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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:01 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 22:52 Paljas wrote:thats just you being shitty in TvZ, nothing more. I think that TvZ is pretty easy, but I know that my personal experience doesnt mean shit. + Show Spoiler +it takes a lot more effort to be very comfortable with terran mechanics than it does for zerg, that is what i'm saying what, terran mechanics are way more intuitive than zerg ones. 4aaadaaaa isnt a concept difficult to understand. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that i'm shitty at TvZ, hell, I am shitty T period in fact i am shitty at sc2 (just watched my zvz for fun, wow that looks like bronze play seriously). terran mechanics might not be more intuitive than zerg ones but i'm not talking about that, i'm talking about how difficult it is to get truly comfortable with macro. the zerg larva mechanic allows for macro mistakes to be much more easily fixed. terran production is extremely unforgiving, if you miss a round of units, too bad for you. i don't feel like arguing nor saying that i am right and everyone else is wrong, i just think that playing terran is very difficult, much more so than zerg and that is frustrating tbh
TvZ is very build order oreintated, the majority of 'macro' builds that go into a 3CC generally have very important timings or benchmarks to hit.
If you miss or don't hit these, the match-up can seem a little silly because the Zerg can simply overwhelm you in the mid game.
If you want any advice or replay analysis on TvZ, gimmie a PM.
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On November 08 2014 23:52 mau5mat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 23:01 Incognoto wrote:On November 08 2014 22:52 Paljas wrote:thats just you being shitty in TvZ, nothing more. I think that TvZ is pretty easy, but I know that my personal experience doesnt mean shit. + Show Spoiler +it takes a lot more effort to be very comfortable with terran mechanics than it does for zerg, that is what i'm saying what, terran mechanics are way more intuitive than zerg ones. 4aaadaaaa isnt a concept difficult to understand. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that i'm shitty at TvZ, hell, I am shitty T period in fact i am shitty at sc2 (just watched my zvz for fun, wow that looks like bronze play seriously). terran mechanics might not be more intuitive than zerg ones but i'm not talking about that, i'm talking about how difficult it is to get truly comfortable with macro. the zerg larva mechanic allows for macro mistakes to be much more easily fixed. terran production is extremely unforgiving, if you miss a round of units, too bad for you. i don't feel like arguing nor saying that i am right and everyone else is wrong, i just think that playing terran is very difficult, much more so than zerg and that is frustrating tbh TvZ is very build order oreintated, the majority of 'macro' builds that go into a 3CC generally have very important timings or benchmarks to hit. If you miss or don't hit these, the match-up can seem a little silly because the Zerg can simply overwhelm you in the mid game. If you want any advice or replay analysis on TvZ, gimmie a PM.
an hour later i come back to this thread with a calmer mindset and i think that i agree with you. my builds simply aren't up to scratch at all. i think i'll need to study builds quite carefully in order to truly play things correctly. i think that i played a lot of zerg in the past so my muscle memory is more zerg oriented than towards terran. zerg is more about droning / not droning then putting down buildings in a specific order as well.
i guess terran is more rigid in the way it plays out then zerg, which is something i just can't wrap my head around. thanks for this post, it makes sense, i'll be looking to whine less and focus more on understanding the race i'm playing/.
