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On November 21 2014 11:18 Survivor61316 wrote:
Is there a reason why pros take gas at 12 instead of 11 when doing a gas first build? You can take it at 11 with virtually no cut in scv production (maybe like a 1-3 second delay), so I dont understand why they wait to take it. Am I just doing something wrong?
You don't need that gas that early because the earliest you get the Barracks with no SCV cut is 13. If you take gas on 12, you have almost exactly the right minerals/gas to build the Factory immediately after the Barracks finishes AND get the OC AND get a Marine. It just times really nicely, and you don't want to gather gas you aren't going to use (see: TvP 3rd and 4th geyser timings).
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On November 21 2014 13:26 Jazzman88 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 11:18 Survivor61316 wrote:
Is there a reason why pros take gas at 12 instead of 11 when doing a gas first build? You can take it at 11 with virtually no cut in scv production (maybe like a 1-3 second delay), so I dont understand why they wait to take it. Am I just doing something wrong? You don't need that gas that early because the earliest you get the Barracks with no SCV cut is 13. If you take gas on 12, you have almost exactly the right minerals/gas to build the Factory immediately after the Barracks finishes AND get the OC AND get a Marine. It just times really nicely, and you don't want to gather gas you aren't going to use (see: TvP 3rd and 4th geyser timings).
I take the gas at 11 because I get a reaper before the starport! So I need gases on 11 and 17 to have enough. Just do what you need for your build!
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On November 21 2014 11:18 Survivor61316 wrote:
Is there a reason why pros take gas at 12 instead of 11 when doing a gas first build? You can take it at 11 with virtually no cut in scv production (maybe like a 1-3 second delay), so I dont understand why they wait to take it. Am I just doing something wrong?
it's the difference between getting your Barracks OC at 15 or 16, or making the 2nd CC 1st on 14 or 15.
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On November 22 2014 13:46 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 11:18 Survivor61316 wrote:
Is there a reason why pros take gas at 12 instead of 11 when doing a gas first build? You can take it at 11 with virtually no cut in scv production (maybe like a 1-3 second delay), so I dont understand why they wait to take it. Am I just doing something wrong? it's the difference between getting your Barracks OC at 15 or 16, or making the 2nd CC 1st on 14 or 15.
But why is it different? Thats what I dont understand. If you take the gas at 12, but still before rax, then I feel like youre banking over 100 minerals for no reason. You can just take the gas on 11 without cutting scv production. The only thing I can think of is that if you take the gas at 11 you are pulling scvs off minerals quicker, meaning less minerals for a few seconds, and a delayed oc. Idk if thats right, but I cant see any other reason not to take the gas on 11 instead of uselessly banking minerals
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On November 22 2014 13:54 Survivor61316 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 13:46 Gamegene wrote:On November 21 2014 11:18 Survivor61316 wrote:
Is there a reason why pros take gas at 12 instead of 11 when doing a gas first build? You can take it at 11 with virtually no cut in scv production (maybe like a 1-3 second delay), so I dont understand why they wait to take it. Am I just doing something wrong? it's the difference between getting your Barracks OC at 15 or 16, or making the 2nd CC 1st on 14 or 15. But why is it different? Thats what I dont understand. If you take the gas at 12, but still before rax, then I feel like youre banking over 100 minerals for no reason. You can just take the gas on 11 without cutting scv production. The only thing I can think of is that if you take the gas at 11 you are pulling scvs off minerals quicker, meaning less minerals for a few seconds, and a delayed oc. Idk if thats right, but I cant see any other reason not to take the gas on 11 instead of uselessly banking minerals
if you take it on 12 you can just have the scv making the supply depot go onto making the refinery right away, you can have an newly constructed SCV pop out straight into the geyser when the refinery is finished and have exactly 100 gas when the barracks is finished.
basically the point i was making with my post is this: it's a very small preferential difference that, in the big picture, isn't all that important.
it just makes everything line up a little better.
