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On December 16 2014 15:33 KingofGods wrote:
Bunkers are better when defending all ins rather than a few extra marines. MKP just has ridiculous micro.
It depends. In my experience especially vs blink builds it can be really beneficial to have extra units over extra bunkers. If you don't have enough units it's a lot easier for the protoss to pick things off bit by bit and then just destroy the bunkers when he is in an overwhelming position.
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Hi Folks,
I am having some major problems in TvZ after my recent promotion back to Diamond. I've been doing solid in TvT (50% winrate, and TvP (60% winrate) but my TvZ is suffering badly.
I have tried a variety of styles, including early hellbat pushes, but I really want to play the standard 3-base biomine style, which is what I'm most comfortable with.
I seem to have several general problems.
- First, my early-game macro is ok but not great. This is because I find it incredibly difficult to micro and harass with reapers and hellions without missing any SCVs or supply depots. However, if I don't pressure, zerg just expands like crazy and creep spreads everywhere.
- Second, creep-spread mid-game is a big problem. On larger maps, I can't even get close to zerg bases to pressure without stepping on creep.
- Third in mid-game to late-game, I often straight-up die to a remax after a big engagement.
Here are some replays:
Daybreak: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5669233
- Opening on this map was pretty typical, with both of us going for quick 3 bases. I had the forward tower until speedlings were out and pushed away my hellions.
- While I was securing third and building midgame infrastructure, zerg had massive creepspread up two of the 3 lanes of the map (and towards my potential 4th.
- Many engagements ensue, during which I take repeated favorable engagements. However, creep continues to expand despite scanning, and I can't get onto his side of the map. Zerg expands uncontested.
- He snipes my 3rd in 20 seconds with a giant muta flock, and even loses all of them, but I'm even further behind in economy
- Late-game, I have a 14k advantage in resources lost thanks to good engagements, but he has way more bases and I can't get a foothold on the map. I die to brood lord tech switch.
- How could I have gotten map control in this game?
Akilon Wastes: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5669238
-My early macro is not great, but I get to 60 workers by 12 mins
- Around 13 mins I start poking to clear creep and we take small even engagements. I'm ahead in upgrades. This mid-map poking continues for around 4 minutes.
- At 17:45, he flanks and my whole army dies. I get back onto the map with reinforncements but he makes 54 lings instantly and kills me.
- How could I have survived the instant remax in this game? Should I have expected the 18-minute counterattack?
Shakuras: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5669241
- I scouted no 3rd and though roach-bane bust, so bunkered up.
- Around 12-15 minutes, I get the army supply lead and take a favorable engagement at 16 mins.
- At 16:30, he pushes my third, and I just straight up die, even with bunkers.
I get that my APM is terrible and my macro is not the best, but am I playing significantly worse than these zerg players? Am I missing something critical in how I play TvZ? It feels like zerg just rolls over me.
Any advice on how to play TvZ in my league would be appreciated. Particular ways to minimize multitasking so that I can focus on macro.
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how do you cast your EMPs in late game tvp? e click e click e click? hold e? with or without shift?
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If you bind it to your rapid fire key, you can blanket their army in nano seconds. You best wait for a more skilled player than I to advise if this is a good idea the higher up the ladders you go.
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If you bind it to your rapid fire key won't there be a lot of overlapping? I think a lot of pros bind their rapid fire key to snipe.
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Yep! You can also burn the ghosts energy in zero time. Personally I find it useful. Though, I don't know if it's a good idea for higher ladders. I feel you have to be more surgical and precise the closer to the top you get.
But for those curious or unfamiliar.
Find this folder:
C:\Users\YOUR_USER_NAME\Documents\StarCraft II\Accounts\LONG_NUMBER\Hotkeys
Backup then open whichever .SC2Hotkeys file you use in notepad (with SC2 closed).
