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On March 31 2013 20:26 mokumoku wrote:
im literally raging right now, i keep losing to protoss who go storm.
i am so bad at controlling ghosts plus army its not even funny. they are 1-1 upgrades and im already at 3-3 with like 4+ bases and i lose my whole 200/200 army because i can't control ghosts while they a move and storm everything.
help anyone? i need something to help with ghost control.
plat player btw.
you've got a few options.
One, get a friend and go to unit tester and replay maxed army battles or continue from replay to play specific battles until you get better at it.
Two, there's a nice map called darglein multitasking trainer where you deal with various stuff while controlling bio/ghost and macroing. Even though it's wol and not hots in tvp it's still quite similar anyway.
This is one of the trickier micros in the game, so watching some pro replays of lategame tvp is probably a good idea.
You need to constantly be moving back and forth throwing an emp every once in a while, sniping templars and waiting for them to make a mistake.
Of course there are ways to circumvent this massive engagement like someone above me said - go for doom drops, drop them all over the place, try to make a big mess and hope to come out on top while outexpanding/macroing them.
In the chaos you may catch some stray high templars and reduce their count.
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so do you guys have your main army minus ghosts on 1 control group and all your ghosts on another?
or your main army + ghosts on 1 control group and the ghosts on another as well?
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On March 31 2013 22:26 mokumoku wrote:
so do you guys have your main army minus ghosts on 1 control group and all your ghosts on another?
or your main army + ghosts on 1 control group and the ghosts on another as well?
Separate hotkeys.
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On March 31 2013 22:54 Bwall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 22:26 mokumoku wrote:
so do you guys have your main army minus ghosts on 1 control group and all your ghosts on another?
or your main army + ghosts on 1 control group and the ghosts on another as well? Separate hotkeys.
This.
You want at least 3 hotkeys vs toss, Bio, Ghosts, and vikings. Some players play/played with medivacs on 4.
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On March 31 2013 22:26 mokumoku wrote:
so do you guys have your main army minus ghosts on 1 control group and all your ghosts on another?
or your main army + ghosts on 1 control group and the ghosts on another as well?
3 Hotkeys like already said and at least 10 ghosts or so. With 10ghosts just mass emp everything. Its pretty hard to miss the HTs then.
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thanks for the help guys.
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On March 31 2013 14:36 AKomrade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 12:37 ConQueR wrote:On March 31 2013 10:51 Nexic wrote:
Does anyone play a MMM + hellbat style in TvZ? Or would I be better off incorporating mines? I have seen some mentions of the hellbat style (more so on reddit), but would definitely be interested in more detail. My only worry with mines is blowing up my own army and additional micro introduced with them. TvP There are 3 opening that I've been using 1. Reactor Rax expand followed up by Window mines 2. 1 Rax FE. This normally prompts some sort of Stargate based all in or extreme macro from the Protoss 3. 2 Rax Expand. This involves getting conc shells and pressuring the Protoss or just containing them if they got a Mcore. 2 RAX IS PLAYABLE NOW?! Are they proxied or no?
No proxy. The way I've been working with this build is to put pressure on the Protoss either by killing them outright if they don't have an Mcore or keeping them contained. You have to watch out for oracles and that's why I normally get an E-bay for turrets. Also you end up playing really greedy behind the contain so you can catch up on tech and economy. Yes it's been working practically 90% of the time for me.
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On April 01 2013 03:23 ConQueR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 14:36 AKomrade wrote:On March 31 2013 12:37 ConQueR wrote:On March 31 2013 10:51 Nexic wrote:
Does anyone play a MMM + hellbat style in TvZ? Or would I be better off incorporating mines? I have seen some mentions of the hellbat style (more so on reddit), but would definitely be interested in more detail. My only worry with mines is blowing up my own army and additional micro introduced with them. TvP There are 3 opening that I've been using 1. Reactor Rax expand followed up by Window mines 2. 1 Rax FE. This normally prompts some sort of Stargate based all in or extreme macro from the Protoss 3. 2 Rax Expand. This involves getting conc shells and pressuring the Protoss or just containing them if they got a Mcore. 2 RAX IS PLAYABLE NOW?! Are they proxied or no? No proxy. The way I've been working with this build is to put pressure on the Protoss either by killing them outright if they don't have an Mcore or keeping them contained. You have to watch out for oracles and that's why I normally get an E-bay for turrets. Also you end up playing really greedy behind the contain so you can catch up on tech and economy. Yes it's been working practically 90% of the time for me.
Post a replay. There should be no way a two rax on these new maps (sizes) with new units should ever work. It already was trash against protoss at the end of WoL, and at BEST a surprise strategy. Now, with almost every protoss getting no 'early' nexus, and going 2 gas -> MsC... two rax should never work, or EVER contain a protoss...
