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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On March 30 2013 12:44 lamiller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 11:10 xluik wrote:
Hi... I am a mid diamond random player on NA and have been losing a significant portion of my games to doom drops with all matchup. Since it happens most of the times on my TvT, can anyone suggest ways to improve myself in dealing with this. I think it is very important to put up sensor towers because it gives you a little bit of a vision and prep before the drop hits. Also, what you could do is put a widow main or two in the likely point of entry of the medivacs because the main goal of a doom drop is to destroy your opponents production, so putting up a couple of widow mines and having a 2 layer turret system would be beneficial. So what I mean by 2 layer turret system is where you have one on the edge of your main and then you have a 2nd one like 4 or 5 yards away from it but moving towards the middle of the base. This provides a good overlapping of turret and increases damage duration on the incoming medivacs. Does this answer your question?
kind of... I have been like using layers of turrets in mech vs T turtling on 3 base going tanks, hellions/hellbats and vikings and they get in from time to time. Sometimes, I go extreme and leave vikings in dead spaces like akikon wastes and they still get in with a two medivac drop.
In bio vs bio, they load up like 5 medivacs when I am sitting in the middle of the map or even pushing out and just auto lose even when I am ahead. The thing is when they do it, especially the good ones, they are well set up for the base trade scenerio with tanks and vikings in their main churning out units when my production gets camped.
Maybe specific questions would be like, how to feel comfortable from a doom drop as you are pushing out? Do you leave mines or units behind? What would be the best response if a doom drop gets off in your base?
Another question: when would you get your sensor towers and your turret rings? As you getting your 3rd?
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Can you tell me a good build that focuses on poking and constant pressure in tvt and tvp? I've always been at my best while forcing the opponent to drop macro during fights, but most of the builds I'm finding are widow mine drops into timing attacks, which are pretty much expected. Short of reapers I'm having a lot of trouble prodding, especially with nexus cannon. Much appreciated.
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On March 28 2013 12:18 iGrepair wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 11:09 Hyp3 wrote:
Whats a standard Terran opening in hots now? Can someone give me a good opener to work with because im lost
10 depot 12 barracks 15 refinery after 2 marines reactor on barracks CC factory (widow mines) starport (start a medivac) when medivac is finished--> add two refineries --> add 2 barracks--> add E-Bay (double tech lab on barracks to start upgrades ASAP, even in TvT) then you keep producing til you can afford another CC after that CC two more barracks and e bay armory from there its all on you btw this was done by innovation at MLG im sure you could find it somewhere this is very standard on the korean server you can be aggresive or defensive with the first medivac that pops out this build can be used for all match ups effectivly once you get used to it
Does this actually apply when it comes to the BO? I never really played terran and after playing protoss throughout WoL I want to mix it up a bit. So I need 3 builds that are pretty standard for the match ups to grind out the macro part of the new race until I'm comfortable enough to mix it up with some fancy builds.
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On March 30 2013 11:11 Tactical wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 09:29 ognennyy wrote:I find mid-game TvZ on Bel'shir Vestige very difficult at the moment. This is due in large part to the map vision / awareness that Bel'shir affords a Zerg, and in smaller part to the incredibly varied terrain I must traverse in order to push. This deadly combo nearly always leads to me having my push crushed while I'm unsieged. My issue is when I decide to move out with, say, a conventional 2/2/1 upgrades timing after taking my third. Reading the question entitled "How do you learn to micro large scale engagements well?/How do you set up the attack, how do you micro DURING the attack, then how do you practice it until you are good?" under the TvZ mid-game section, in the original Terran Help Me OP at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251694, I find an excellent and detailed explanation of how to move out for a push. Unfortunately I'm personally finding those tactics looking "better on paper" when it comes to Bel'shir. On Bel'shir Vestige the Zerg sees your army at all times. The OP overlord high-ground hiding spots are particularly numerable on Bel'shir, and of course it's also impossible to deny the Zerg the towers since they're both directly in the middle on Bel'shir. Regarding the pre-splitting, Bel'shir has so much wildly varying terrain and narrow corridors that pre-splitting becomes overwhelmingly difficult for me. The perimeter of the map is lined with dead air space (aka overlord hangouts). I can't set up a drop to distract the Zerg while I unsiege and move out. These factors usually result in my army getting blown up before I can even hit the siege key. I've practiced moving out several times by taking command of replays of my Bel'shir games. It's helped some; forced me to think more about