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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Can you post a link to the build you're using? I expected it to be this one but you went gas first, didn't reactor the hellions and completely skipped the CC until 8 minutes, obviously you're going to be behind then if you don't do damage. The good news is that by executing the build i linked correctly, you will do the very same attack (i.e. medivac with 4 hellions and a few marines) at the same timing as in the replay (i.e. ~7 minutes) but with a second CC secured as early as you're opponent.
Hm odd, I saw it on imbabuilds a while ago but it's not there anymore. The build order you linked seems a lot more economic, which I like, thanks!
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On December 28 2014 10:48 NexT_SC2 wrote:Show nested quote +
Can you post a link to the build you're using? I expected it to be this one but you went gas first, didn't reactor the hellions and completely skipped the CC until 8 minutes, obviously you're going to be behind then if you don't do damage. The good news is that by executing the build i linked correctly, you will do the very same attack (i.e. medivac with 4 hellions and a few marines) at the same timing as in the replay (i.e. ~7 minutes) but with a second CC secured as early as you're opponent.
Hm odd, I saw it on imbabuilds a while ago but it's not there anymore. The build order you linked seems a lot more economic, which I like, thanks!
Think it may have been this one you saw, however it's a WoL build and probably outdated (only thing it really gives you is perhaps a slightly earlier attack but no exp).
Note that the marine/hellion FE build is very similar to the 15 gas FE into widow mine drop for TvP, which might be nice to use once you're confident with the other build in TvT.
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On December 27 2014 03:52 NexT_SC2 wrote:Ok so someone told me to use the marine hellion elevator build on imbabuilds for tvt. I've been losing to pretty much every terran I play because they always fast expand and are ahead on upgrades and economy and it's hard for me to catch up. Here's a replay: http://drop.sc/390755 . Maybe I didn't do enough damage to set them back? Or is it a build order loss?
The build is perfectly viable, I face it regularly at high Masters EU.
A few things about execution: With gas first most people don't scout. On 3+ player maps or if you really want to scout scout with your 14th SCV, not straight with the depot SCV.
Timings are super important with a build investing in such an early assault to your enemy, try playing the exact build perfect against A.I. and memorize the timings.
For example your barracks went down at ~2:07 at 14 supply while it could have went down at ~1:52 at 13 supply. Build your Factory right as the barracks finished, it should start no later than 3:00.
Things like these add up, delayed your barracks by 10 seconds, factory by 10 seconds and starport by 10 seconds? Your opponent might now have 2 extra hellions and a marine for defence.
Of course in your league perfect execution might not be nesseccary to win games, but I believe if you execute this build order a little closer to perfect this build might result in a lot of early wins or atleast give you a nice edge.
Also as a followup medivacs like you built would be very aggressive, you would be required to use them right away and pressure with additional units. Instead I would suggest you go Medivac (1st) > Viking > Raven which is more standard and safe. You can then decide to rival air control by building additional vikings or go medivacs along with bio.
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I have another question, my TvZ is fine for the most part but I have trouble with aggressive zergs. I 14cc into reactored hellions every game (I know it's greedy) and I die to zergs that go ling aggression and then get a baneling nest and bust my wall. Then I'm too far behind and I lose. Here's a replay: http://drop.sc/390834 . Thanks
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@Next_SC2 . Is really hard to hold those kind of aggressive builds but is not impossible either, your best bet is to have you factory timing very tight, since the unit you need to hold those attacks is the hellion, and all comes down to micro afterwards, watch Gumiho vs Jaedong, the game in merry go round for that kind of example. The other thing it comes down too is walling off, you need to wall both your natural and main, so if you lose your natural you still have a bit of time to try and hold your main, but really all comes down to the micro, if you don't have to many loses i would recommend you to go for banshees with cloak to put some counter pressure, or you can just go your regular 3 CC build which by this time you might already have your infra structure going.