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hey guys just wondering is reaper fast ebay +1 safer than reaper into 3 rax? in tvp i mean?
also what are the major tells of oracles?
offracing a bit on na as T but literally every tvp is a 1 base snoozefest, cant tell wether its because my terran is gold or na is just cheesier :L
also in tvt whats the best opening if you wana try mech? 1-1-1?
also TvZ weres a good place to find a build/guide on the hellbat bio thor style? i main zerg so i have a grasp on what i should be doing in the matchup but jeese the randomness of mines is killing me :L ( especially sicne i cant split)
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On November 23 2014 09:38 Enigmasc wrote:
hey guys just wondering is reaper fast ebay +1 safer than reaper into 3 rax? in tvp i mean?
also what are the major tells of oracles?
Reaper into 3rax is by far the safest. Although you have +1 to defend attacks with reaper ebay, you have so many less units it often doesn't really matter at all. You will die to any 1base blink, 2base blink, immortal sentry, 2base colossus attack (squirtle style). And the 3bay for turrets is something you can place reactively with any other build anyway if you can reliably scout oracles.
The tells for a 1base proxy oracle, when you scv scout, are saved energy on nexus, only 1 pylon, 6 workers in gas, and no mothership core (but potentially a stalker.) When you see this you need to throw down an ebay immediately, build a bunker at the front, find the proxy with your reaper and kill the probe/damage the pylon, and get two turrets down before 5:10, which is the earliest it can hit. The other way you'll probably see oracle is one after expansion. You can defend this without scouting it with 6 marines in your mineral line, which you should always do unless you see a robo go down at around 5 minutes. If it goes down any later than about 5:30, then it's probably oracle. 2base oracle isn't a big deal though if you are on top of your micro and have marines in position. Against that you can delay turrets for a while but you should probably put them down after your normal ebay timing, or earlier if you don't think you can reliably reposition marines for the next 2.5 minutes to prevent damage.
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On November 23 2014 10:03 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2014 09:38 Enigmasc wrote:
hey guys just wondering is reaper fast ebay +1 safer than reaper into 3 rax? in tvp i mean?
also what are the major tells of oracles?
Reaper into 3rax is by far the safest. Although you have +1 to defend attacks with reaper ebay, you have so many less units it often doesn't really matter at all. You will die to any 1base blink, 2base blink, immortal sentry, 2base colossus attack (squirtle style). And the 3bay for turrets is something you can place reactively with any other build anyway if you can reliably scout oracles. The tells for a 1base proxy oracle, when you scv scout, are saved energy on nexus, only 1 pylon, 6 workers in gas, and no mothership core (but potentially a stalker.) When you see this you need to throw down an ebay immediately, build a bunker at the front, find the proxy with your reaper and kill the probe/damage the pylon, and get two turrets down before 5:10, which is the earliest it can hit. The other way you'll probably see oracle is one after expansion. You can defend this without scouting it with 6 marines in your mineral line, which you should always do unless you see a robo go down at around 5 minutes. If it goes down any later than about 5:30, then it's probably oracle. 2base oracle isn't a big deal though if you are on top of your micro and have marines in position. Against that you can delay turrets for a while but you should probably put them down after your normal ebay timing, or earlier if you don't think you can reliably reposition marines for the next 2.5 minutes to prevent damage.
you don't need a bunker at the front right away vs 1 base oracle, I see most people get 2 turrets (1 in mineral line and 1 near ramp/production
you only need a bunker finished around 7-7:30 if you haven't seen an expo yet (sometimes you won't be able to check). you should lift your natural cc if there's a possibility of allin
also make sure you start your factory on time if you lift your natural cc or you will be trapped for way too long, 7 min factory at the latest
other than that this is a good post
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Can anyone teach me how to execute and properly react to my opponent when going 15 gas into marine/hellion pressure in tvp? I love the build and once it gets going I'm usually ahead, but I often die beforehand to oracles, blink stalkers, etc. Do I make a bunker before the CC? After? Are there times I don't have to make it at all (besides when I see obvious super-greed)? What about the ebay and turrets? My builds are not very refined as I don't care much about promotion, but this is one of those instances where I need to be super sharp with my reactions in order to simply not die as opposed to finding myself a little behind.