exactly where I'm moving my army and why, and made me familiar with the travel paths it will take. Unfortunately as I practice all I can see is all the places I have to pass where the Zerg will have full vision of my army, and know when to charge me. Conclusions I've been able to draw so far: 1) The only practical way to push on Bel'shir is to leap frog, starting with the moment I come into range of the towers (historically Zerg seem most comfortable charging only once I approach the edge of their creep). This "practical" push is entirely impractical, since in the time a slow push would take to get across Bel'shir the Zerg could tech from hatchery to Hive. Following this line of thought, is bio / tank just a horrible strat for Bel'shir? 2) I should devise a build incorporating very early overlord and creep removal, specifically designed for Bel'shir. Perhaps something like a 1/1/1 with a quick viking into widow mines, since I will likely see mutas shortly after my viking starts bringing down overlords. I'd love to hear any thoughts. I'm very lost in TvZ on Bel'shir. Is no one else having similar issues? There's a few ways you can even the fight. Use widow mines for map control/vision like a zerg uses creep tumors. Use the high ground terrain when you're pushing. Use early hellions or reapers for map control to keep creep pushed back, and every time you push, make sure to scan and clear out the tumors along your attack paths to shove it back in his face. Bio/Tank has pretty much died off in HoTS though, as widow mines are cheaper, can be reactor/produced, and the zerg has to be much more aware when he attacks into you. It lets you be much more aggressive and mobile with the drilling claws upgrade than bio/tank as well. And tanks can be pulled out of position via vipers. But if you're set on bio/tank, just make a second factory and start producing widow mines to give you a little map vision as well. Worst case scenario, you can always bunker/turret/leap frog slow push 2010 jinro style across the map.
Nice. And using widow mines to take some map control fits well w/my build. I already produce a few so I can laugh when he rolls in w/mutas around 11min.
When playing that map TvZ, do you pro terrans ever incorporate an early port for a viking to overlord hunt? Seems like it'd be wonderful on that map for two big reasons.
1) Their overlords are absolutely everywhere.
2) If they hadn't already decided on their tech path, the viking taking down overlords usually encourages early mutas. That's great for me if I'm reactor producing widow mines. If I'm not placing emphasis on tanks, I can get an early thor out as well. Always fun watching 1,000 zerg gas disappear in one thor volley + a few widow mine blasts.
Regarding the slow push.. Jeez it just seems like there are so many counter attack paths on that map, which is a big reason I had originally scrapped the idea of a slow push (aside from the length of the push path to the Z 3rd or 4th). Perhaps you're correct in steering clear of bio / tank, at least on that map.
This sucks. Over the last week I've practiced Thorzain's hellion / triple OC opener like 50 times and just got very comfortable with it hehe. Guess I'll have to modify and make room for gas for an early port.
Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.
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hello actually diamond .
I have some trouble in t v p , can someone tell me a safe macro build against 3 gate , stargate pressure one one base,oracle deny my mine ,so should i tank siege , with marine and switch mmm ?
What is the new safe build like one rax expo on wol? in t v t ?
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On March 30 2013 17:42 CryMeaRiveR.749 wrote:
hello actually diamond .
I have some trouble in t v p , can someone tell me a safe macro build against 3 gate , stargate pressure one one base,oracle deny my mine ,so should i tank siege , with marine and switch mmm ?
What is the new safe build like one rax expo on wol? in t v t ?
The new safe build is 15 gas reactor marines into reactor rax->fact->starport.
This allows you to threaten harassment as well as be flexible versus any type of aggression.
Versus oracles your options are widow mines in your mineral line/viking/missile turrets.
Making just a viking is probably not good enough because it will kill the oracle too slowly and you'll lose many scvs, also it has no offensive potential.
Personally I like to use the mines/viking/rines to defend until I have a medivac and engibay, then I plant a missile turret and go for the mine drop.
If your opponent isn't being aggressive just go straight for medivac and a drop with 4 rines/2 mines and transition into standard bio (with 2nd gas and +2 rax, building addons with the factory and starport.)
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Question - TvP 1 rax FE vs double expand - any good methods to punish early? The new mothership cannon makes any all in seem like a joke right now...fast drops?
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I did a 11/11 vs protoss, it hits bfore the planetary nexus.
Also with the new HotS units TvP Mech is acctually viable so I'd suggest watching HTOMaries Tutorials if you're intressed.
I need a new opener for TvZ/TvT
in TvZ I currently open 13 gas into 4 hellions and expands out of it.
TvT I just do 1 raxx expo/CC first and ends up losing to early game pressure X_X
cheers.
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On March 30 2013 19:08 padfoota wrote:
Question - TvP 1 rax FE vs double expand - any good methods to punish early? The new mothership cannon makes any all in seem like a joke right now...fast drops?