Pull some probes, time warp your ball of units, and just pick away with stalker/zeal/probe/MsC, and collect their free XP.
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fe is even less mandatory in hots, there are more aggression things
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On April 01 2013 04:08 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 03:23 ConQueR wrote:On March 31 2013 14:36 AKomrade wrote:On March 31 2013 12:37 ConQueR wrote:On March 31 2013 10:51 Nexic wrote:
Does anyone play a MMM + hellbat style in TvZ? Or would I be better off incorporating mines? I have seen some mentions of the hellbat style (more so on reddit), but would definitely be interested in more detail. My only worry with mines is blowing up my own army and additional micro introduced with them. TvP There are 3 opening that I've been using 1. Reactor Rax expand followed up by Window mines 2. 1 Rax FE. This normally prompts some sort of Stargate based all in or extreme macro from the Protoss 3. 2 Rax Expand. This involves getting conc shells and pressuring the Protoss or just containing them if they got a Mcore. 2 RAX IS PLAYABLE NOW?! Are they proxied or no? No proxy. The way I've been working with this build is to put pressure on the Protoss either by killing them outright if they don't have an Mcore or keeping them contained. You have to watch out for oracles and that's why I normally get an E-bay for turrets. Also you end up playing really greedy behind the contain so you can catch up on tech and economy. Yes it's been working practically 90% of the time for me. Post a replay. There should be no way a two rax on these new maps (sizes) with new units should ever work. It already was trash against protoss at the end of WoL, and at BEST a surprise strategy. Now, with almost every protoss getting no 'early' nexus, and going 2 gas -> MsC... two rax should never work, or EVER contain a protoss... Pull some probes, time warp your ball of units, and just pick away with stalker/zeal/probe/MsC, and collect their free XP.
Star Station P opens 1 gate stargate expand.
http://drop.sc/316428
Star Station P opens really greedy not the best example
http://drop.sc/316435
I don't use the build that often and sadly haven't saved all my replays but these are all from my "Recent" replays that have been saved.
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how do you play versus toss who goes for templar first?
on what do you base your gameplay versus this opening?
i usually open with reactor rax into 1/1/1 and transition into a bio play, which are the best options in this situation?
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It depends on when you scout that they are definitely going for templar tech. If you scout it before hand in time for ghosts I'd suggest getting reactor starport and reactor factory so you can get hellbats and drops + ghosts + standard Rines and Rauders. If you scout it too late I suggest trying to get out ghosts as quick as possible and distract the protoss from attacking you head on. You can do this with drops or any other sort of harass. The reason I suggest going hellbats when protoss goes templar tech first is that they will dump extra minerals into zealots and they'll probably end up getting charge. Hellbats are really great vs zealots and provide a good buffer between your front line and your damage dealers mainly marines. It's sometimes even a good idea to get mech armor in later stages of the game. I personally add a few hellbats in after starport is started even if their not going templar tech first.
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What is the best strategy If I open 1 rax reactor expand and I scout that toss is going 1 gate FE? Do I try do damage with widow mine drop, do damage with some kind of 10 min attack or take an early 3rd expansion?
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On April 01 2013 09:07 Kvassten wrote:
What is the best strategy If I open 1 rax reactor expand and I scout that toss is going 1 gate FE? Do I try do damage with widow mine drop, do damage with some kind of 10 min attack or take an early 3rd expansion?
Poke with the widow mine drop (obviously you don't need to commit if he is super defensive), then transition into standard bio play (although you can go pretty nuts with multi-drop antics with sufficient Turbovacs). The philosophy of TvP has not changed much in HotS, just the early/midgame tech. You still want to be denying thirds as long as possible, countering his AoE tech of choice with either Ghosts or Vikings, and getting good upgrades.
Do be cautious about Stargate follow-ups... even when not proxied, Oracles are super super strong.
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On March 31 2013 14:53 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 14:36 AKomrade wrote:On March 31 2013 12:37 ConQueR wrote:On March 31 2013 10:51 Nexic wrote:
Does anyone play a MMM + hellbat style in TvZ? Or would I be better off incorporating mines? I have seen some mentions of the hellbat style (more so on reddit), but would definitely be interested in more detail. My only worry with mines is blowing up my own army and additional micro introduced with them. TvP There are 3 opening that I've been using 1. Reactor Rax expand followed up by Window mines 2. 1 Rax FE. This normally prompts some sort of Stargate based all in or extreme macro from the Protoss 3. 2 Rax Expand. This involves getting conc shells and pressuring the Protoss or just containing them if they got a Mcore. 2 RAX IS PLAYABLE NOW?! Are they proxied or no? With modern protoss all going 2 stalker + MSC or stalker/zeal/MSC, and planetary nexus... I don't see 2 rax working at all vs P anymore.
