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On February 22 2013 20:37 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 20:31 Dvriel wrote:
I suppose the threadmaker is soo proud of his strategy...Playing TvT that cheesy is so dumb..Yesterday I lost vs this thing and saw even Avilo losing.He said,you need to scout the proxy and make bunkers,but when are you going to scout if he is going for 8/8/8???
Blizzard should be proud of this unit.Reaper still good only in TvT.Rest of the MU is a dead weight and totally useless.
mothergoose,enjoy your skill practicing this cheese,instead of learning the game and trying to be better macro player.... Cheese is a form of play, no different than a chess player who specialises in winning under 15 moves.
Sure,paying to a Referee is also part of the game in football and I suppose is OK. Anyways you wont tell me,cheese players are the proud of the community and we must heil them for their abilities... If you are MVP and in finals of GSL use some cheese BO to break the BO7 is ok,but using this in every single game in any kind of MU is....stupid
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On February 22 2013 20:45 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 20:37 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On February 22 2013 20:31 Dvriel wrote:
I suppose the threadmaker is soo proud of his strategy...Playing TvT that cheesy is so dumb..Yesterday I lost vs this thing and saw even Avilo losing.He said,you need to scout the proxy and make bunkers,but when are you going to scout if he is going for 8/8/8???
Blizzard should be proud of this unit.Reaper still good only in TvT.Rest of the MU is a dead weight and totally useless.
mothergoose,enjoy your skill practicing this cheese,instead of learning the game and trying to be better macro player.... Cheese is a form of play, no different than a chess player who specialises in winning under 15 moves. Sure,paying to a Referee is also part of the game in football and I suppose is OK. Anyways you wont tell me,cheese players are the proud of the community and we must heil them for their abilities... If you are MVP and in finals of GSL use some cheese BO to break the BO7 is ok,but using this in every single game in any kind of MU is....stupid
the only thing stupid is your comparison here.
Your comparing cheating to a strategy you dont like, the equivalent of paying a referee would be maphacking, not cheesing, seriously wtf kinda comparison is that.
I bet you insult everyone on ladder that cheeses you...
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I tried this build on ladder a few times... didn't even proxy it, used the raxxws to block the ramp... still works wonders
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On February 22 2013 23:33 freewareplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 20:45 Dvriel wrote:On February 22 2013 20:37 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On February 22 2013 20:31 Dvriel wrote:
I suppose the threadmaker is soo proud of his strategy...Playing TvT that cheesy is so dumb..Yesterday I lost vs this thing and saw even Avilo losing.He said,you need to scout the proxy and make bunkers,but when are you going to scout if he is going for 8/8/8???
Blizzard should be proud of this unit.Reaper still good only in TvT.Rest of the MU is a dead weight and totally useless.
mothergoose,enjoy your skill practicing this cheese,instead of learning the game and trying to be better macro player.... Cheese is a form of play, no different than a chess player who specialises in winning under 15 moves. Sure,paying to a Referee is also part of the game in football and I suppose is OK. Anyways you wont tell me,cheese players are the proud of the community and we must heil them for their abilities... If you are MVP and in finals of GSL use some cheese BO to break the BO7 is ok,but using this in every single game in any kind of MU is....stupid the only thing stupid is your comparison here. Your comparing cheating to a strategy you dont like, the equivalent of paying a referee would be maphacking, not cheesing, seriously wtf kinda comparison is that. I bet you insult everyone on ladder that cheeses you...
you can bet whatever you want.BM is not my way.I never insult cheese people.Just dont take them seriously.Its a stupid way to win a game if you are not in tournament.You dont learn anything.I suppose its just another way to lie yourself and believe you are "that good" hehe
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On February 24 2013 08:52 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 23:33 freewareplayer wrote:On February 22 2013 20:45 Dvriel wrote:On February 22 2013 20:37 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On February 22 2013 20:31 Dvriel wrote:
I suppose the threadmaker is soo proud of his strategy...Playing TvT that cheesy is so dumb..Yesterday I lost vs this thing and saw even Avilo losing.He said,you need to scout the proxy and make bunkers,but when are you going to scout if he is going for 8/8/8???