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I've been struggling with tvz lately, and so came here to learn a bit more about the matchup. I see a lot of the tips and guides here are reliant on hellions to hold off lings/blings/etc (big generalization, I know, but that's not the point). Because I've been having issues with mutas a lot too, I realized I need to start mixing in some thors into my army as well as more widow mines than I produce right now. My question is, with my build, which is basically rax cc double gas double cc factory into starport and produce the whole time and get a 3rd cc when possible, I don't seem to have hellions that fit into that.
What's a basic build that'll get me a good Early 2 bases and third when possible to match the z expansions while keeping me safe with hellions and alive as the game progresses with thors and whatnot to counter the mutas that every z player in plat seems to do?
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@Next_SC2 . Is really hard to hold those kind of aggressive builds but is not impossible either, your best bet is to have you factory timing very tight, since the unit you need to hold those attacks is the hellion, and all comes down to micro afterwards, watch Gumiho vs Jaedong, the game in merry go round for that kind of example. The other thing it comes down too is walling off, you need to wall both your natural and main, so if you lose your natural you still have a bit of time to try and hold your main, but really all comes down to the micro, if you don't have to many loses i would recommend you to go for banshees with cloak to put some counter pressure, or you can just go your regular 3 CC build which by this time you might already have your infra structure going.
Yeah that's what I normally do and I'm fine but recently the aggression is super early. In the replay my 15th scv that was scouting saw the lings halfway across the map and my 2nd cc finished just before the lings came. I had a wall in my main but he kept repeatedly busting it with banes and I never felt safe to take my natural until much later when he was on three base with mutas.
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That is probably because he went 1 base ling bane bust, all you need to do is wall off and get hellions, lift natural cc to main, and make a couple of bunkers. But i repeat, you need hellions and micro them. Anyways, i would also recommend you to open reaper expand, since it is a safer build and would give you more scouting information at any stage of the game, and a couple more of marines for defenses. Hope that helps.
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@232529 Im pretty sure if you put more effort into reading the OP you would find the information needed to help you improve in the aspects you are having problems, if you don't wanna do a a fast 3 CC build, then just go for hellion banshees and add 3 OC when money allows you to after you got 6 hellions and 2 banshees, more than that would delay everything, from infra structure, to timings and upgrades, but it will give you added pressure that you would get advantage off only if your opponent messes up or you micro your heart out and miss lots of things back on your base. Advice, read OP on tvz hellion banshee section and watch couple of pro games.
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How do you guys cope with the fact that protoss is so ridiculously much easier to play lategame? I'm getting so pissed off and frustrated that I don't even know what to say. I feel like I should just uninstall, burn my PC and move on. This is so fucking stupid. I mean I keep losing to these horrible platinum players just because I literally can't manage to do anything against a turtling protoss. It doesn't matter if I'm 70 supply up simply by macroing, have millions of bases and barracks, tons of ghosts and vikings, once I have to face the army I'm dead no matter what I do.
I've tried playing toss myself for a few days to see if it really is that easy in PvT, and it seriously fucking is. After a few days of playing protoss I'm 100 % sure I would crush my own terran which I have been practicing for like 2-3 years, and I don't even know what all the protoss hotkeys are! (I'm having an easier time beating other protosses with protoss than with my main race! How fucking silly isn't that?) Like I can't be the only one feeling this way. Is this seriously how the game is meant to be?
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On December 29 2014 15:37 llaMWell wrote:
How do you guys cope with the fact that protoss is so ridiculously much easier to play lategame? I'm getting so pissed off and frustrated that I don't even know what to say. I feel like I should just uninstall, burn my PC and move on. This is so fucking stupid. I mean I keep losing to these horrible platinum players just because I literally can't manage to do anything against a turtling protoss. It doesn't matter if I'm 70 supply up simply by macroing, have millions of bases and barracks, tons of ghosts and vikings, once I have to face the army I'm dead no matter what I do.