Here is a replay of a game I just played. Should've checked if he had an expo earlier, but that knowledge wouldn't have saved me anyways since I was already behind. Also my plan behind the build was to transition into mech if that makes a difference.
http://drop.sc/389363
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why do pros build a CC in their base then fly it over to the base they want?
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On November 24 2014 02:29 KtJ wrote:
why do pros build a CC in their base then fly it over to the base they want?
Because it's safer, early pressure from their opponent wont cause it to be delayed or lost.
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On November 22 2014 14:06 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 13:54 Survivor61316 wrote:On November 22 2014 13:46 Gamegene wrote:On November 21 2014 11:18 Survivor61316 wrote:
Is there a reason why pros take gas at 12 instead of 11 when doing a gas first build? You can take it at 11 with virtually no cut in scv production (maybe like a 1-3 second delay), so I dont understand why they wait to take it. Am I just doing something wrong? it's the difference between getting your Barracks OC at 15 or 16, or making the 2nd CC 1st on 14 or 15. But why is it different? Thats what I dont understand. If you take the gas at 12, but still before rax, then I feel like youre banking over 100 minerals for no reason. You can just take the gas on 11 without cutting scv production. The only thing I can think of is that if you take the gas at 11 you are pulling scvs off minerals quicker, meaning less minerals for a few seconds, and a delayed oc. Idk if thats right, but I cant see any other reason not to take the gas on 11 instead of uselessly banking minerals if you take it on 12 you can just have the scv making the supply depot go onto making the refinery right away, you can have an newly constructed SCV pop out straight into the geyser when the refinery is finished and have exactly 100 gas when the barracks is finished. basically the point i was making with my post is this: it's a very small preferential difference that, in the big picture, isn't all that important. it just makes everything line up a little better.
Oh ok gotcha, that makes sense then. Thanks ^^
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On November 24 2014 04:10 fruity. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 02:29 KtJ wrote:
why do pros build a CC in their base then fly it over to the base they want? Because it's safer, early pressure from their opponent wont cause it to be delayed or lost.
ooh thanks that confuesed me forever. thanks!
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it's a blessing and a curse to be able to float over your third, fourth, fifth...
it's convenient to start, but landing the thing and (maybe) turning it into a pf is such a hassle when you're deep into a game.
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On November 24 2014 10:40 Gamegene wrote:
it's a blessing and a curse to be able to float over your third, fourth, fifth...
it's convenient to start, but landing the thing and (maybe) turning it into a pf is such a hassle when you're deep into a game.
I don't see how it could ever be a curse. If it's difficult to land and turn into a PF it would have been even more difficult to do that while also defending it while it builds.
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hence why it's nice to be able to start it near your existing bases...
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Something that a few P players have been doing to me lately that I've never really experienced before is 1 gate proxy. They chrono out a few zealots while getting cyber and ms core at home. Previously when this had been done to me I had wrongly assumed that it was 2 gate proxy and gone to their base only to have my reaper easily thwarted.
What is the correct way to deal with this? I'm guessing I'm supposed to micro like crazy with reaper and scvs?
Apologies if this has been answered somewhere before, I searched and couldn't find anything on it that wasn't from 2010.
Edit: I should add that the gateway was not in my base, but the zealot slipped in before I could wall.
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If you scv scout before your reaper you can spot no gateway and wall off with depot and bunker and keep your reaper at home.
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Hey guys, I have limited mid-game & late-game knowledge for TvP. I have attached a replay and have a couple of questions:
-templar archive completed @ time: 14:30
-how to determine the protoss opponent transitioned into templar archive from collosus play? what are the tales? i had no idea this game, i thought he was still pumping collosus
-when should i pull scvs for an all-in attack?
-how to control ghosts (and how to position army, scans, etc) vs protoss ball with templars?
-how many more rax & cc's do i need when i'm on 4 bases?
http://drop.sc/390039
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Massive late game TvP problems
http://drop.sc/390065
I gain massive leads during the mid game and early late game, but the HT Archon army just wins every engagement, no matter how good my snipes and EMPs. I take the fights better, but still have to back off. Then all it takes is one mistake by me and he gains a massive lead.
Help?
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EPT