And find the line;
TargetChoose=LeftMouseButton
And add any keys you wish to use for rapid fire, my line is;
TargetChoose=LeftMouseButton,A,S,D,W
A,S,D cover all my units special abilities (mostly). So AutoTurret, Point Defence, Seeker Missle, Sniper, EMP. W is my key for call down mule.
You can bind one key through the UI, it's called 'choose ability or AI target' in game. But to add multiple binds you have to edit the file direct as far as I know.
It's still possible to only drop one EMP specifically targetted, just holding the key down will spam it. If you want to spam snipe on a bunch of high templars, you'll have to hold down shift.
If you have a look in the Arcade subsection in game for a map/mod called 'unit test map', you can test stuff out there easily.
More info
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To the long ass post made bout TvZ. (I havn't checked replays FYI)
I mech in TvZ so I might not be that helpful. But you should find a opener you're comfortable with, if you open 1 reaper into hellions it's less micro, the sole reaper you get is for scouting purposes and you don't have to micro it to much, just go in and see what you'd like to see and get out. rinse and repeat.¨
You WILL need to make a push such as hellbat early on to stop him from droning. This push can look very differently depending on how you do it. after this push you simply start to use mines instead of hellbats.
I used to do this push http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvz/tvz-marus-marinehellionmedivac-timing/
But I don't know how viable it is in todays meta.
And drop, drop drop. The mutas can't be everywhere. If you see them somewhere, drop on the other side.
Some generic information I can give without checking replay. (whenever I play bio, I never stop attacking.)
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On December 17 2014 06:40 Sent. wrote:
how do you cast your EMPs in late game tvp? e click e click e click? hold e? with or without shift?
1 - just keeping e pushed and click click click : easiest way (just one key used) but be aware the waiting list for orders can't be bigger than the number of ghosts available. IE : you have 4 ghosts, cast 5 EMP, if your 5th click is done before the first EMP is actually casted, your first order will be overwritten (hope I m clear) If you goal is to just "EMP-carpet" the same place it may not matter that much. If you want precision (use a specific place for each EMP, or use snipes) I wouldn't recommend this unless you totally know what you're doing.
2- use shift : you press e, then shift, then click click click... (once shift is pressed you can release the e key) so you use 2 keys for a short amount of time. Messing up can be more frequent with this one (if you release e key too early), like suddenly you select your enemy's unit instead of casting a spell on it. With practice though you can get rid of these mistakes. With that method you're sure that every spell will be actually casted (unless ghosts die or are out of energy) in the very order you want. (better method for snipes I think)
3- insta mass cast : you first move click your ghosts in range, then, while they're moving, you queue the EMP orders (shift key is pressed), they will cast all EMP at once when they arrive on the spot. Beautiful. But you will burn all your energy, don't miss your target :D You also take the risk of having all your ghost killed if you move too fast. When you manage to use this with a snipe queue, you'll cheer at the vison of all HT evaporating at once 
Voila these are the 3 basic methods. be aware the hard part is to actually find the good range : if you're too far, your enemy may move before you land your EMP, if you're too close, your ghosts will be toasted before they can cast.
You will also notice (well that's my impression) that pro don't like mass casting very much and prefer aiming each spell individually cause ghost energy is so precious...
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On December 17 2014 05:27 BeefMaster wrote:Akilon Wastes: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5669238-My early macro is not great, but I get to 60 workers by 12 mins - Around 13 mins I start poking to clear creep and we take small even engagements. I'm ahead in upgrades. This mid-map poking continues for around 4 minutes. - At 17:45, he flanks and my whole army dies. I get back onto the map with reinforncements but he makes 54 lings instantly and kills me. - How could I have survived the instant remax in this game? Should I have expected the 18-minute counterattack?
There s a problem with your build here :
-your reactored factory stays iddle a lot, you build 6 helions, then you lift it to make another reactor to resume helions production (and the mines). Facto stayed on the first ractor from 5'45 to 8'38. had you produced continuously, you would have had (almost) 12 helions instead of 6. BUt more importantly you should have moved your facto earlier and produced more reactors with it.