No kind of Barracks Pressure Works with MSC. Unless the Protoss is really bad.
Has anyone tried 2 Factory aggression against Protoss in HOTS? I've had some success going WM + Tank. Usually bringing a couple SCVs to repair the Tank from the Nexus Cannon. Hilariously I had forgotten that WM get +45 dmg against Shield so they knock out Immortal Shields pretty quick.
I've just hate when you push out and then die to 2 Oracles T_T.
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On April 01 2013 09:34 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 14:53 iAmJeffReY wrote:On March 31 2013 14:36 AKomrade wrote:On March 31 2013 12:37 ConQueR wrote:On March 31 2013 10:51 Nexic wrote:
Does anyone play a MMM + hellbat style in TvZ? Or would I be better off incorporating mines? I have seen some mentions of the hellbat style (more so on reddit), but would definitely be interested in more detail. My only worry with mines is blowing up my own army and additional micro introduced with them. TvP There are 3 opening that I've been using 1. Reactor Rax expand followed up by Window mines 2. 1 Rax FE. This normally prompts some sort of Stargate based all in or extreme macro from the Protoss 3. 2 Rax Expand. This involves getting conc shells and pressuring the Protoss or just containing them if they got a Mcore. 2 RAX IS PLAYABLE NOW?! Are they proxied or no? With modern protoss all going 2 stalker + MSC or stalker/zeal/MSC, and planetary nexus... I don't see 2 rax working at all vs P anymore. No kind of Barracks Pressure Works with MSC. Unless the Protoss is really bad. Has anyone tried 2 Factory aggression against Protoss in HOTS? I've had some success going WM + Tank. Usually bringing a couple SCVs to repair the Tank from the Nexus Cannon. Hilariously I had forgotten that WM get +45 dmg against Shield so they knock out Immortal Shields pretty quick. I've just hate when you push out and then die to 2 Oracles T_T.
haha this wants me to try making an sc2 version of FD
EDIT- ill work on it, actually...GOGOGO
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On April 01 2013 10:13 rice_devOurer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 09:34 GinDo wrote:On March 31 2013 14:53 iAmJeffReY wrote:On March 31 2013 14:36 AKomrade wrote:On March 31 2013 12:37 ConQueR wrote:On March 31 2013 10:51 Nexic wrote:
Does anyone play a MMM + hellbat style in TvZ? Or would I be better off incorporating mines? I have seen some mentions of the hellbat style (more so on reddit), but would definitely be interested in more detail. My only worry with mines is blowing up my own army and additional micro introduced with them. TvP There are 3 opening that I've been using 1. Reactor Rax expand followed up by Window mines 2. 1 Rax FE. This normally prompts some sort of Stargate based all in or extreme macro from the Protoss 3. 2 Rax Expand. This involves getting conc shells and pressuring the Protoss or just containing them if they got a Mcore. 2 RAX IS PLAYABLE NOW?! Are they proxied or no? With modern protoss all going 2 stalker + MSC or stalker/zeal/MSC, and planetary nexus... I don't see 2 rax working at all vs P anymore. No kind of Barracks Pressure Works with MSC. Unless the Protoss is really bad. Has anyone tried 2 Factory aggression against Protoss in HOTS? I've had some success going WM + Tank. Usually bringing a couple SCVs to repair the Tank from the Nexus Cannon. Hilariously I had forgotten that WM get +45 dmg against Shield so they knock out Immortal Shields pretty quick. I've just hate when you push out and then die to 2 Oracles T_T. haha this wants me to try making an sc2 version of FD EDIT- ill work on it, actually...GOGOGO
actually I thought of that long time ago, and asked my masters friend to do it, but then died to a stargate expo... and etc
and then I was like screw that I'm just gonna learn standard play for now.
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How do I deal with sustained Oracle pressure? I'm losing even though I have turrets cause they gobble up my marines.
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In TvT, if I go a 4 hellion drop and my opponent does the same thing as well, and we both drop in each others bases w/ no other units around for defense, what is the best and safest course of action to ensure that I come out on top of the trade? As of right now, I just send all my SCVs across the map while concentrating on my hellions. Is there a better way to do this? Should I immediately make widow mines out of my reactored factory and place them around for defense? Should I leave marines at my mineral line?
I'm mid-Masters if it helps. Thanks!
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On April 01 2013 11:19 Sherlock-Canada wrote:
How do I deal with sustained Oracle pressure? I'm losing even though I have turrets cause they gobble up my marines.
Mines man. I use 2 to defend. One in the most likely oracle entrance and one in my mineral line.
How are you guys dealing with Swarm Hosts? I've been struggling alot when the Z gets like 8-10 swarm hosts and I dont have tanks. He usually sits them just infront of a huge roach or muta ling army so I cant just run in scan and kill them.
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EPT
