EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 34
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On April 02 2013 00:19 Baum wrote: So how do you scout in time. You can usually scout for double gas and a missing pylon and rescout the natural for an expansion around 5:10 but then your scv gets killed and the only thing you can do is send out another one and scan and if you miss the tech there is no way of knowing for sure and you will already have to prepare for oracles which will make it impossible to also prepare for blink and immortals. Couple of things: Firstly, I'm getting a red flag for mindset from your posts (if I'm wrong, I apologize, because it's tough to tell 'tone' over the Internet). It feels like you have decided that preparing is ineffective no matter what, which is probably impairing your ability to effectively utilize information. Secondly, you have to infer via a series of checks and balances. If you see no expansion, that means his Stalker is not at the front of his base (or if it is, you can slip out another SCV to wait). If you see no third pylon, you just check the proxy spots and you should be able to find it because he can't have enough stuff to prevent you finding it from one direction or another. So that takes care of proxies. If you see no proxies, you have to count the amount and types of units. Zealot then Sentry follow-ups are more common for Immortal all-ins. Just like in the prior example, if you can keep the SCV alive, that's fine, you simply keep it near his base and try to spot the move out. If you can't keep the SCV alive, you should be sneaking out a Marine or SCV while he's denying the first so you see the pylons and forces that are being deployed. Blink is almost always not proxied. If you see a third in-base pylon, double gas, and no expo, you have to scan in a position that gets both the third pylon and as much of the main as possible, because he HAS to get Blink out soon, and that means you have a decent shot at getting the Twilight Council with the Scan. So burn that scan as soon as you can once you confirm no expo. If you see Blink going down, then you must immediately regroup in the main and get Tanks. Cover all the high ground blink-in spots and delay as much as possible. With 2 OC, you can pull 1 SCV off gas and a few more preemptively to guard the Bunkers going down. While Immortals are good, they are NOT as strong in the HotS metagame as in the WoL one. You SHOULD be able to determine the Oracle play or not, because if you scout no expo, then you scan his third pylon, and see the Stargate, you get the Oracle confirmation. If it's not Stargate and it's not a proxy play (again, you should be able to find the proxy), then you have exactly 2 options: robo all-in or Blink. Withdraw to high ground, SCAN for the sake of all that is good, and prep for Blink with Bunkers and Tanks. You'll defend most things with that mentality, assuming correct control. Above all, you cannot let yourself succumb to the idea that 'it's pointless to prepare', because that means you start the game at a disadvantage regardless of what your opponent plays. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
I've been going CC first in my TvP's and TvT's and 1 barracks FE in TvZ. I then follow up with 3 barracks, +1, and starport in TvT and TvP, and in TvZ I've been using the build from series 2 set 2 of this GSL VOD set, Innovation vs DRG, with a few tweaks to try and make it work against Zerg's openers in HotS such as getting two widow mines and four hellions instead of six hellions. My problem is that nothing feels as solid anymore, compared to the 1 barracks FE from WoL which was extremely good in every match up. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On April 02 2013 07:05 Fencar wrote: What are you guys doing concerning HotS openers? I've been going CC first in my TvP's and TvT's and 1 barracks FE in TvZ. I then follow up with 3 barracks, +1, and starport in TvT and TvP, and in TvZ I've been using the build from series 2 set 2 of this GSL VOD set, Innovation vs DRG, with a few tweaks to try and make it work against Zerg's openers in HotS such as getting two widow mines and four hellions instead of six hellions. My problem is that nothing feels as solid anymore, compared to the 1 barracks FE from WoL which was extremely good in every match up. 1rax FE for me in TvT and TvZ, just to be prepared for the eventuall fast reaper or six pool. 1/1/1 in TvP, because I struggle extremely with one base all-ins from protoss when going 1rax FE while playing mech. | ||
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Thewhiteman
France5 Posts
What do you think about this build ? TvT: Reaper into freestyle, I'm completely lost help me TvP : Playing like in WoL, the classic 1rax expand into Bio/medivac push arround 10 (+1atq, stim, shield, concussive shell) Works pretty fine but I need something new Btw I'm master on EU serv. | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On April 02 2013 07:51 Thor.Rush wrote: Is mech viable at all in TvZ at high master level? In WoL it worked if your opponent didn't know how to properly beat mech (roach drops etc), or you killed a lot of drones with early harass. On some maps you could turtle with mech. Now in HotS, mech gets completely raped by vipers. Hydras protect the vipers from vikings... so is mech basically useless now? Please tell me I'm completely wrong because I'm getting sad =( It is, HTOMario uses Mech a lot in GM. Here's a link to his stream: http://www.twitch.tv/htomario | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
On April 02 2013 07:05 Fencar wrote: What are you guys doing concerning HotS openers? I've been going CC first in my TvP's and TvT's and 1 barracks FE in TvZ. I then follow up with 3 barracks, +1, and starport in TvT and TvP, and in TvZ I've been using the build from series 2 set 2 of this GSL VOD set, Innovation vs DRG, with a few tweaks to try and make it work against Zerg's openers in HotS such as getting two widow mines and four hellions instead of six hellions. My problem is that nothing feels as solid anymore, compared to the 1 barracks FE from WoL which was extremely good in every match up. I do 1 rax reaper pressure Zerg while triple CC and then 4 raxes. Make sure to wall in carefully and control reapers for as long as possible. About 3-4 reapers to make Zerg thinks that you're going very aggressive. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On April 02 2013 08:44 tuho12345 wrote: I do 1 rax reaper pressure Zerg while triple CC and then 4 raxes. Make sure to wall in carefully and control reapers for as long as possible. About 3-4 reapers to make Zerg thinks that you're going very aggressive. I used to do reaper pressure but I always ended up screwing up my macro, so I switched back to 1 barracks FE. Plus, the Zerg would just make speedlings and contain me on one base until I got a large marine count up. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Some things are not yet finished, so don't be surprised if you see "WIP" (Work in progress) in some of the answers. | ||