I've tried playing toss myself for a few days to see if it really is that easy in PvT, and it seriously fucking is. After a few days of playing protoss I'm 100 % sure I would crush my own terran which I have been practicing for like 2-3 years, and I don't even know what all the protoss hotkeys are! (I'm having an easier time beating other protosses with protoss than with my main race! How fucking silly isn't that?) Like I can't be the only one feeling this way. Is this seriously how the game is meant to be?
Read the second part of my response to you in the other thread:
You should be asking "How do I improve my lategame vs Protoss" or "how do I win before the lategame vs Protoss" along with a replay instead of posting what comes off at worst a balance whine and at best an incredibly unspecific query which is effectively impossible to answer. We can't help you much without a replay anyway.
Without a replay, we don't know what you are doing vs. Protoss currently, what is going wrong with it, etc. (Read: problems we can fix.) As is, it is clear you are doing multiple things wrong but it's impossible to tell what.
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On December 29 2014 04:50 232529 wrote:
I've been struggling with tvz lately, and so came here to learn a bit more about the matchup. I see a lot of the tips and guides here are reliant on hellions to hold off lings/blings/etc (big generalization, I know, but that's not the point). Because I've been having issues with mutas a lot too, I realized I need to start mixing in some thors into my army as well as more widow mines than I produce right now. My question is, with my build, which is basically rax cc double gas double cc factory into starport and produce the whole time and get a 3rd cc when possible, I don't seem to have hellions that fit into that.
What's a basic build that'll get me a good Early 2 bases and third when possible to match the z expansions while keeping me safe with hellions and alive as the game progresses with thors and whatnot to counter the mutas that every z player in plat seems to do?
Gas first openings are sick in TvZ. Beware the counter 2-base all-ins, though.
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On December 30 2014 05:52 Julek wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 04:50 232529 wrote:
I've been struggling with tvz lately, and so came here to learn a bit more about the matchup. I see a lot of the tips and guides here are reliant on hellions to hold off lings/blings/etc (big generalization, I know, but that's not the point). Because I've been having issues with mutas a lot too, I realized I need to start mixing in some thors into my army as well as more widow mines than I produce right now. My question is, with my build, which is basically rax cc double gas double cc factory into starport and produce the whole time and get a 3rd cc when possible, I don't seem to have hellions that fit into that.
What's a basic build that'll get me a good Early 2 bases and third when possible to match the z expansions while keeping me safe with hellions and alive as the game progresses with thors and whatnot to counter the mutas that every z player in plat seems to do? Gas first openings are sick in TvZ. Beware the counter 2-base all-ins, though.
Gas first is a terrible build in TvZ, all the timings you can hit arent that great and can be easily defended once the zerg sees you didnt early expo which they will in time. Also just doing a similar push off an expansion is much better and more stable.
As for a build this guy can do. 12/12 Reaper expansion builds are the standard for TvZ and allow you to get out hellions in the time you need them and also get a 3rd CC or just pump out more production and go for a big push that way. Reaper FE ImbaBuilds
You can still go 1 rax Fe and just go hellion banshee off that to be as safe as you can be. 1 Rax FE ImbaBuilds
As for what to scout and how to react and such you can get nearly all of that in the main OP
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What is the correct response to 2-base mutas if you play mech? The assumption is that you spot him going for lair a few minutes before the mutas hit and that you are on two bases. A turret in each mineral line and producing Thors is a given, but should you
a) Stay defensive
b) Take your whole army and attack him before the mutas can attack you?
c) Take a third before his mutas attack, thus going for the economic advantage?
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On December 29 2014 15:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 15:37 llaMWell wrote:
How do you guys cope with the fact that protoss is so ridiculously much easier to play lategame? I'm getting so pissed off and frustrated that I don't even know what to say. I feel like I should just uninstall, burn my PC and move on. This is so fucking stupid. I mean I keep losing to these horrible platinum players just because I literally can't manage to do anything against a turtling protoss. It doesn't matter if I'm 70 supply up simply by macroing, have millions of bases and barracks, tons of ghosts and vikings, once I have to face the army I'm dead no matter what I do.