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On November 09 2014 00:12 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 23:52 mau5mat wrote:On November 08 2014 23:01 Incognoto wrote:On November 08 2014 22:52 Paljas wrote:thats just you being shitty in TvZ, nothing more. I think that TvZ is pretty easy, but I know that my personal experience doesnt mean shit. + Show Spoiler +it takes a lot more effort to be very comfortable with terran mechanics than it does for zerg, that is what i'm saying what, terran mechanics are way more intuitive than zerg ones. 4aaadaaaa isnt a concept difficult to understand. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that i'm shitty at TvZ, hell, I am shitty T period in fact i am shitty at sc2 (just watched my zvz for fun, wow that looks like bronze play seriously). terran mechanics might not be more intuitive than zerg ones but i'm not talking about that, i'm talking about how difficult it is to get truly comfortable with macro. the zerg larva mechanic allows for macro mistakes to be much more easily fixed. terran production is extremely unforgiving, if you miss a round of units, too bad for you. i don't feel like arguing nor saying that i am right and everyone else is wrong, i just think that playing terran is very difficult, much more so than zerg and that is frustrating tbh TvZ is very build order oreintated, the majority of 'macro' builds that go into a 3CC generally have very important timings or benchmarks to hit. If you miss or don't hit these, the match-up can seem a little silly because the Zerg can simply overwhelm you in the mid game. If you want any advice or replay analysis on TvZ, gimmie a PM. an hour later i come back to this thread with a calmer mindset and i think that i agree with you. my builds simply aren't up to scratch at all. i think i'll need to study builds quite carefully in order to truly play things correctly. i think that i played a lot of zerg in the past so my muscle memory is more zerg oriented than towards terran. zerg is more about droning / not droning then putting down buildings in a specific order as well. i guess terran is more rigid in the way it plays out then zerg, which is something i just can't wrap my head around. thanks for this post, it makes sense, i'll be looking to whine less and focus more on understanding the race i'm playing/.
Things that will screw you over as terran much more than Zerg are supply blocks and gaps in any kind of production, because it is so much more linear and rigid than the other races. However, you don't need to choose when to make units as any build will have you always building both. You'll find that builds are pretty inflexible but there is room for a lot of creativity in army movement.
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On November 08 2014 23:01 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 22:52 Paljas wrote:thats just you being shitty in TvZ, nothing more. I think that TvZ is pretty easy, but I know that my personal experience doesnt mean shit. + Show Spoiler +it takes a lot more effort to be very comfortable with terran mechanics than it does for zerg, that is what i'm saying what, terran mechanics are way more intuitive than zerg ones. 4aaadaaaa isnt a concept difficult to understand. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that i'm shitty at TvZ, hell, I am shitty T period in fact i am shitty at sc2 (just watched my zvz for fun, wow that looks like bronze play seriously). terran mechanics might not be more intuitive than zerg ones but i'm not talking about that, i'm talking about how difficult it is to get truly comfortable with macro. the zerg larva mechanic allows for macro mistakes to be much more easily fixed. terran production is extremely unforgiving, if you miss a round of units, too bad for you. i don't feel like arguing nor saying that i am right and everyone else is wrong, i just think that playing terran is very difficult, much more so than zerg and that is frustrating tbh
Its a purely subjective thing.
Macro wise I find Zerg, then terran, then protoss the easiest.
Micro wise I find Zerg, then terran, then protoss the easiest.
Strategy wise I find Terran, then Protoss, then Zerg the easiest.
So I play terran, and can do well with zerg but keep getting hard countered.
Its all subjective.
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how many marines do i need to deny overlord scouts?
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On November 11 2014 01:58 KtJ wrote:
how many marines do i need to deny overlord scouts?
It really depends on a lot of factors - where your tech is that you want hidden, where the Overlord is coming from, and how early you spot it, etc.
2 Marines do a decent job if you get shots on it the moment it's in range, and 3 will deny most Overlords from getting all of your base if you pick it up late. 3 will guarantee no good scout if they hit it from range.
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On November 11 2014 01:58 KtJ wrote:
how many marines do i need to deny overlord scouts?
at higher levels, you want no more then 2. Showing any additional marines can potentially tip a zerg player off to what build you are doing depending when he sacs his overlord.
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On November 11 2014 15:20 Jazzman88 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 01:58 KtJ wrote:
how many marines do i need to deny overlord scouts? It really depends on a lot of factors - where your tech is that you want hidden, where the Overlord is coming from, and how early you spot it, etc. 2 Marines do a decent job if you get shots on it the moment it's in range, and 3 will deny most Overlords from getting all of your base if you pick it up late. 3 will guarantee no good scout if they hit it from range.
Thanks
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Hey guys!
