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Thank you for the guide.
I like getting a second stalker out of the gateway, because it gives me a better chance to deny scouting of my natural. I only do this build in Antiga, so I search around a bit and leave a stalker in each side of the intersection in front of the natural ramp, forwardish. I also get more probes, so my first attack doesn't hit as fast as yours, but I still find it worth it.
It's important to target tech labs with the stalkers when possible, since delaying stim and marauders assure that can you can keep on pressuring.
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I do this build all the time, with around an 80 / 90 percent win rate.
On Cloud Kingdom and Antiga it's pretty OP.
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As a terran player, I can attest to how much this build makes me want to strangle someone. It is possibly the most infuriating build to play against, and I wholeheartedly recommend it for anyone who wants to make a terran really, REALLY angry.
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United States8477 Posts
On November 10 2012 13:41 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 05:35 monk. wrote:
Yea I would also recommend linking to vods. MC has done it 3-4 times on Antiga. Creator did it on Antiga in the TSL.
Also, I would recommend adding replays against a variety of strategies. 1-1-1, 1 rax fe, hellion drop, 2 rax, etc... As quite obviously stated in the OP, I wouldn't recommend using this build against any Terran strategy that builds a Refinery before expanding. This excludes all the builds that you've mentioned except for the 1 Rax FE. To quote the OP: Show nested quote +This build should only be used against opponents that you know are going for a  1 Rax FE (vs. Protoss) strategy as its strength lies in incredibly greedy Twilight Council, Blink and Robotics Facility timings. This greediness means that you will only have a single Stalker out on the field for a very prolonged amount of time and this makes you very weak against a Terran opponent who is planning to go for any sort of pressure before you attack commences. For example, you would flat out die if the opponent pressured you with a Two Rax Shells FE (vs. Protoss) build.
This build is quite commonly done against gas builds though and is effective against factory builds. A complete guide should include some mention of play vs fact builds
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hi, first off thanks for the thread.
I have to say i do agree with monk. and Teoita tbh. You should add more replays showing the build vs different styles. It's not unimportant to have them by any means, just because in my eyes you need at least half a dozen replays in which this strat is used against different styles the terran does. ofc its most efficient against 1 rax fe - but even with this strat there r different follow ups to it - for example the terran scouting it early enough and deciding to bunker up in his main or something. seeing different replays also teach u a lot about positioning in different situations etc. 
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United States8477 Posts
On November 10 2012 15:02 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 14:58 monk. wrote:On November 10 2012 13:41 Sated wrote:On November 10 2012 05:35 monk. wrote:
Yea I would also recommend linking to vods. MC has done it 3-4 times on Antiga. Creator did it on Antiga in the TSL.
Also, I would recommend adding replays against a variety of strategies. 1-1-1, 1 rax fe, hellion drop, 2 rax, etc... As quite obviously stated in the OP, I wouldn't recommend using this build against any Terran strategy that builds a Refinery before expanding. This excludes all the builds that you've mentioned except for the 1 Rax FE. To quote the OP: This build should only be used against opponents that you know are going for a 1 Rax FE (vs. Protoss) strategy as its strength lies in incredibly greedy Twilight Council, Blink and Robotics Facility timings. This greediness means that you will only have a single Stalker out on the field for a very prolonged amount of time and this makes you very weak against a Terran opponent who is planning to go for any sort of pressure before you attack commences. For example, you would flat out die if the opponent pressured you with a Two Rax Shells FE (vs. Protoss) build. This build is quite commonly done against gas builds though and is effective against factory builds. A complete guide should include some mention of play vs fact builds Effective if you're lucky. No good Terran is going to let you see what they're doing beyond Refinery/No Refinery and so using this build after scouting a Refinery is a total coin-flip... ... but that's coming from me, a Protoss player whose standard PvT opening is 2 Gate Robo. I don't personally think that this all-in is safe vs. anything other than a 1 Rax FE and so don't feel safe writing about such.
Maybe it's a coin flip, but it's a flip with very good chances. After all, no Terran goes 2 rax anymore on today's maps. And many Protoss do take this flip in the GSL.
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Italy12248 Posts
Yep reactor 2rax is pretty common on EU. I still think you could adjust your build to the point where it's holdable though.
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Have you guys ever faced a base trade playing this style?
I played this on cloud last night and was doing pretty well. I got quite unlucky as his scout hit the perfect anti timing as my fest stalker popped but he sent his SCV in the nick of time where the last shot my stalker used to kill it was in natural range so he knew I was on one base at just before 5:00. He then scanned about a minute later and caught the robo (not the TC) but he figured it out and had 2 bunkers on the low ground and 2 in his main.
He played standard. 3 rax into factory with one EBay and later tried to add 2 more rax. He defended well by I eventually caught a few units and a bunker in the main with no Scvs and quickly sniped it. Then I got to the low ground an sniped a handful of SCVs. Then I got back into the main and killed off stim and more SCVs. A minute later I did it again. It started to snowball and I got way ahead (I thought). Then one time I blinked in his main and started killing shit with no resistance. Just then I caught on the xelnaga his whole army moving to my base. I warped in a couple sentries at home but that didnt slow him down at all obviously. I also pumped an immortal which died without much fight. I eventually got about 8 zealots and 3 sentries warped into my proxy to defend my nexus I built at his 3rd. But by the time he arrived his 3 medivac. 20ish marine, 5 marauder army with shells but no stim absolutely shit on me. Any idea how to engage this with primarily Blink stalkers?
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On November 13 2012 06:57 Dubsy wrote:
Have you guys ever faced a base trade playing this style?
I played this on cloud last night and was doing pretty well. I got quite unlucky as his scout hit the perfect anti timing as my fest stalker popped but he sent his SCV in the nick of time where the last shot my stalker used to kill it was in natural range so he knew I was on one base at just before 5:00. He then scanned about a minute later and caught the robo (not the TC) but he figured it out and had 2 bunkers on the low ground and 2 in his main.