- at 9 mins you have 34 workers, with a reaper expand into hellions into 3rd CC, it's 43 workers you should have. You're missing a lot.
- consequence of both : your marines are late
- you upgrades are late too.
Download the replay of Flash vs TLO game 1 from Homestory cup X to see what a 1 reaper expand into helions should be like.
Among other things Flash produce 6 helions without missing a beat, his facto creates 3 extra reactor (1 for 3rd rax, 1 for spatio and 1 for the facto itself). As a result, at 10'30 he has stim/shield/+1+1 58 scv, 2 medivacs 6 helions 1 reaper and around 20 marines.
in your game you have 7 marines, 6 helions 1 marauder, shield is done but stim +1+1 is just started. You also only have 48 scv (the ones you missed at start can't be caught back)
This timing is also interesting cause at that point you still have done nothing (dont kill rocks with helions and marines, it's a loss of time) while your opponent has :
- a 3rd base and soon a 4th
- 70 drones
- speedling and speed bane almost finished
- spire halfway done
- a creep spread gone totally out of control.
He's a very happy zerg.
You need to take care of the creep asap with your reaper and your helions (6helions + a reaper + micro are not afraid of a queen) The first tumors are keys, if you let him go with 11 active creep tumors, it'll be a pain in the ass to clear that creep mid game. This is the very reason why you're making helions in the first place; you don't make them to kill rocks, do you? if you're not active on the map with them, no need to build them actually...
At 13'00 you push out on your 1/1 but your army is kinda a walking dead army cause it's so small, the creep is so big and your economy is so bad (you have 0 gaz in your 3rd and only 2/6 guys mining gas in your 2nd), you also have built blindly 10 turets that won't shoot before the game is already over (one inside each mineral line is enough and no need to get crazy on them if you have not scouted mutas yet). Last your facto with techlab is ultra far away, no thor nor fast burrow for you 
Finally he does'tn kill you with an insta remax, he kills you because he has a crazy 5 bases economy + a huge flock of mutalisks and you have no answer for this. ANd to be honest with a 10 min mass roach baneling all in he would have killed you too...
So to make it short :
- improve your build, look at the game from flash I talked about, but also watch Taeja's games and INnoVations. See how fast the facto is being lifted to produce more reactors, how fast rax are added, see when gaz are taken and when the first thors are getting out when muta are scouted.
- be active with your helions, be sure to kill the first tumors. pressure the zerg, don't let him macro freely. Do a first big push on your 1/1 (around 10-11 mins) go on rampage on his 4th on your 2/2 (at around 14-15 mins) destroy him on your 3/3.
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Thanks Gwavajuice. Sounds like I need to focus more on tightening the early game build and also shutting down the very early creep tumors with hellions and reaper.
I will definitely check out the Flash game. I think I need to get better with microing hellions while not missing things at home. It's so easy to lose hellions after speed is done, that I just get overly focused on them and miss building SCVs and adding production structures.
I will practice that 6-12 minute window a bunch more and really try to tighten it up.
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On December 17 2014 04:46 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 15:33 KingofGods wrote:
Bunkers are better when defending all ins rather than a few extra marines. MKP just has ridiculous micro. It depends. In my experience especially vs blink builds it can be really beneficial to have extra units over extra bunkers. If you don't have enough units it's a lot easier for the protoss to pick things off bit by bit and then just destroy the bunkers when he is in an overwhelming position.
Not to mention you eventually need enough actual units to take or retake your natural.
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I've been dying to 6 pools lately with my usual 12 rax, 12 gas reaper expand. They arrive before my cc and my 2nd supply depot and camp around the rax.
Any good tips for dealing with it besides the obvious try to wall-off somehow and dunno some scv micro to save the weaken ones?
Ah, and talking about early game cheeses (during the glorious dreampool) how to fend off a 2-gate in base?