I wondered if any of you had some cool strats against protoss and zerg on Xel'naga caverns? Is old school 1 base 1/1/1 viable? should I focus on big 2 base timings? or can I try to get a third and play a macro game?
thx 
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On November 12 2014 05:11 Gwavajuice wrote:Hey guys! I wondered if any of you had some cool strats against protoss and zerg on Xel'naga caverns? Is old school 1 base 1/1/1 viable? should I focus on big 2 base timings? or can I try to get a third and play a macro game? thx
2 base allin all day every day. Against Protoss, 5 rax Bio+Medivac+Mine if Templar, SCV pull with double Starport if Colossi.
Against Terran, mass Blue Flame Hellion + Tank allin ForGG style.
Against Zerg, 5 Rax Tanks on two bases, siege his front and crush him.
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On November 12 2014 06:33 Jazzman88 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 05:11 Gwavajuice wrote:Hey guys! I wondered if any of you had some cool strats against protoss and zerg on Xel'naga caverns? Is old school 1 base 1/1/1 viable? should I focus on big 2 base timings? or can I try to get a third and play a macro game? thx 2 base allin all day every day. Against Protoss, 5 rax Bio+Medivac+Mine if Templar, SCV pull with double Starport if Colossi. Against Terran, mass Blue Flame Hellion + Tank allin ForGG style. Against Zerg, 5 Rax Tanks on two bases, siege his front and crush him.
When you go 2base tank allin do you open with reactor hellions, reaper, or what?
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What's the most stable TvT opening against aggressive proxy builds such as 8/8/8, proxy rauder, 11/13 reaper 2rax, etc? I am a stalwart 12gas banshee player, and that has been sufficient to hold off these kinds of builds on previous map pools, but it feels like current maps are just a bit too small to comfortably defend if my opponent has good macro.
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1 in TvP if im going the Reactor reaper expand into 3rax, at which time do i need to start the Ebay ?
2 as a terran player, which of the new maps #dreampool do i need to veto ? is there anything especific about these maps that i should know ?
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On November 12 2014 14:41 miky_ardiente wrote:
1 in TvP if im going the Reactor reaper expand into 3rax, at which time do i need to start the Ebay ?
2 as a terran player, which of the new maps #dreampool do i need to veto ? is there anything especific about these maps that i should know ?
For #2, I'm maybe vetoing Cloud Kingdom because it's tough vs protoss (blink and no airspace) but all the other maps are good. You should probably go 12/14 rax or reactor hellion expo vs. zerg on Xel'naga and Metalopolis. Everything else doesn't really change all that much, except I like to do stim timings vs. Protoss on Xel'naga and Metalopolis (against the few Protoss that don't have them vetoed) as an anti-blink measure and also because the naturals are impossible to defend for both sides.
I'd like to know what the best 2 base builds out of a reactor hellion expo are (like what people generally used in 2011.) I was in bronze until Lings of Liberty came along so I don't really know what everyone used to do.
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On November 12 2014 14:10 Fission wrote:
What's the most stable TvT opening against aggressive proxy builds such as 8/8/8, proxy rauder, 11/13 reaper 2rax, etc? I am a stalwart 12gas banshee player, and that has been sufficient to hold off these kinds of builds on previous map pools, but it feels like current maps are just a bit too small to comfortably defend if my opponent has good macro.
The most stable opening has to be gaz first into 1/1/1. It provides enough units and tech to face anything and has a huge adaptability that allows you to react to anything. Plus, if you're not proxied you'll be offensive and hopefully damage your opponent.
Open with marine helions medivac, then see what happens.
With the new map pool, a lot of T seems to go proxy atm, but franckly it's kinda stupid cause these strats are not any stronger than they were on the previous map pools, just stick to gaz first as if it was last season, scout and you will laugh at all these strat.
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On November 12 2014 14:41 miky_ardiente wrote:
1 in TvP if im going the Reactor reaper expand into 3rax, at which time do i need to start the Ebay ?
2 as a terran player, which of the new maps #dreampool do i need to veto ? is there anything especific about these maps that i should know ?
1 - The ebay timing is a big question and has no definitive answer. It's VERY situationnal. If you look closely at pro's game you'll see huge variations. There are a few things that can be said though :
- build it early if you see 2 gaz being mined with 6 probes or if a pylon is missing in his base. DT or oracle may come.