He played standard. 3 rax into factory with one EBay and later tried to add 2 more rax. He defended well by I eventually caught a few units and a bunker in the main with no Scvs and quickly sniped it. Then I got to the low ground an sniped a handful of SCVs. Then I got back into the main and killed off stim and more SCVs. A minute later I did it again. It started to snowball and I got way ahead (I thought). Then one time I blinked in his main and started killing shit with no resistance. Just then I caught on the xelnaga his whole army moving to my base. I warped in a couple sentries at home but that didnt slow him down at all obviously. I also pumped an immortal which died without much fight. I eventually got about 8 zealots and 3 sentries warped into my proxy to defend my nexus I built at his 3rd. But by the time he arrived his 3 medivac. 20ish marine, 5 marauder army with shells but no stim absolutely shit on me. Any idea how to engage this with primarily Blink stalkers?
You'd be best off to post a replay with this, but you generally shouldn't be doing this vs a 1 base terran as mentioned in the OP
Based on what you've mentioned though, the best response is to scout him moving out and try and pick off units and blink away as he gets near your base(medivacs > marauders > marines in terms of priority) If you can manage to snipe all 3 medivacs you should win, just constantly forcefield your ramp and kill everything you can till he retreats as you build up. Make sure you snipe any medivacs as they pop from the starport while you're doing this though.
Failing all that if you actually really think you can't win without engaging the army it basically comes down to blink control ;p
Have the immortal shift-target all the marauders, try and disrupt his concave with forcefields and pop a guardian shield and just blink back hurt stalkers as best you can.+ Show Spoiler + This is more of an absolute last resort or something to do after you've followed what I've said above(picking off units and blinking away, most importantly medivacs, as he moves out towards your base) though.
I still think it's best not to do this vs a terran who you haven't confirmed to have expanded though and you should still post a replay. =D
*Edit* Oh, ignore the stuff about not doing it vs a 1 base terran, apperently I misread your post a bit I thought you said he was on one base, not you. (still don't do the build vs a 1 base terran though ;p) The rest however is still relevant.
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Yeah sorry I kinda implied he was working off a gasless FE. So I'm thinking my best bet woulda been to GTFO his main as soon as I saw him moving out correct? To try to be there to fight at my ramp?
This definitely would have been ideal as then I could actually FF the ramp (he obviously just lifted all his units when I did it in this game as I only had a couple sentries). I guess my biggest problem was recognizing it too late because I didn't think I could get my stalkers home in time to help fight. I like to have at least one obs on his army but he was VERY dilligent about sniping them with scans making my blink ins a little riskier. Guess I will staring leaving a zealot on the path home so I know when it's time to get out of dodge. If I could fight a my ramp with FF and probes I would have crushed that. Thanks.
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On November 13 2012 07:54 Dubsy wrote:
Yeah sorry I kinda implied he was working off a gasless FE. So I'm thinking my best bet woulda been to GTFO his main as soon as I saw him moving out correct? To try to be there to fight at my ramp?
This definitely would have been ideal as then I could actually FF the ramp (he obviously just lifted all his units when I did it in this game as I only had a couple sentries). I guess my biggest problem was recognizing it too late because I didn't think I could get my stalkers home in time to help fight. I like to have at least one obs on his army but he was VERY dilligent about sniping them with scans making my blink ins a little riskier. Guess I will staring leaving a zealot on the path home so I know when it's time to get out of dodge. If I could fight a my ramp with FF and probes I would have crushed that. Thanks.
Your best bet would have been to get out of his main and start sniping medivacs, marauders, and marines(medivacs with highest importance) as he moved across map. Snipe them by targetfiring one with all your stalkers and then blink away and run them till blink goes off cooldown and go back and repeat, so you don't lose any stalkers.
Then when he gets to your main, yes you could confront him with forcefields and good blink micro, but like I said above, if you manage to snipe all the medivacs you can just keep him forcefielded out and go back and ravage his main some more. Just be diligent about sniping any medivacs he tries to produce if you attempt this. ;p
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This build is definitly good vs. 1 Rax FE
versus other builds not so much.
But it is also holdable by Terran, you have to pull SCVs though
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Been looking for this for a while, thank you.
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On November 13 2012 06:57 Dubsy wrote:
Have you guys ever faced a base trade playing this style?
I played this on cloud last night and was doing pretty well. I got quite unlucky as his scout hit the perfect anti timing as my fest stalker popped but he sent his SCV in the nick of time where the last shot my stalker used to kill it was in natural range so he knew I was on one base at just before 5:00. He then scanned about a minute later and caught the robo (not the TC) but he figured it out and had 2 bunkers on the low ground and 2 in his main.
He played standard. 3 rax into factory with one EBay and later tried to add 2 more rax. He defended well by I eventually caught a few units and a bunker in the main with no Scvs and quickly sniped it. Then I got to the low ground an sniped a handful of SCVs. Then I got back into the main and killed off stim and more SCVs. A minute later I did it again. It started to snowball and I got way ahead (I thought). Then one time I blinked in his main and started killing shit with no resistance. Just then I caught on the xelnaga his whole army moving to my base. I warped in a couple sentries at home but that didnt slow him down at all obviously. I also pumped an immortal which died without much fight. I eventually got about 8 zealots and 3 sentries warped into my proxy to defend my nexus I built at his 3rd. But by the time he arrived his 3 medivac. 20ish marine, 5 marauder army with shells but no stim absolutely shit on me. Any idea how to engage this with primarily Blink stalkers?
Honestly a base trade should favor you pretty heavily since your army is already at his base while his has to walk all the way across the map.
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EPT
