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[D]8/8 proxy reaper rax tvt (and build intro) - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Baum
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1010 Posts
February 20 2013 13:42 GMT
#41
Well, i really thought the new reaper is going to be even more useless than in WOL but these proxy reaper builds are really tough to deal with. I would like it if Blizzard stopped trying to make the reaper some kind of harass unit rather than just a resilient scouting unit. This would make it possible to give it a faster build time and make it more feasible to get a reaper while fast expanding.
I want to be with those who share secret things or else alone.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
February 20 2013 14:04 GMT
#42
On February 20 2013 22:42 Baum wrote:
Well, i really thought the new reaper is going to be even more useless than in WOL but these proxy reaper builds are really tough to deal with. I would like it if Blizzard stopped trying to make the reaper some kind of harass unit rather than just a resilient scouting unit. This would make it possible to give it a faster build time and make it more feasible to get a reaper while fast expanding.

They already are a resilient scouting unit in HotS. Health buff + speed buff + regen = you shouldn't really lose your reaper if you use it as a scout.
Elvin
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
149 Posts
February 20 2013 14:20 GMT
#43
People are jumping into conclusions when current meta isn't still figured out.
That's right just nerf the reapers to the fucking ground again so Blizzard can make their 3rd shot with reapers in Legacy of the Void.
Baum
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1010 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 14:24:55
February 20 2013 14:24 GMT
#44
@ZenithM That wasn't my point. I think in a straight up game the reaper is a too big investment in terms of building time and requiring you to build a refinery and mine 50 gas. If it was merely a scout rather than also a harassing unit the build time and cost could be reduced and terran would have a way of reliably scouting which Protoss all in is incoming. Maybe this is a bad idea but I would like it better than where we're at right now.
I want to be with those who share secret things or else alone.
ant-1
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada149 Posts
February 20 2013 14:36 GMT
#45
Would this build work in TvP? 3:30 is a hell of an early timing. If proxy is not discovered and P skips Zealot, what can he do?
The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over the Hills
triforks
Profile Joined November 2010
United States370 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 14:48:43
February 20 2013 14:47 GMT
#46
protoss almost always gateway scouts u so then hes gonna turbo a stalker once he sees u got 3 scvs mining....

but u might still be able to kill the stalkers with reapers one at a time if you have good control.

horsepire
Profile Joined April 2011
147 Posts
February 20 2013 14:54 GMT
#47
On February 20 2013 10:14 JustTray wrote:
Overall I like the new reaper strategies that will develop. I think it makes it more a rock,paper, scissors matchup in TvT compared to WoL where it was stale and one dimensional.


I love rock paper scissors! So many possibilities!

...
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 15:23:42
February 20 2013 15:01 GMT
#48
On February 20 2013 23:54 horsepire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2013 10:14 JustTray wrote:
Overall I like the new reaper strategies that will develop. I think it makes it more a rock,paper, scissors matchup in TvT compared to WoL where it was stale and one dimensional.


I love rock paper scissors! So many possibilities!

...

I think it's nice in a mirror matchup when there is plenty of openings, all somewhat good, and every opening has strengths and weaknesses and gets slightly countered by another build.
The early PvP / pre-queen patch ZvZ kind of rock paper scissors is bad though.


On February 20 2013 23:24 Baum wrote:
@ZenithM That wasn't my point. I think in a straight up game the reaper is a too big investment in terms of building time and requiring you to build a refinery and mine 50 gas. If it was merely a scout rather than also a harassing unit the build time and cost could be reduced and terran would have a way of reliably scouting which Protoss all in is incoming. Maybe this is a bad idea but I would like it better than where we're at right now.

I think you're right that if you just want a passive macro build with some scouting option, teching to reaper is too big of an investment. When I open with 1 reaper in WoL, I like to use that small early flow of gas to set up some specific timing that I couldn't do with a normal 1 rax CC. For example, I make my 1 reaper, I leave only 1 or 2 guys in gas, make a CC, 4 rax total, research combat shield, and hit a mass marines with cs timing. I think there might be similar small non all in or defensive timings with a reaper opening in HotS. For example, it's reasonably fast to tech to factory behind a reaper, depending on what you scout.
mothergoose729
Profile Joined December 2010
United States666 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 17:00:58
February 20 2013 16:59 GMT
#49
On February 20 2013 23:36 ant-1 wrote:
Would this build work in TvP? 3:30 is a hell of an early timing. If proxy is not discovered and P skips Zealot, what can he do?