Blizzard should be proud of this unit.Reaper still good only in TvT.Rest of the MU is a dead weight and totally useless.
mothergoose,enjoy your skill practicing this cheese,instead of learning the game and trying to be better macro player.... Cheese is a form of play, no different than a chess player who specialises in winning under 15 moves. Sure,paying to a Referee is also part of the game in football and I suppose is OK. Anyways you wont tell me,cheese players are the proud of the community and we must heil them for their abilities... If you are MVP and in finals of GSL use some cheese BO to break the BO7 is ok,but using this in every single game in any kind of MU is....stupid the only thing stupid is your comparison here. Your comparing cheating to a strategy you dont like, the equivalent of paying a referee would be maphacking, not cheesing, seriously wtf kinda comparison is that. I bet you insult everyone on ladder that cheeses you... you can bet whatever you want.BM is not my way.I never insult cheese people.Just dont take them seriously.Its a stupid way to win a game if you are not in tournament.You dont learn anything.I suppose its just another way to lie yourself and believe you are "that good" hehe
I dont think that you dont learn anything if you are cheesing. You learn to Micro with small armys which can be really important in a mid game aswell. There is a reason why you defende one cheese probably well and another player does the same cheese but then you lose. Its execusen and i think its also important to practice something like that. I also cheese sometimes because i think my execusen of all ins isnt that good. And i wanna be an allround good player means Macro & Micro. Sure there are people out there cheesing all the time and i also think this is not a good way of playing the game. But deal with cheeses. If you get chessed and lose dont flame him or anything. He didnt won the game, YOU lost it because you werent able to defende it. Think about what you could do better next time. You need to learn to defend cheeses. Look at KR league they are cheesing so often but say GG, because they know they did something wrong.
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Just wondering - anyway to hold this TVT with scout after depot? even if I bunker my minerals its pretty tough as the reapers can just dodge it.
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On February 22 2013 20:45 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 20:37 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On February 22 2013 20:31 Dvriel wrote:
I suppose the threadmaker is soo proud of his strategy...Playing TvT that cheesy is so dumb..Yesterday I lost vs this thing and saw even Avilo losing.He said,you need to scout the proxy and make bunkers,but when are you going to scout if he is going for 8/8/8???
Blizzard should be proud of this unit.Reaper still good only in TvT.Rest of the MU is a dead weight and totally useless.
mothergoose,enjoy your skill practicing this cheese,instead of learning the game and trying to be better macro player.... Cheese is a form of play, no different than a chess player who specialises in winning under 15 moves. Sure,paying to a Referee is also part of the game in football and I suppose is OK. Anyways you wont tell me,cheese players are the proud of the community and we must heil them for their abilities... If you are MVP and in finals of GSL use some cheese BO to break the BO7 is ok,but using this in every single game in any kind of MU is....stupid
I know they might sound the same to you... but
cheesing isn't cheating
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Ah, ofc... what kind of cheese guide is that if there's no flaming of the cheese/OP? God, those people who cheese on the ladder to learn new builds, new sets of skills or simply have fun are so awful...
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i feel like everyone is copying this build off me :D its really good against 15hatch 15pool zergs and all kinds off terrans, but you can hold it with proper drone/scv pulls
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How do you defend this 8/8 as terran? I've tried marauder after first marine but they can just escape and heal and then come back with more...
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On March 24 2013 09:19 GuiRao wrote:
How do you defend this 8/8 as terran? I've tried marauder after first marine but they can just escape and heal and then come back with more...
I'm having a hard time with these heavy reaper openings myself when trying to 1 rax FE or 15 gas fe.