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Thienan567
United States670 Posts
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On April 02 2013 13:17 Thienan567 wrote: What are some of your hotkey setups? Trying to switch to terran from zerg, as zerg I hotkey my hatches to 5, this translated to hotkeying my CCs to 5, and when it's time for a macro cycle my fingers press 5 and not 4, which is usually my production. And I end up producing nothing because my fingers are spamming A or D or E or something rofl My terran hotkeys are: 1 for all raxes, 2 for all MMM, 3 for factories/medivacs, 4-7 for CCs, W (rebound from 8) for all OCs, [space bar] (rebound from 9) for all upgrade buildings (ebays, academies), Q for tanks/widowmines/ghosts, F1-F5 as camera hotkeys A lot of players seem to prefer having either 4/5 as all CCs and using camera hotkeys to jump around, with 1-3 as different parts of an army, rax on 4/5, factories/starports on 6/7, and upgrades on 8 and then 9 and 0 are used for miscellaneous stuff. EDIT: I think the general rule is you should never have all your army on one hotkey, you should always keep rax, OCs, and all other buildings separate, and use your F keys. | ||
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BigAsia
Canada451 Posts
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SuPerFlyTNT
United States145 Posts
On April 01 2013 20:09 eMGmoG wrote: I found this build to be awesome vs Z. It gives you map control and scouting, you can defend allins pretty good with it (make mines instead of hellions if you scout any 2 base allin). If Z plays greedy, you can punish him with runbys, if he plays to defensive, your eco will skyrocket you into a stomping win. Take 1-2 scvs with your hellion/reaper army in the early game. then you can poke and heal/repair. If you dont have the apm to do that, just camp watchtowers and his 3rd so you know whats coming. Reaper Expand with Hellions into Bio Widow Mine(Innovation Vs Leenock) - 12 Rax - 12 Gas - Reaper(x2) - CC after 2nd Reaper - Factory - Reactor on Rax - 3rd CC - Hellion(x6) - Techlab on Rax - Start Stim ASAP - 2nd Gas when Stim starts - Use Factory to make another 2 Reactors - Double Rax - Double E-Bay - Starport - Double Gas After Starport Start Been doing something a lot like, or almost exactly, this. After this point I shortly establish my third but I'm left with 3 Rax 1 Fac 1 Port. I know I need more production but how many barracks should I have on 3 base or for ideal production once my 3 bases are fully established and I'm moving to take a 4th? I am not sure what a good number is. | ||
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c0olL
129 Posts
On April 02 2013 12:42 TheDwf wrote: The OP has been updated. Some things are not yet finished, so don't be surprised if you see "WIP" (Work in progress) in some of the answers. what is the OP? | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
the first post of the topic. | ||
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Vari
United States532 Posts
On April 02 2013 07:05 Fencar wrote: What are you guys doing concerning HotS openers? I've been going CC first in my TvP's and TvT's and 1 barracks FE in TvZ. I then follow up with 3 barracks, +1, and starport in TvT and TvP, and in TvZ I've been using the build from series 2 set 2 of this GSL VOD set, Innovation vs DRG, with a few tweaks to try and make it work against Zerg's openers in HotS such as getting two widow mines and four hellions instead of six hellions. My problem is that nothing feels as solid anymore, compared to the 1 barracks FE from WoL which was extremely good in every match up. I'm of the strong opinion that on most maps you should gas open in tvt and tvp. tvt I get a gas, scout my ass off and stay safe. Not sure what other advice to give. if they 1 rax expo I do reactor hellion expand and try to put enough pressure on with hellions (and a medivac after expand) to even us out, usually go into tanks next rather than heavy marines because he's gonna have more marines. anything else from them just play reactively. tvp the 15 gas into marine/mine drop that seems to be standard among pros has given me only great results. losses tend to be from miscontrol on my part... you should almost always be able to do enough damage with the mines to equalize any situation, and if they get aggressive you have lots of marines, mines, and a medivac. it's such a strong and versatile build... I could see doing a 1 rax expo on say whirlwind but personally considering for everyone in this thread our only games really are ladder games, I'll take the safety and risk being slightly behind a nexus first. it's way more likely you face an early scout + aggression than extreme greed with a good enough player that you can't touch him with your marines and mines. you follow this up (the drop, at which point you already have an expo) with 2 extra rax, tech lab on the fac and port, add your gases and start your bio upgrades. mix in mines for safety, drop lots, and scout. tvz is the one match where I play as greedy as I did in WoL... once I saw Flash willing to do the cc first into reactor hellions and right into 3rd cc I decided I wasn't making any changed. then from there just go into upgrades and mass marines. As always, you have to scout to see if you have to add in tanks, but in general this is the one match that I believe is safe for greedy play in general. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
in the TvP section for recommended buildorders Some kind of Reaper expand into 1-1-1 (or at least Factory) with a bio transition. Polt vs Creator, Akilon Wastes, IPL FC 48; Polt vs HerO, Entombed Valley, MLG Showdowns. vod: the polt vs hero game I see there, he goes reaper into quick stim+bio, not 1/1/1 | ||
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Threx
Germany4 Posts
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Marathi
298 Posts
 Are you planning to include allin builds per matchup as per the WoL thread? Also, when I go CC first in TvZ in my 2base marauder/hellion allin I am struggling with pressure from zergs who go for a pool before their hatch. Am I better building my CC in base, or going 1rax FE with the same follow up? ))))) | ||
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