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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On November 30 2013 05:46 t0n!ght wrote: Wow MvP hit the timing perfectly in game 2 against Curious. Maxed at 15 minutes with 2-2 on mech units! Yeah, superb game. Though a certain HOTS Zerg unit was missing from that game; were it to be present, i doubt the game would have been so good. | ||
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Dzerzhinsky
Scotland327 Posts
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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fried_rice
198 Posts
On December 02 2013 03:25 9-BiT wrote: Any basic advice for TvT? There seems to be about 50 things that if I don't do I just autolose to bio, so I'm hoping that after I can hold those that I can start winning. These are some things I just thought up : -Use agressive openings, I play very defensive overall but I favour agressive openings in TvT to pin back the bio player or make him think twice about moving out early on. He can't afford to keep doing random/early marine drops if you are threatening to drop hellions/hellbats or harass with banshees. Find a way to make him uncomfortable with moving his whole bio-ball around the map, always make sure he's left a few units behind to defend your agression. -Early map control and harass will go a long way into transitioning more easily into a defensive mid-game. Good scouting is also important, don't be afraid to burn scans or sacrifice hellions to figure out what the opponent is up to, since, like you said, theres a random billion things you can die to. Usually I'll get a handful of marines with my openings, which I'll use to grab every watch tower avaliable and set them to patrol important routes for army movement. Widow mines are also awesome for map control and vision although I rarely get more than a couple. -You've probably been in a situation where a bio player got a drop in your main despite the turrets (damn medivac boost) and you find yourself in a situation where you have to send a few of your slow ass troops to your main to deal with 4 stimmed marines that are killing your depots and armories, something that can be avoided by a single sieged tank in your main, however: -You have to make sure he's not planning a big frontal assault, that way you can more comfortably siege a few tanks by your CCs, which with the support of turrets will guard you from small drops and buy time for your troops to arrive in case of bigger drops. If they are planning to do a big frontal assault this kind of defense can cost you the game as you might not have enough to defend the front (this is also true for mech vs mech). -Spam turrets everywhere(past early game ofc), early on fly your barracks to possible drop routes. | ||
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DBS
515 Posts
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On December 02 2013 04:22 DBS wrote: What do you guys think about going banshee heavy mech in tvz? Since the patch ive been going hellion banshee 3 cc into 4 fac and 2 starports on 3 base. I go thor hellion banshee with a couple (3-4) of tanks mixed in in case of roaches. It seems really strong in a straight up engagement vs lair tech, and crushes hive (banshees>ultra and it has an easy raven transition). Most of the games i lose are either due to being very far behind in the early game, pushing too early or losing basetrades. However I only ever lose bastrades vs muta players, cause otherwise the banshees are just too effective in that sort of situation. Im only gold so maybe it won't work at higher levels. I was also wondering if a similar composition may work in tvp. Thor/Hellion/Banshee was very strong in WoL, yes, but in HotS you have a very hard time against Swarmhosts with it. You just need the Tanks and Ravens against those. In TvP though I really like the Banshees. It forces P to get some decent anti-air up. Usually they use a lot of Stalkers which are crap against a Tankline. Having Cloakshees early also forces P to get detection out, mainly Observers, which limits the amount of Immortals a bit. Needless to say that Banshees do quite well against Immortals, too.  | ||
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DBS
515 Posts