I didn't see the probe coming since I didn't place my supply depot at the ramp. Is it the supply depot a must for scouting it?
Cheers :-)
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On December 18 2014 02:33 helius788 wrote:
Ah, and talking about early game cheeses (during the glorious dreampool) how to fend off a 2-gate in base?
I didn't see the probe coming since I didn't place my supply depot at the ramp. Is it the supply depot a must for scouting it?
Early scv scout will have no gates in their base
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On December 18 2014 02:33 helius788 wrote:
I've been dying to 6 pools lately with my usual 12 rax, 12 gas reaper expand. They arrive before my cc and my 2nd supply depot and camp around the rax.
Any good tips for dealing with it besides the obvious try to wall-off somehow and dunno some scv micro to save the weaken ones?
Ah, and talking about early game cheeses (during the glorious dreampool) how to fend off a 2-gate in base?
I didn't see the probe coming since I didn't place my supply depot at the ramp. Is it the supply depot a must for scouting it?
Cheers :-)
Well, it seems pretty clear to me this is a problem in your playstyle.
Apparantly, you cut so many corners and don't even consider scouting.
As for the two gate, people build their depot at ramp for this reason. Another option is to just hop around your base, you should find it.
6-pool can be dealt with with a wall if you have a warning in time. So, scout with the SCV or make sure there's an SCV near the wall of to throw down an emergency depot.
Ladder really isn't the place where you should cut scouting, it costs a little bit and saves so many losses...
If you do decide not to scout, be prepared to take those losses you invite because you are greedy...
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On December 18 2014 02:33 helius788 wrote:
I've been dying to 6 pools lately with my usual 12 rax, 12 gas reaper expand. They arrive before my cc and my 2nd supply depot and camp around the rax.
Any good tips for dealing with it besides the obvious try to wall-off somehow and dunno some scv micro to save the weaken ones?
Ah, and talking about early game cheeses (during the glorious dreampool) how to fend off a 2-gate in base?
I didn't see the probe coming since I didn't place my supply depot at the ramp. Is it the supply depot a must for scouting it?
Cheers :-)
Besides what others have answered you can do this as an emergency:
Since they're slow lings you can press H to make your SCV stop building the rax and start building a deppot then send another SCV to finish the rax, you will be ahead anyway, also once you have a reaper (or 2) you can take your natural, slow lings will be never reach a reaper. Altough I don't think a six pool can actually hit before the rax is done.
As for 2 gate I build my deppot near the ramp (not in the ramp) to spot the probe, I've actually have defeated some in base 2 gates this way, you do need to have an eye on the minimap tho or you won't see the probe.
Hope my answers are useful.
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On December 18 2014 02:33 helius788 wrote:
...
Ah, and talking about early game cheeses (during the glorious dreampool) how to fend off a 2-gate in base?
I didn't see the probe coming since I didn't place my supply depot at the ramp. Is it the supply depot a must for scouting it?
Cheers :-)
What other said + what said OP :
Q. How do you deal with proxy Gateways in base?
+ Show Spoiler [Answer] +TheDwf wrote:
Against 2 Gateways in my base, I use 11/11 and I build my Barracks between my CC and geysers; against a single Gateway, 12/14 should be enough. Regardless of your building layout you will have to micro anyway, so pull back SCVs after they take 2 hits and remember that a Marine cannot take any hit from a Zealot if you move it manually with caution.
Proxies outside your base are simply thwarted by a wall.
I would just add that once you have your 2nd rax, if you still have money a bunker behind the mineral line can help. don't mine gaz. try to keep mining mineral somehow.(running scv around is sometimes actually worse than loosing one, that's why you have to micro them individually)
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thx, guys. It wasn't till dreampool where I had to learn to fend off early cheeses like that to learn my lesson :D
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I just had a recent bump in MMR after winning quite a bit the past few weeks and have been getting all inned often...more often than I used to. Been difficult to deal with.
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Which maps to veto as Terran for this new map pool?
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EPT
