EPT[G] PvT Cheese: 4 Gate Blink/Obs All-In - Page 3
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Patate
Canada441 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Geiko
France2036 Posts
The guide however could be much more in-depth, mainly:
With all of this added I feel this guide could maybe become part of the recommended threads  | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On December 07 2012 22:21 Geiko wrote: Good guide, I use this build all the time with great success against high master / GM players. The guide however could be much more in-depth, mainly:
With all of this added I feel this guide could maybe become part of the recommended threads Yes. Those are pretty much the reasons i didn't include it in the recent update. | ||
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Allred
United States352 Posts
very similiar to this build i wrote about several months ago PvT Blink Staler harass opening It seems the only major difference is that i delay my attack a few seconds and drop down a nexus and turn it into a macro game instead of going all in, so if you are able to do both, could make it very tricky for the terran player to decide how to respond. | ||
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Drisc
France3 Posts
http://www.sendspace.com/file/sjcabn http://www.sendspace.com/file/726cvx | ||
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SkaPunk
United States471 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Tommyth
Poland117 Posts
On December 07 2012 22:21 Geiko wrote:
Well, he wrote that u need to be sure it's rax FE, going for this build against gas openings is very very risky, as it outright loses to any rax based aggresion off 1 base. I like to delay my council a little bit and open with 3 stalker rush(just like pvp). It allows me to easily deflect marine-SCV all in, which sometimes is very difficult to scout(last position on antiga/full wall off), and the stalkers can still inflict some damage before blink finishes. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Geiko
France2036 Posts
On December 11 2012 03:56 Sated wrote: You can use it against Marine/Tank/Banshee play because Blink Stalkers can beat that composition if micro'd properly, especially before Siege Mode is ready. The problem is that a good Terran won't let you see whether their gas opening is for a 2 Rax play or a Factory play, and this build really isn't that good against dedicated 2 Rax aggression. That's why I don't recommend using it against a Terran who opens with an early gas. You have both a Twilight Council and a Robotics Facility, so it transitions into either Colossus or Templar-based play just fine. I prefer going for Colossi since they have better synergy with Blink Stalkers, to be honest, but I've seen both follow-ups being used in the pro scene. EDIT: From the Protoss Help Me Thread: 2 rax FE usually doesn't push up your main ramp once they scout that you haven't expanded because if you went for an aggressive 3 gate and they go up the ramp, they lose the game. This build really works against any kind of terran opening that isn't marine scv allins or any kind of proxy barracks. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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snively
United States1159 Posts
On November 10 2012 07:03 Teoita wrote: I'm fairly sure Deezer also map hacked. LOL theres his 80% win rate for you. on topic: great guide i will add this to my toolbox of builds | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
A finals between Puma on Belshir Beach comes to mind, Puma leaves Heros stargate aline until WAY late in the game, even though he scouted it super early because he can't spare the units to kill it until after He has Hero pinned on 2 bases to his four. I have played over 200 games against this build. What I meant to say (and it came across as a balance whine) is that you are having great success despite bad strategy. Because this all-in is so strong, you don't need to hide anything to win at the pro, or any other level. (see Hero vs Taeja dreamhack g4 on Antiga, Hero gives Taeja's SCV a tour of his base and still roflstomps without even trying to cancel the stim researching right in the middle of Taejas base) I don't really have a problem beating this at master level when I know it is coming. But when they proxy and I have less units and delayed my addons because they forced an extra bunker or a turret, THAT I can't beat without a blind counter to one of four possible strategies. But again, I can't think of a game where I was safe to leave my base and the Protoss didnt GG before I did or I couldnt kill their main with rallying reinforcements. Planning for transition after you scout 1 rax fe is silly imo. TLDR blink really really good, proxy blink is better. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On December 11 2012 07:47 U_G_L_Y wrote: If the game gets to the point where Terran can leave their base and not lose, Protoss has lost. There is no transition vs 1 rax fe. If I can get units to your proxy, I will just kill you, screw the proxy. A finals between Puma on Belshir Beach comes to mind, Puma leaves Heros stargate aline until WAY late in the game, even though he scouted it super early because he can't spare the units to kill it until after He has Hero pinned on 2 bases to his four. I have played over 200 games against this build. What I meant to say (and it came across as a balance whine) is that you are having great success despite bad strategy. Because this all-in is so strong, you don't need to hide anything to win at the pro, or any other level. (see Hero vs Taeja dreamhack g4 on Antiga, Hero gives Taeja's SCV a tour of his base and still roflstomps without even trying to cancel the stim researching right in the middle of Taejas base) I don't really have a problem beating this at master level when I know it is coming. But when they proxy and I have less units and delayed my addons because they forced an extra bunker or a turret, THAT I can't beat without a blind counter to one of four possible strategies. But again, I can't think of a game where I was safe to leave my base and the Protoss didnt GG before I did or I couldnt kill their main with rallying reinforcements. Planning for transition after you scout 1 rax fe is silly imo. TLDR blink really really good, proxy blink is better. ...what Wrong. They transition fine if they cut a round of stalkers and nexus. They have TC + stalkers for drop defense. Drop double forge, and get charge and defend your self with chargelot archon with blink stalkers harassing as long as possible. When they move out to hit, FF him, target down medics and just let chargelots charge in and clear the army. If not a DT follow up. It's not always as all in as you think. And what... proxy what? The early 2 gas still gives it away as a tech build. Safe play is standard against 2 gas protoss that early with a skipped zeal. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
Every Marauder you make against 3 gate voidray hurts you. Marines are terrible against blink stalkers until they get upgrades. Responding the same way to all 2 gas openings is just dumb. Why would you evacuate your natural against a 4 gate or DT rush or immortal bust? You're telling me that the instant they see your missing pylon they just lift their natural? And that this is a good thing? Also, I disagree that 2 rax counters this. Protoss can handle offensive 2 rax by delaying the build to get sentries and holding the watchtower, and then eventually making a warp prism instead of an observer. With a defensive 2 rax, it is about even footing. Jeffrey: If a Protoss did enough damage with the first couple blinks that he can resume probe production and expand and research charge and storm or colossus while keeping you contained, then he should be able to just kill you without doing those things. I have gotten back into games that were lost when Protoss tried this. Not all of them, but upon watching the replays where the game went long, had they spent the money on units instead, I feel that the Protosses that expanded were just toying with me/messing around because in every case I felt they could have killed me had they spent the money differently. I am glad you have had a different experience. | ||
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