feel like this is addressed in the OP - I know what to build and when to some extent, its the control thats difficult to pick up from replays/streams/vods, as I can't tell what is happening mechanically during the battle as clearly.
|
On April 24 2013 12:56 S7EFEN wrote:
Are there any guides on how, mechanically, one is supposed to play lategame TvP?
I can get a solid ghost/viking and marine/marauder count, I just am not controlling well, and I am not sure if I should be prioritizing splitting, stimming, EMPing/sniping HTs, kiting, or targetting w vikings first, nor how I am sure when to take an engagement. If anyone can link me to a guide or give me a basic run down I'd be very grateful.
Also, how do I engage an army with charge/storm or charge/colossi? I've been leading with my marauders as they can tank, rather than a moving and then splitting, and I heard I should aim to kite the zealots while staying out of range of the colossi/storm... so I should run back, try and spread for a concave, shoot till colossi get in range, repeat?
Also, anyone have a similar guide vs Ultras? I might be a tad bit to marine heavy, being the key issue here, but it seems like even with decent splits, ultras eat everything. How many reactors should I have, the rest being tech labs? I'll add on additional tech labs when I get my 4th up... again not sure here, might be a macro issue.
I don't really feel like this is addressed in the OP - I know what to build and when to some extent, its the control thats difficult to pick up from replays/streams/vods, as I can't tell what is happening mechanically during the battle as clearly.
Ok so, lategame TvP is probably the hardest case of army control in the game. The simple answer is yes- you need to do all the things you mentioned.
Assuming that you have the right composition, you want to scan your opponents army and be particularly aware of several things - the high templars location/spread, the collosus number and the stalkers number and location.
Your goal is to continually emp/snipe high templar and possibly get volleys off on the colossus while hopefully getting him to waste storms defensively. You should be moving forward/backward until a favorable moment for engagement presents itself. If you manage to catch all his HT in emps then you should engage while emp blanketing his army->stimming->targeting the colossus with the vikings. Once the battle started you should split off clumps of your army where zealots are attacking them, and so that colossus deal less damage.
In the case of massive colossus numbers ->5 plus, you should start splitting off your army very early and/or kite while your vikings do their job.
If he has just 3 colossus and you epmed his hts you probably don't even need to split and his army should melt.
This is however a dream scenario, if he's good and his hts are split and he has many of them you will need to continually snipe them while dancing your army with him; throwing the occasional emp and with experience you'll know when to engage.
For reference TvP is my best mu with a high 70%+ winrate at high master, I usually play for the lategame because I feel my army control is good enough.
As for TvZ, you want about 3-4 techlabs when he has ultras out pumping out rauders. The engagement changes based on his composition/ultras numbers. If he has just ultras and a ton of them, just kite your whole army back and if you can target specific ultras - and they'll be crushed.
If he has some ultras and some infestors, getting a nice concave and splitting units back kind of like vs banelings can be good. Mechanically this means boxing about half your army once or twice when it's in a ball to get a nice concave, then quickly boxing groups of units that are being attacked backwards in move command and relying on your armies superior dps. The second part should be executed continuously until he's dead or if you see you're being overrun start kiting back with your whole army/lift up and join up with reinforcements.
|
http://drop.sc/327241
How could I have handled this opener differently? I scouted double gas and only 2 pylons in main so expected proxy stargate as it's very common at the minute. Whilst I was kind've right he didn't go for it very fast. I feel like if my marine had spotted his proxy pylon I would've had my marines in better position for his oracle follow up - but I didn't see so assumed he was going for fast tech in something else like HT/DT idk.
But before all that I had my marines ready for his oracle near my mineral line and he pushes with MsC zealot and stalker and manage to get some mariner kills and few SCVs, if I had my marines at ramp I probably would've deflected the push with initial set of marines though I'm not sure.
I had pretty much lost the game by the time that poke was over and oracle had its fun (17 workers lost) just threw me a bit how he poked first before oracle yet still proxied it :/
Also when protoss mixes in DT's with their army is it worth making another starport with TL for Raven, or swapping your current SP onto TL for Raven, or just banking some scans before you engage like I did in this game. Seems like a big investment but I guess in most mid-late game TvP scenarios you will want a second port anyway later on, I just don't like the idea of cutting into medivac/viking time to make a Raven just to deal with DT's ><
|
|
|
In TvZ, why don't terrans rush for one or two quick widow mines and burrow them under the zergs potential third? This would force the third to be taken after Lair has finished or some hatch cancel spore cannon building hijinks.
|
On April 26 2013 00:33 herMan wrote:
In TvZ, why don't terrans rush for one or two quick widow mines and burrow them under the zergs potential third? This would force the third to be taken after Lair has finished or some hatch cancel spore cannon building hijinks.
? after 6 hellions controlling the map if zerg still doesnt have third totally yes
But usually the zerg will have a third up when the first two hellions reaches there...I dont think mines can run faster than hellions
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