I've tried playing toss myself for a few days to see if it really is that easy in PvT, and it seriously fucking is. After a few days of playing protoss I'm 100 % sure I would crush my own terran which I have been practicing for like 2-3 years, and I don't even know what all the protoss hotkeys are! (I'm having an easier time beating other protosses with protoss than with my main race! How fucking silly isn't that?) Like I can't be the only one feeling this way. Is this seriously how the game is meant to be? Read the second part of my response to you in the other thread: Show nested quote +You should be asking "How do I improve my lategame vs Protoss" or "how do I win before the lategame vs Protoss" along with a replay instead of posting what comes off at worst a balance whine and at best an incredibly unspecific query which is effectively impossible to answer. We can't help you much without a replay anyway. Without a replay, we don't know what you are doing vs. Protoss currently, what is going wrong with it, etc. (Read: problems we can fix.) As is, it is clear you are doing multiple things wrong but it's impossible to tell what.
I'm not doing anything "wrong" other than just being bad, which my opponents of course also are (this is platinum). I know what to do, the point is that it's just so extremely more hard to do what I have to do, than for the protoss to do what he's got to do, and that's what really gets to me. And that is a fact. Zealots and archons require ZERO micro, collossus micro is easy (they can move over everything, and they're big, thus easy to grab), and storms can be massed and spammed and kills bio in a second. At this level of play, there is essentially zero difference between an unmicroed protoss deathball and a microed one, except for the storms not being casted.
So my question was: For those of you who actually realize that this is a fact, how do you cope with it?
In WOL I could just overpower them mid game with better macro and never let it go to the lategame. After planetary nexus that does of course not work anymore, and it requires pressing one freakin button on protoss' part.
My solution could of course be just switching to protoss, it's just that I get ZERO satisfaction beating terrans knowing how insanely much harder the whole game was for them. I don't want to play on easy mode, I just wished we all played on the same difficulty.
Replay, since you asked, even though it doesn't really matter: http://drop.sc/390915
This is a freakin gold league protoss. I scouted his proxy double oracle, I did what I'm supposed to do to defend it (of course he still got 10 workers, because why the fuck not), but it doesn't matter, I'm still ahead in everything, but of course I still cannot possibly close out the game and the lategame is forced which I am doomed to lose.
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Innovation refuses to go to late game against protoss. 2 or 3 base scv pull or die trying. You can always try to adopt that style. Personally I prefer the multi-pronged drop style. Just get ready to pool all your rallied units at the top of your ramp because a protoss player who can't keep up with the multitasking will simply march their deathball across the map which you have to kill, eventually.
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On December 31 2014 03:14 llaMWell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 15:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:On December 29 2014 15:37 llaMWell wrote:
How do you guys cope with the fact that protoss is so ridiculously much easier to play lategame? I'm getting so pissed off and frustrated that I don't even know what to say. I feel like I should just uninstall, burn my PC and move on. This is so fucking stupid. I mean I keep losing to these horrible platinum players just because I literally can't manage to do anything against a turtling protoss. It doesn't matter if I'm 70 supply up simply by macroing, have millions of bases and barracks, tons of ghosts and vikings, once I have to face the army I'm dead no matter what I do.