Chrono boost out the stalker. If they go nexus first they would lose. When i tried it against toss they always built the zealot, and then they got out a couple stalkers and it was very difficult to take them out. I have seen QXC do more economic reaper openings for harrass and edge out a lead with it, but I don't this rush is effective in the TvP matchup.
ThisIsJimmy
Profile Joined July 2004
United States546 Posts
February 20 2013 23:04 GMT
#50
On February 20 2013 17:14 PulseKane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2013 17:11 ThisIsJimmy wrote:
Yeah against zerg just go 1 proxy rax and build bunkers with the scv that built the proxy rax. The way to beat this as zerg is to make 2-3 sunkens at the natural. Reapers don't do enough damage to kill them off fast enough. It also takes a very long time to kill the hatchery so you can stall for a long time while you build up queens/lings and then eventually bust the bunkers with queens/lings/sunkens.

This build was much stronger when Terran still needed a tech lab, and the reapers did more damage.


you're doing it wrong. you dont need to build bunkers, they only serve as a safe-place for the reapers while they heal.

you dont kill buildings with the reapers, you go straight after drones and queens once you have 3-4 reapers. zerg has to get speed out early because spines are too easily dodged.


Hmm maybe you are right... I will look into this next time I play. Queens may be too hard to kill/get around though. + it takes 6 shots to kill a drone T_T
Twitter @_ThisIsJimmy_
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
February 21 2013 14:40 GMT
#51
I tryed it, 100% win rate with it atm. I just lost once because I forgot that reaper don't need tech lab anymore, I built a lab tech on each rax --'

I really wonder if there is viable way to counter it. My guess is :
Everybody is gonna do proxy reapers, then every body is gonna blind counter it with X economicaly shitty build. TvT is gonna develop around an economicaly shitty defensive build order !
rly ?
mothergoose729
Profile Joined December 2010
United States666 Posts
February 21 2013 23:04 GMT
#52
I have lost to 12 rax, 13 gas builds that get a tech lab immediately on the barrakcs, and go mauraders with concussive shells. If the defending terran can get out two mauraders with high hipoints the rush is over.
Stingart
Profile Joined July 2011
122 Posts
February 22 2013 02:01 GMT
#53
On February 21 2013 23:40 algue wrote:
I tryed it, 100% win rate with it atm. I just lost once because I forgot that reaper don't need tech lab anymore, I built a lab tech on each rax --'


:/
TheSwagger
Profile Joined June 2012
United States92 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 06:07:33
February 22 2013 06:04 GMT
#54
I always scout off of the 9 depot so I am usually aware of cheese. I know it can sound silly to think this way; whatever is indentified as "standard," in my opinion, is completely worthless because the only thing that matters is what is happening in the match you're playing in that exact moment. I think we all can agree that if you do meta-game builds and lose you cant be a Sour Sally about it. You threw the dice and crapped out.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
Grubbegrabbn
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden174 Posts
February 22 2013 07:16 GMT
#55
I saw TLO defend something like this (1st reaper arrived just as pool finished) yesterday with cute micro. Lost a grand total of 1 drone while queens were building. A combo of running away and morphing damaged drones to various buildings, all timely cancelled. Definitely no problem to defend for a pro. For the rest of us... dunno
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
February 22 2013 07:36 GMT
#56
On February 22 2013 16:16 Grubbegrabbn wrote:
I saw TLO defend something like this (1st reaper arrived just as pool finished) yesterday with cute micro. Lost a grand total of 1 drone while queens were building. A combo of running away and morphing damaged drones to various buildings, all timely cancelled. Definitely no problem to defend for a pro. For the rest of us... dunno

That sounds like a slightly late proxy reaper compared to what I have seen on Idra and other good Zergs streams.
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
A Wild Sosd
Profile Joined September 2012
Australia421 Posts
February 22 2013 11:16 GMT
#57
This is so so so fun to play.
Bomber | TaeJa | Life | Scarlett I Twitter: @SosdSC2
Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
February 22 2013 11:31 GMT
#58
I suppose the threadmaker is soo proud of his strategy...Playing TvT that cheesy is so dumb..Yesterday I lost vs this thing and saw even Avilo losing.He said,you need to scout the proxy and make bunkers,but when are you going to scout if he is going for 8/8/8???

Blizzard should be proud of this unit.Reaper still good only in TvT.Rest of the MU is a dead weight and totally useless.

mothergoose,enjoy your skill practicing this cheese,instead of learning the game and trying to be better macro player....
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
February 22 2013 11:36 GMT
#59
Reaper proxy is an extremely strong opening if done correctly. And with good macro behind it done correctly.
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
February 22 2013 11:37 GMT
#60
On February 22 2013 20:31 Dvriel wrote:
I suppose the threadmaker is soo proud of his strategy...Playing TvT that cheesy is so dumb..Yesterday I lost vs this thing and saw even Avilo losing.He said,you need to scout the proxy and make bunkers,but when are you going to scout if he is going for 8/8/8???

Blizzard should be proud of this unit.Reaper still good only in TvT.Rest of the MU is a dead weight and totally useless.

mothergoose,enjoy your skill practicing this cheese,instead of learning the game and trying to be better macro player....


Cheese is a form of play, no different than a chess player who specialises in winning under 15 moves.
Cauterize the area
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