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On March 24 2013 09:43 Joedaddy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 09:19 GuiRao wrote:
How do you defend this 8/8 as terran? I've tried marauder after first marine but they can just escape and heal and then come back with more... I'm having a hard time with these heavy reaper openings myself when trying to 1 rax FE or 15 gas fe.
But you are fe'ing, I do 13 ref and still don't know what to do. Make reapers too and make 2 bunkers on mineral line?
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Stopping this is as simple as marauder expanding. Theres other options but cc marauders are the simplest. It can be held with a bunker and marines but this is more micro intensive and you can still end up behind even if you hold the reapers.
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Seriously hate what the reaper change has done to the matchup... Now I 8/8/8/14(2nd rax) every TvT because even if people are expanding 90% of the time you still have to go through the reaper dance and i'd rather be the one that's doing the aggression and has a 50% chance of blindcountering whatever build my opponent has done.
WoL tvt was so much better >.>
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On March 24 2013 12:38 GTPGlitch wrote:
Seriously hate what the reaper change has done to the matchup... Now I 8/8/8/14(2nd rax) every TvT because even if people are expanding 90% of the time you still have to go through the reaper dance and i'd rather be the one that's doing the aggression and has a 50% chance of blindcountering whatever build my opponent has done.
WoL tvt was so much better >.>
Dude you gotta do it 8/8/8/9 (2nd rax) but seriously, marauders shut this down hard.
Also, as long as you can get a bunker started when the first reaper shows you can hold it with just marines marines from one barracks, assuming you put the bunker down someplace good and dont overreact with your scvs. Against one reaper I think its best to just let him shoot and pull 2 scvs to repair whats being shot, rather than pulling a huge chunk of scvs to try and trap him or something.
If you see the first reaper at 320 or so then the proxy is basically at your third so it doesnt hurt to slip an scv out to head to his nat with the intention of proxying something since he will have nothing in his base. This way if you wind up pinned in your base you can back stab his empty main and comfortably hold at home since reapers will not break a bunker being repaired.
If you wind up in a mirror match against another 888, you need to take your scvs and scatter them all over the map when the first reaper hits (if its 11/11 marines just run them to your opponents main), then prevent your opponent from doing the same. Neither of you will have many scvs, so the guy with the faster 2nd rax is going to have the edge.
I like the reaper, and I like this build because I enjoy it more when the game is basically a constant fight from the 3-4 minute mark. At first I thought they would nerf the reaper for sure because this was pretty effective, but now I have reconsidered. Even a total noob can hold if he just builds a marauder, its probably the simplest way to stop an 888.
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Couldn't a tight FE build counter this. Tight meaning. building everybuilding in the main to wall one way off to the minerallines? The reapers do not have any edge over marines in this way, except the heal. Im thinkin this could mean ur so far ahead economiccaly, because u just have to hold 1 entrance to the SCV's.
Edit : I made an example screenshot before 1 reaper hits your base. At this timeframe u have 1 marine out guarding the ramp.