I've tried playing toss myself for a few days to see if it really is that easy in PvT, and it seriously fucking is. After a few days of playing protoss I'm 100 % sure I would crush my own terran which I have been practicing for like 2-3 years, and I don't even know what all the protoss hotkeys are! (I'm having an easier time beating other protosses with protoss than with my main race! How fucking silly isn't that?) Like I can't be the only one feeling this way. Is this seriously how the game is meant to be? Read the second part of my response to you in the other thread: You should be asking "How do I improve my lategame vs Protoss" or "how do I win before the lategame vs Protoss" along with a replay instead of posting what comes off at worst a balance whine and at best an incredibly unspecific query which is effectively impossible to answer. We can't help you much without a replay anyway. Without a replay, we don't know what you are doing vs. Protoss currently, what is going wrong with it, etc. (Read: problems we can fix.) As is, it is clear you are doing multiple things wrong but it's impossible to tell what. I'm not doing anything "wrong" other than just being bad, which my opponents of course also are (this is platinum). I know what to do, the point is that it's just so extremely more hard to do what I have to do, than for the protoss to do what he's got to do, and that's what really gets to me. And that is a fact. Zealots and archons require ZERO micro, collossus micro is easy (they can move over everything, and they're big, thus easy to grab), and storms can be massed and spammed and kills bio in a second. At this level of play, there is essentially zero difference between an unmicroed protoss deathball and a microed one, except for the storms not being casted. So my question was: For those of you who actually realize that this is a fact, how do you cope with it? In WOL I could just overpower them mid game with better macro and never let it go to the lategame. After planetary nexus that does of course not work anymore, and it requires pressing one freakin button on protoss' part. My solution could of course be just switching to protoss, it's just that I get ZERO satisfaction beating terrans knowing how insanely much harder the whole game was for them. I don't want to play on easy mode, I just wished we all played on the same difficulty. Replay, since you asked, even though it doesn't really matter: http://drop.sc/390915This is a freakin gold league protoss. I scouted his proxy double oracle, I did what I'm supposed to do to defend it (of course he still got 10 workers, because why the fuck not), but it doesn't matter, I'm still ahead in everything, but of course I still cannot possibly close out the game and the lategame is forced which I am doomed to lose.
You actually defend the oracles quite well, but your advantage is negated by poor macro (slightly worse than the protoss) and bad timings. At 15 minutes, Protoss sits on 2 bases, 120 supply, with only 2 colossi and negligible upgrades. You have 140 supply with only +1 weapons when you could be scv pulling at over 160 supply with 6+ vikings and 1/1 (which would have won you the game.) Poor viking control (you lose 8 ish vikings for nothing) loses you what army advantage you had. You should be using your vikings in a fight, and only taking potshots at colossi when you know the vikings will not take damage. You are low on workers (only 50) and have only 2 medivacs, when ideally you would have 4. Note that if the Protoss is on 2 bases, especially on as large a map as Deadwing, there is no need for you to do damage; you can take a third base and subsequently a fourth, go up to 8 barracks or more, upgrade more, and if you can't contend with his army then you have so much more econ you can just drop and trade until you win.
At 17 minutes you take a poor fight, but it's acceptable considering your advantages. Supply is even after this, but you would be ahead if you didn't stop barracks production for about 1 full minute, floating over 1000 minerals. Note that the Protoss, despite being on less bases, has more gateways then you have barracks, and is doing better with spending his money.
Now you add on 3 more barracks, which is good, and you retain the advantage which you have had throughout the game. The protoss pushes out with an inferior army, you take a fight, eat a bad storm, and ragequit while up 30 supply and one upgrade.
What I'm trying to tell you is that despite play which could have been better, you take an advantage early on in adept defense of 2 oracles, maintain that advantage, and despite throwing away an entire army and not seizing the macro advantage as strongly as you could have, you are still ahead. If you had defended his push, you could have sealed the deal with a couple well-placed drops and a decently microed followup attack with ghosts, vikings, bio, and +2 attack with a mining fourth base behind. Sure, maybe at your level it's easier to micro Protoss armies against Terran armies, but the flipside of that is that you can improve your micro just a little bit and start demolishing Protosses who play like this guy. With some proper kiting, better concave, and a few basic emp's he would he helpless. This was a won game, and I'm sure you have had many like it. Even when you ragequit, you were still ahead and could have easily won, even with your current micro skills, and with slighly better mechanics you could have beaten him many minutes earlier. You are making it harder for yourself by being stubborn and close-minded.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On December 31 2014 03:14 llaMWell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 15:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:On December 29 2014 15:37 llaMWell wrote:
How do you guys cope with the fact that protoss is so ridiculously much easier to play lategame? I'm getting so pissed off and frustrated that I don't even know what to say. I feel like I should just uninstall, burn my PC and move on. This is so fucking stupid. I mean I keep losing to these horrible platinum players just because I literally can't manage to do anything against a turtling protoss. It doesn't matter if I'm 70 supply up simply by macroing, have millions of bases and barracks, tons of ghosts and vikings, once I have to face the army I'm dead no matter what I do.