I would suggest hitting two places at once, they can't nexus cannon two locations at the same time. Fast drop with hellbats or mines, or even just marines is most likely the most effective, however the 1 rax FE does take quite a lot of the "fast" out of those drops. I must say that I don't like 1 rax FE vs Protoss anymore, as mine drops and hellbat openings are far too fun (and effective).
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On March 30 2013 05:44 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 04:10 Garmer wrote:
safest build to fast expand with mech play against all race?
Well I siege expand in all three matchups and although you don't expand as quickly as 1 rax expand, I'm yet to find an all in to kill me minus baneling all ins if my tank is slightly late.
this is good, but do you pump tanks non stop until 3-4 of them? because with one gas(with double gas, 2cc come to late) you can't do that
On March 30 2013 06:21 ThePianoDentist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 04:10 Garmer wrote:
safest build to fast expand with mech play against all race?
reactor hellion, can make some widow mines instead of hellions if your hellions spot roaches. There are some instances where its useful to start making siege tanks though (tvp blink all-in), tvt if hes not expanding and going for a fast push. in tvt or tvp if youve scouted that they havent expanded it can often be useful to get a starport before expanding that way you can get a viking out if stargate play or theyre trying to drop you or a raven if you need detection. often youll use the starport against zerg to get banshees for map control. its essentially a defensive 1-1-1, it may not be the most economical style but i find it very safe and you can use your defensive units, hellions, mines etc to harrass with medivacs once you know you're safe. versus zerg you can do a 1 rax expand into this 1-1-1 type build and its still safe but not against p and t unless you're very confident at your ability to hold various all-ins. you go 12 rax 13 gas make 2 marines factory at 100 gas reactor on rax at 50 gas swap them starport at 150 gas there are so many different units you can build doing this that there is not a set time you get your 2nd cc or 2nd gas, basically get your 2nd cc when you feel safe. i usually dont get 2nd gas until i make my 2nd cc but you can get it earlier if you to get cloaked banshees or an early raven or things like that. then soon after you get a 2nd factory which you put a techlab on some you can make tanks against zerg you can be a bit more economic and skip 2nd supply depot to make a cc, then get double gas, then 2nd supply depot. if you want to mech in all matchups htomarios youtube channel could be very helpful (gm mech player) http://www.youtube.com/feed/UC2zqKOyQkZgVj-YJqsBnjQQedit: as a poster above me said siege expands are very safe and can work well. the major downside to them i find is there is no way to punish a very greedy player and you give up all map control, but if you just want to be safe its a great opener.
thank you, for this
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Hey Guys,im a Top 8 Platinum Player on EU and looking forward to Diamond.I Play Bio in TvP and TvZ and Mech in TvT.Since im struggling hard wih Bio vs Zerg,wouldnt it be easier to play mech in all matchups?with the new Mine and the hellbat,mech has some good options.Maybe i am also to slow for Bio,since my Average Apm is about 120.Would be nice to hear your opinions about it.
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On March 30 2013 19:08 padfoota wrote:
Question - TvP 1 rax FE vs double expand - any good methods to punish early? The new mothership cannon makes any all in seem like a joke right now...fast drops?
If you play a standard 1 rax FE from WoL, ( I do and it still works good). You should be able to punish him greatly for going double exps on maps where the expansions aren't to close to eachother, like on Daybreak then drops can really hurt them. The standard medivac push should be able to deal sufficient to put you ahead. ( I usually just kill them).
Don't know of many earlier attacks before medivacs, but if you go 1 rax FE into 4 rax a marine push-out it should punish a really fast 3rd!
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On March 30 2013 21:30 Zorgaz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 19:08 padfoota wrote:
Question - TvP 1 rax FE vs double expand - any good methods to punish early? The new mothership cannon makes any all in seem like a joke right now...fast drops? If you play a standard 1 rax FE from WoL, ( I do and it still works good). You should be able to punish him greatly for going double exps on maps where the expansions aren't to close to eachother, like on Daybreak then drops can really hurt them. The standard medivac push should be able to deal sufficient to put you ahead. ( I usually just kill them). Don't know of many earlier attacks before medivacs, but if you go 1 rax FE into 4 rax a marine push-out it should punish a really fast 3rd!
Why don't you just do the reactor expand into marine mine drop? It is safe against oracles, it punishes greedy play and it doesn't put you too far behind economically than if you went for a 1 rax FE. Also, a 4 rax marine push wouldn't work at all, because of photon overcharge.
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On March 30 2013 17:42 CryMeaRiveR.749 wrote:
hello actually diamond .
I have some trouble in t v p , can someone tell me a safe macro build against 3 gate , stargate pressure one one base,oracle deny my mine ,so should i tank siege , with marine and switch mmm ?