On December 02 2013 04:46 BurningRanger wrote: Thor/Hellion/Banshee was very strong in WoL, yes, but in HotS you have a very hard time against Swarmhosts with it. You just need the Tanks and Ravens against those. In TvP though I really like the Banshees. It forces P to get some decent anti-air up. Usually they use a lot of Stalkers which are crap against a Tankline. Having Cloakshees early also forces P to get detection out, mainly Observers, which limits the amount of Immortals a bit. Needless to say that Banshees do quite well against Immortals, too. I guess i should have mentioned that I increase the number of tanks and go ravens when i face swarmhosts, but that is actually part of what i think the advantage is to this play style, you already have two starports for a faster raven transition | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On November 30 2013 05:42 saaaa wrote: I have some questions about Mechplay in TvT and interested in your opinions. 1) Do i need fast 3 CC's after Gas First Builds to catch up and play a even game? Or is it possible and viable to build my 3 CC after my additional Factories? I think to delay my 3rd CC is fine, because i can not land and defend it anyways against a bio player. 2) With the new patch and combined mech upgrades. Should i play mech in TvT with double upgrades or still just single? 3) My order of factories, starport, armory and cc is until now this one: Fac --> Starport --> 2nd CC --> 2nd+3rd Fac--> Armory+Reactor Starport --> 4th+5th Fac and if i had like 8 gases i add two starports and facs against a bio player otherwise just starports.. I tried to copy terran pro player but it seems they dont follow a logic with this. Maybe you guys can help. 4) What are your compositions against bio and mech players? I normally play against a bio player in the early stage up to 12 Hellions for fast defending and then switch into Tank+Hellbat+MediVac (after reaching like 6 Vikings)+Raven. Against a mech player i normally play Hellbat+Tank+Viking+4-6 MediVac (for dropping tanks)+Raven. 5) When should i roll out with my mech army? After a max out with 2/2 - 2/0 Uprades? Or should i play defensive and just be more cost effective the whole game? Or should i just defend so long until i win a big engagement and then attack? I often have the problem when i want to roll out to early i get catch off guard because i dont have so many scans/PDD's at this time to make it to key points on the map thx for your help in advance What do you think guys? | ||
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Dzerzhinsky
Scotland327 Posts
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llIH
Norway2142 Posts
On December 02 2013 22:41 Dzerzhinsky wrote: Mvp meched vs CJ_Hero in the IEM quarter final. The game starts at ~21 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDbi5VSI3gk Unfortunately he did not have a good composition vs mass Immortals. I think ghosts or something would make it easier. It was countered hard. | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
The main immortal force was basically untouched and destroyed all the hellbats with a perfect concave But the opening.. waow. TvP mech openings at pro lvl seems super agressive (i guess it was Supernova who did this gas first hellion reactor recently for example?) | ||
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fried_rice
198 Posts
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llIH
Norway2142 Posts
On December 03 2013 02:16 fried_rice wrote: Another painful to watch pro-mech game Then you should have seen the awesome mech games mvp did vs all the zergs in IEM | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
Thanks for posting Dzerzhinsky! | ||
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llIH
Norway2142 Posts
On December 03 2013 03:11 Sapphire.lux wrote: Difficult to see how Mech will ever become viable in TvP with Immortals being the super Factory hard counter that they are. Thanks for posting Dzerzhinsky! Indeed. | ||
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llIH
Norway2142 Posts
On December 03 2013 01:49 Lyyna wrote: Bad engagement by him also : basically half of his tanks weren't in range of the protoss army, and most of them were firing on a few zealots coming from the 3rd :/ The main immortal force was basically untouched and destroyed all the hellbats with a perfect concave But the opening.. waow. TvP mech openings at pro lvl seems super agressive (i guess it was Supernova who did this gas first hellion reactor recently for example?) What game was this? I want to watch! | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On December 03 2013 01:49 Lyyna wrote: Bad engagement by him also : basically half of his tanks weren't in range of the protoss army, and most of them were firing on a few zealots coming from the 3rd :/ The main immortal force was basically untouched and destroyed all the hellbats with a perfect concave But the opening.. waow. TvP mech openings at pro lvl seems super agressive (i guess it was Supernova who did this gas first hellion reactor recently for example?) True that his engagement wasn't great, but at the same time the protoss also wasn't exactly doing a great engagement. The half flank helped, but letting a mech player siege up right outside your natural so you have to come through the choke also generally isn't a good idea. | ||
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
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Taefox
1533 Posts
http://www.gomtv.net/2013gstls2/vod/80902 | ||
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