I've tried playing toss myself for a few days to see if it really is that easy in PvT, and it seriously fucking is. After a few days of playing protoss I'm 100 % sure I would crush my own terran which I have been practicing for like 2-3 years, and I don't even know what all the protoss hotkeys are! (I'm having an easier time beating other protosses with protoss than with my main race! How fucking silly isn't that?) Like I can't be the only one feeling this way. Is this seriously how the game is meant to be? Read the second part of my response to you in the other thread: You should be asking "How do I improve my lategame vs Protoss" or "how do I win before the lategame vs Protoss" along with a replay instead of posting what comes off at worst a balance whine and at best an incredibly unspecific query which is effectively impossible to answer. We can't help you much without a replay anyway. Without a replay, we don't know what you are doing vs. Protoss currently, what is going wrong with it, etc. (Read: problems we can fix.) As is, it is clear you are doing multiple things wrong but it's impossible to tell what. I'm not doing anything "wrong" other than just being bad, which my opponents of course also are (this is platinum). I know what to do, the point is that it's just so extremely more hard to do what I have to do, than for the protoss to do what he's got to do, and that's what really gets to me. And that is a fact. Zealots and archons require ZERO micro, collossus micro is easy (they can move over everything, and they're big, thus easy to grab), and storms can be massed and spammed and kills bio in a second. At this level of play, there is essentially zero difference between an unmicroed protoss deathball and a microed one, except for the storms not being casted. So my question was: For those of you who actually realize that this is a fact, how do you cope with it? In WOL I could just overpower them mid game with better macro and never let it go to the lategame. After planetary nexus that does of course not work anymore, and it requires pressing one freakin button on protoss' part. My solution could of course be just switching to protoss, it's just that I get ZERO satisfaction beating terrans knowing how insanely much harder the whole game was for them. I don't want to play on easy mode, I just wished we all played on the same difficulty. Replay, since you asked, even though it doesn't really matter: http://drop.sc/390915This is a freakin gold league protoss. I scouted his proxy double oracle, I did what I'm supposed to do to defend it (of course he still got 10 workers, because why the fuck not), but it doesn't matter, I'm still ahead in everything, but of course I still cannot possibly close out the game and the lategame is forced which I am doomed to lose.
Fix your mindset before anything else, it is toxic to your improvement
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I'm currently trying my hand at T and it's a lot of fun, far more than what I expected. Of course I'm a lot worse with T than with P, but I'm not doing that bad (around top platinum/low diamond).
I don't have a lot of problems in TvP and TvZ, I easily found stable, safe and "repeatable" (meaning : I do the same build every game, which is what I like to do) macro build orders and I'm improving quickly (I reaper expand in both match-ups, followed by a combat shield + stim timing then standard bio with the intention of pulling scvs in TvP, and a hellbat banshees timing into a huge 14:00 mech push in TvZ). I still need to learn to dodge storms and to use ghosts in TvP -I now see how hard it is !- but I have very solid win ratios against the opponents I'm matched up against with those strategies, especially in macro games.
TvT is, alas, another story... I don't get it. Strangely enough, I don't understand PvP either. I must have a problem with mirrors, go figure.