- you can also build it early if you want a fast +1 timing. Early marines with +1/shield can be devastating (stim is extremely delayed though) Note this combines well with the first point : early turret to defend oracles into early marine push.
- then it's all about preference and game plan : how do you spend your gaz? do you go stim->+1-> facto, stim ->facto-> +1, do you make mines? etc... All of these are viables and each will give you specific timings for attacks, what is important is to know when is your attack window with whatever combination you choose.
- sounds stupid, but don't forget about your vespene : the moment when you take your extra gazes is determined by the moment when you want your upgrades, be sure to adapt that part of your build too...
2 - none of the maps is really bad for terrans, just play what you enjoy
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On November 12 2014 06:39 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 06:33 Jazzman88 wrote:On November 12 2014 05:11 Gwavajuice wrote:Hey guys! I wondered if any of you had some cool strats against protoss and zerg on Xel'naga caverns? Is old school 1 base 1/1/1 viable? should I focus on big 2 base timings? or can I try to get a third and play a macro game? thx 2 base allin all day every day. Against Protoss, 5 rax Bio+Medivac+Mine if Templar, SCV pull with double Starport if Colossi. Against Terran, mass Blue Flame Hellion + Tank allin ForGG style. Against Zerg, 5 Rax Tanks on two bases, siege his front and crush him. When you go 2base tank allin do you open with reactor hellions, reaper, or what?
Typically I open 15-gas 1-1-1 expand with lots of Hellion+Viking defense.
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So i have been playing this game on and off since its release and I have always been in the Diamond league. I have never got into Masters because i have since day1 always had huge problems vs a decent protoss player and the matchup feels very "unfun" to me which have always led me to quit the game after playing 1-2 months.
It just seems to me that a Terran player has to get the perfect mix of units, use ghost emp perfectly, kite with vikings flawlessly and stim and stutter step with marines n maruaders... all this at the same time.. while dropping (that gets shutdown by warpin)... to ever stand a chance vs a decent protoss and meanwhile the protoss seems to only A-move a deathball and target storms over my army thats almost impossible to completly dodge. If i execute it perfectly i barely win, if i mess up my army gets steamrolled so hard the word 'uninstall' pops up in my head.
So can someone give me some advice? Has some tutorial ever been made on this? I feel weaker than protoss from start to finish and protoss always seems to be in command of the game to me.
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On November 13 2014 12:11 spajn wrote:
So i have been playing this game on and off since its release and I have always been in the Diamond league. I have never got into Masters because i have since day1 always had huge problems vs a decent protoss player and the matchup feels very "unfun" to me which have always led me to quit the game after playing 1-2 months.
It just seems to me that a Terran player has to get the perfect mix of units, use ghost emp perfectly, kite with vikings flawlessly and stim and stutter step with marines n maruaders... all this at the same time.. while dropping (that gets shutdown by warpin)... to ever stand a chance vs a decent protoss and meanwhile the protoss seems to only A-move a deathball and target storms over my army thats almost impossible to completly dodge. If i execute it perfectly i barely win, if i mess up my army gets steamrolled so hard the word 'uninstall' pops up in my head.
So can someone give me some advice? Has some tutorial ever been made on this? I feel weaker than protoss from start to finish and protoss always seems to be in command of the game to me.
Honestly the situation you describe is not real anymore, although the current map pool is shaking the meta a lot. There were plenty of patches, the most terrible blink maps were removed, mines recieved huge buffs, MSC got nerfed and life has been easier in TvP lately.
for guides, check EJK's thread, alot of interesting stuff in there :
here
Day9 made a daily on Flash TvP in IEM toronto finals which gives a good vision of the current meta :
here
And I would recommand watching Bomber vs Rain in KeSPA cup, Polt vs Classic Blizzcon Ro16, MMA stardust Blizzcon ro16 and MMA vs Classic Blizzcon ro4, it will give you a good vision of what can be done and you'll see high quality games on top of that
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Is there a reason why pros take gas at 12 instead of 11 when doing a gas first build? You can take it at 11 with virtually no cut in scv production (maybe like a 1-3 second delay), so I dont understand why they wait to take it. Am I just doing something wrong?
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EPT