What is the new safe build like one rax expo on wol? in t v t ?
If you are doing bio i would stick to the good old 1 rax fe, i think you can do it in hots without changing anything at all.
Obviously it gets hard to hold stuff if you are playing blind against some kind of allin, since you don't know if you need marines in the main for oracles or marines at the front for some kind of gateway+whatever build.
Just go 4 rax before gas if he 1 base allins, and maybe get an ebay for turrets vs air and dts.
Also you want to cut stuff like +1 attack and combat shield to get early starport, since a protoss that allins will have a really hard time dealing with mmm with stim counter attacks, and in the case he does some sort of wierd collusi allin you can get vikings or basetrade with drops.
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On March 30 2013 21:30 Zorgaz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 19:08 padfoota wrote:
Question - TvP 1 rax FE vs double expand - any good methods to punish early? The new mothership cannon makes any all in seem like a joke right now...fast drops? If you play a standard 1 rax FE from WoL, ( I do and it still works good). You should be able to punish him greatly for going double exps on maps where the expansions aren't to close to eachother, like on Daybreak then drops can really hurt them. The standard medivac push should be able to deal sufficient to put you ahead. ( I usually just kill them). Don't know of many earlier attacks before medivacs, but if you go 1 rax FE into 4 rax a marine push-out it should punish a really fast 3rd!
I did that and got my ass fucked on the cannon - I probably shouldve just moved away and attacked somewhere else.
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On March 30 2013 20:55 SomeAlpha wrote:
Hey Guys,im a Top 8 Platinum Player on EU and looking forward to Diamond.I Play Bio in TvP and TvZ and Mech in TvT.Since im struggling hard wih Bio vs Zerg,wouldnt it be easier to play mech in all matchups?with the new Mine and the hellbat,mech has some good options.Maybe i am also to slow for Bio,since my Average Apm is about 120.Would be nice to hear your opinions about it.
"apm" isen't a factor, just practice and you will get better mechanics for unit control.
Mech isen't that good overall in tvz since vipers are really good vs tanks, and some sort of swarmhost play can be somewhat hard to deal with.
In tvp mech is kinda wierd territory to move into, if you don't have basic mechanics and still struggle with standard stuff, i would do bio in tvp until i got a grip on how to do that before exploring some kinda wierd style.
In tvt mech is pretty viable i think.
I played alot of mech in all matchups when i was plat/dia something, but i first started to improve seriously when i just copied 3 top korean players's bio builds, and just did them over and over and over.
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On March 30 2013 20:55 SomeAlpha wrote:
Hey Guys,im a Top 8 Platinum Player on EU and looking forward to Diamond.I Play Bio in TvP and TvZ and Mech in TvT.Since im struggling hard wih Bio vs Zerg,wouldnt it be easier to play mech in all matchups?with the new Mine and the hellbat,mech has some good options.Maybe i am also to slow for Bio,since my Average Apm is about 120.Would be nice to hear your opinions about it.
Its just a matter of time. Try to force yourself to play as fast as possible. If you want to know anything else you can add me.  Spoink.928
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Ok then,another Problem is,that since the start of hots i dont have any Bio builds.I just improvise,which is pretty bad.Do you guys have good biulds for TvP and TvZ?
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can an observer detect farther than a widow mine can shoot? i checked liquipedia and it says the detection range is 11 (!) but i don't think it's that long
someone correct me if i'm wrong
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On March 30 2013 21:34 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 21:30 Zorgaz wrote:On March 30 2013 19:08 padfoota wrote:
Question - TvP 1 rax FE vs double expand - any good methods to punish early? The new mothership cannon makes any all in seem like a joke right now...fast drops? If you play a standard 1 rax FE from WoL, ( I do and it still works good). You should be able to punish him greatly for going double exps on maps where the expansions aren't to close to eachother, like on Daybreak then drops can really hurt them. The standard medivac push should be able to deal sufficient to put you ahead. ( I usually just kill them). Don't know of many earlier attacks before medivacs, but if you go 1 rax FE into 4 rax a marine push-out it should punish a really fast 3rd! Why don't you just do the reactor expand into marine mine drop? It is safe against oracles, it punishes greedy play and it doesn't put you too far behind economically than if you went for a 1 rax FE. Also, a 4 rax marine push wouldn't work at all, because of photon overcharge.
Honestly, since i still win most of my games vs P with my old build. No reason to change something that works...
On March 30 2013 22:37 netherDrake wrote:
can an observer detect farther than a widow mine can shoot? i checked liquipedia and it says the detection range is 11 (!) but i don't think it's that long
someone correct me if i'm wrong
Yes it can!
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EPT