After a lot of games where I tried to gasless or reaper expand and got destroyed, I tried to 11-11 2 rax my opponents out of frustration (with very little success !), and at last I figured out the safest way to go seemed to be a 1-1-1. I played 5 TvT games going marine hellion elevator myself with mixed success (+3 -2, all games decided before the 9:00 mark...), but I don't feel comfortable at all playing that style. It feels dirty and I wish to play something more defensive, more stable.
1) This is what I'm doing atm : 1-1-1 with naked rax producing marines until 7-8, naked factory producing hellions until 3-4, starport with tech lab for raven then viking. I build a CC in my base as soon as minerals allow and then scan the opponent's base around 6:30. I proceed to add a tech lab on the factory for tanks and then expand while building up my viking count.
Does it sound right to you, or is it (as I expect) overly defensive ? I wish to play something that is very safe and can blindly defend marine hellion medivac timings and banshees, ideally with a reaper because I get no scouting with my current build (I never worker scout). Any help would be greatly appreciated.
2) Once I secure my expand, I wish to go mech. If I recall correctly, ForGG plays a fun TvT style that features heavy hellion usage. I wish to try that style, but I can't seem to find the setup he's aiming to after he has expanded (how many factories ? Which add-ons ? When does he add armories, etc). If someone could give me some pieces of advice on that I'd be immensely grateful.
Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any help, whichever league you are. I have virtually no experience playing T (I think around 25 games those last two days) so even if you're gold you have probably more insight than me on a lot of things about T and I'll be glad to hear it.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On December 31 2014 09:34 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I'm currently trying my hand at T and it's a lot of fun, far more than what I expected. Of course I'm a lot worse with T than with P, but I'm not doing that bad (around top platinum/low diamond).
I don't have a lot of problems in TvP and TvZ, I easily found stable, safe and "repeatable" (meaning : I do the same build every game, which is what I like to do) macro build orders and I'm improving quickly (I reaper expand in both match-ups, followed by a combat shield + stim timing then standard bio with the intention of pulling scvs in TvP, and a hellbat banshees timing into a huge 14:00 mech push in TvZ). I still need to learn to dodge storms and to use ghosts in TvP -I now see how hard it is !- but I have very solid win ratios against the opponents I'm matched up against with those strategies, especially in macro games.
TvT is, alas, another story... I don't get it. Strangely enough, I don't understand PvP either. I must have a problem with mirrors, go figure.
After a lot of games where I tried to gasless or reaper expand and got destroyed, I tried to 11-11 2 rax my opponents out of frustration (with very little success !), and at last I figured out the safest way to go seemed to be a 1-1-1. I played 5 TvT games going marine hellion elevator myself with mixed success (+3 -2, all games decided before the 9:00 mark...), but I don't feel comfortable at all playing that style. It feels dirty and I wish to play something more defensive, more stable.
1) This is what I'm doing atm : 1-1-1 with naked rax producing marines until 7-8, naked factory producing hellions until 3-4, starport with tech lab for raven then viking. I build a CC in my base as soon as minerals allow and then scan the opponent's base around 6:30. I proceed to add a tech lab on the factory for tanks and then expand while building up my viking count.
Does it sound right to you, or is it (as I expect) overly defensive ? I wish to play something that is very safe and can blindly defend marine hellion medivac timings and banshees, ideally with a reaper because I get no scouting with my current build (I never worker scout). Any help would be greatly appreciated.
2) Once I secure my expand, I wish to go mech. If I recall correctly, ForGG plays a fun TvT style that features heavy hellion usage. I wish to try that style, but I can't seem to find the setup he's aiming to after he has expanded (how many factories ? Which add-ons ? When does he add armories, etc). If someone could give me some pieces of advice on that I'd be immensely grateful.
Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any help, whichever league you are. I have virtually no experience playing T (I think around 25 games those last two days) so even if you're gold you have probably more insight than me on a lot of things about T and I'll be glad to hear it.
This should help you a lot;
https://terrancraft.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/gas-first-reaper-opening-for-mech/
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EPT