![[image loading]](http://s21.postimg.org/oc39ap5dj/counterreaper_1rax_FE.jpg)
P.s. goldplayer, so dont flame at me for saying something stupid If its viable maybe a master could test it, if u can hold against the reaperstrategy in this way it will help noobs around the world. Plz do help us and be a hero without micro
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On March 24 2013 15:15 govie wrote:Couldn't a tight FE build counter this. Tight meaning. building everybuilding in the main to wall one way off to the minerallines? The reapers do not have any edge over marines in this way, except the heal. Im thinkin this could mean ur so far ahead economiccaly, because u just have to hold 1 entrance to the SCV's. Edit : I made an example screenshot before 1 reaper hits your base. At this timeframe u have 1 marine out guarding the ramp. P.s. goldplayer, so dont flame at me for saying something stupid
Tight building placement helps, your bunker can cover more
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On March 24 2013 15:15 govie wrote:Couldn't a tight FE build counter this. Tight meaning. building everybuilding in the main to wall one way off to the minerallines? The reapers do not have any edge over marines in this way, except the heal. Im thinkin this could mean ur so far ahead economiccaly, because u just have to hold 1 entrance to the SCV's. Edit : I made an example screenshot before 1 reaper hits your base. At this timeframe u have 1 marine out guarding the ramp. P.s. goldplayer, so dont flame at me for saying something stupid
Have fun repairing :/
Seriously tho Im doing 12 rax 12 gas 14 rax proxy reapers and Im still winning vs everything in T....and I get an orbital
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On March 24 2013 15:52 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 15:15 govie wrote:Couldn't a tight FE build counter this. Tight meaning. building everybuilding in the main to wall one way off to the minerallines? The reapers do not have any edge over marines in this way, except the heal. Im thinkin this could mean ur so far ahead economiccaly, because u just have to hold 1 entrance to the SCV's. Edit : I made an example screenshot before 1 reaper hits your base. At this timeframe u have 1 marine out guarding the ramp. P.s. goldplayer, so dont flame at me for saying something stupid Have fun repairing :/ Seriously tho Im doing 12 rax 12 gas 14 rax proxy reapers and Im still winning vs everything in T....and I get an orbital
U dont understand what i mean. If u open like this, standard FE with neath building placement at this timeframe, u dont know if your opponent has gone 88 or similar.
Seeing that the 2cc is allready building, followup production buildings are comming shortly. If the reaper meets your scout, that means u can identify an early proxy 88 or no proxy. The building placement is just to stall, to get a descent answer out on the field against early reaperaggression (the map can alter the response to 88 or an early reaperbuild). The damage from reaper to buildings is minimal, so time enough as i see it.
I think your 12/12/14 will be to late against this wall off. because by time u hit, which is well past 3:30, your opponent will have the infrastructure to beat ur strategy when buildingplacement is similar. By then u are way behind because there is no way u can deal economical damage to catch on up such short notice. Any timing push would kill u outright, because u lack dps..
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Pretty good played right. Slight modification suggested on 2p maps that can make it really nasty:
Send scouting worker immediately
6 - scv
7 - scv
8 - scv
9 - DEPOT with proxy scv, do NOT pull workers to build this, use the proxy scv
9 - barracks (with proxy SCV - rallyclick the SCV to a spot closer to the enemy base so he'll move after finishing this rax, prepared for the second proxy rax)
9 - Refinery (1:40)
9 - SCV
10 - SCV
@ refinery completion, put 3 on gas IMMEDIATELY
2:40 build first reaper
13 Barracks #2 (build this closer to enemy base with proxy scv)
13 Reaper #2
15 Orbital Command
15 Reaper #3
17 Reaper #4
You can technically get out the first and fourth reaper about 4 seconds earlier if you do a build without an orbital command, but this build puts the proxies closer to the enemy base, effectively making the attack times (units inside enemy base) a hair faster while still allowing you an orbital command for really nice followup.
Now you make a decision.
OPTION 1:
Is your attack going well? Are you going to win if you just push a FEW more reapers? Calldown supplies on your proxy depot, build a second refinery (put 2-3 on gas asap) and keep pumping reapers non-stop to 8 total @ 6:00.
If you calldown extra supplies on your proxy depot, you can continue pretty much nonstop reaper production up to 8, with them all arriving within roughly 6:15 (and in the enemy base by 6:20-6:30)
OPTION 2:
Alternatively, calldown a mule and pump a depot at home ASAP. You have lots of paths here. If you continue reaper production you still end up with 7 of them in the enemy base around 6:20-6:30 (one less than the extra supplies build). Start a second refinery. Start pumping scvs. Go factory and widow mines, or tanks. Do a fancy float to highground and start producing widow mines in his base. Hell, you could run another scv out from your base while pulling all scvs back to minerals and go 4-5 reactor rax massive marine force. With mules, your income can support one hell of a followup.
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EPT
