• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:14
CEST 19:14
KST 02:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners6Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)8[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9996 users

[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 52 53 54 55 56 78 Next
astazha
Profile Joined June 2013
United States29 Posts
July 09 2013 04:05 GMT
#1061
On July 09 2013 02:23 JaKaTaK wrote:
If we could measure oversaturation (16-24 as well as 24+) that would be really fucking cool, but I haven't come up with anything yet.


Can you look for disparities between worker count and total (gas + mineral) income, averaged over a minute? Some leniency would be required for workers that had just been built, and it might take some tuning but I think it would at least make it obvious if someone mines a base out and doesn't move their workers, etc.
All hail the Overgoat!
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 09 2013 15:25 GMT
#1062
worker efficiency is something we already tried. It turns out that Masters players aren't very much better at making their workers efficient than silver league players. It might be useful for seeing how long it takes players to transfer like you were talking about.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 13:35:21
July 10 2013 13:18 GMT
#1063
GGTracker is fantastic, I can not beleive I have not used this until now.

One question though:
Does the tool take into consideration if you que up your units or not? Ie if I que up 5 tanks in one factory is that calculated as having spent all those resources immediatley or not?

It is a bit weird that the tool says that my Spending skill is on Grand Master level even though I am only Diamond. Maybe the tool overestimate the spending skill of Terran players since it easier to accidently que up units compared to Zerg and Protoss?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 15:53:15
July 10 2013 15:52 GMT
#1064
Hi Mock!

Spending is just one of many elements that lead to victory or defeat in a game of Sc2. Your strategy and decision making, Saturation Speed, and Micro also play huge roles in determining what league you end up in. If your Spending Skill is consistently GM, start looking at your Saturation Speed. If you consistenly have GM/M for those metrics then its likely a lack of multitasking and good decision making/strategy that are keeping you from promotion.

Queing up units does count towards Spending (as we can't know if you are queuing units or not at this stage of GGTracker's development). That is something you will have to police yourself. You should try to keep the queue to 2 or less, 3 at the absolute max and only in special situations.

Hope that helps, let me know if you need anything

JaK

EDIT: It's ma birf-day yo!
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 19:01:51
July 10 2013 19:00 GMT
#1065
I checked my replays carefully and I actually que very little (except for SCVs). My spending skill is at Grandmaster level but my saturation speed is only Gold. I guess I should take expansions faster? But then again I play Mech which means that you have to be very carefull about expanding compared to bio.

It would be cool if the tool could keep track of playstyles and figure out which playstyles are the most succefull, both in general and on the personal level. If you can parse which units you build it would be possible to classify players as Mech or Bio players based on the proportion between different units.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 10 2013 19:05 GMT
#1066
@Mock

Make sure you read up what Saturation Speed really is:

http://ggtracker.com/saturation_speed
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
July 10 2013 20:12 GMT
#1067
@JakaTak

Thanks for the link! If I interpret this correclty you can game the system so that you get GM Saturation Speed by expanding as late as possible so have already pre-built the SCVs to immediatly sature the expansions?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 10 2013 20:35 GMT
#1068
that is correct. But for your own benefit, I suggest not gaming the system We're working on improving the metric.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
dsjoerg
Profile Joined January 2012
United States384 Posts
July 10 2013 21:50 GMT
#1069
HAPPY BIRFDAY JaKaTaK!
card-carrying grubby fan. developer of GGTracker.
fengshaun
Profile Joined April 2012
149 Posts
July 11 2013 04:57 GMT
#1070
LOL, happy birthday Jak!
Magistrate737
Profile Joined August 2012
United States7 Posts
July 13 2013 18:38 GMT
#1071
Hi JaK, I just wanted to say thank you for the amazing tools you've given the community. I had gotten frustrated with ladder, and I'd quit for a few months. I came back, got placed in bronze (I was in silver before I stopped) and got even more discouraged. I then decided to give TheStaircase a try. I got into gold within the week. Thank you for helping me to have much more fun with ladder than I ever have in the past.
"Paper is overpowered. Scissors is fine." --Rock
Tertyshny
Profile Joined November 2010
Russian Federation25 Posts
July 13 2013 21:03 GMT
#1072
Staircase makes theCore learning so much easier. I started both of them at the same time, and i have very good experience.
Thanks JakaTaK
Borgbilly
Profile Joined May 2012
United States21 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-14 14:14:12
July 14 2013 14:11 GMT
#1073
Edit: Derrrrp I'm silly. Ignore this post.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 14 2013 17:03 GMT
#1074
Thanks so much! Releasing a new video shortly! Hopefully we can get this whole tutorial for TheStaircase streamlined soon
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
jcr2001
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Singapore53 Posts
July 19 2013 14:14 GMT
#1075
A thought just came to me, is it possible to create a kind of SQ over time graph in games so that we know when we slipped in macro?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 19 2013 14:33 GMT
#1076
Oooooo, that sounds awesome. I'll ask dsj.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
teuthida
Profile Joined March 2013
United States104 Posts
July 19 2013 16:01 GMT
#1077
On July 19 2013 23:14 jcr2001 wrote:
A thought just came to me, is it possible to create a kind of SQ over time graph in games so that we know when we slipped in macro?



This would be cool for GGtracker in general, as I find games where you get all-in'd or that go on super long cause your SQ to plummet. So it'd be nice to see if you ever had good SQ in the course of a normal game (not even staircase necessarily).
jcr2001
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Singapore53 Posts
July 20 2013 04:40 GMT
#1078
I was visualising it to look like this with our SQ overlayed on top of it: http://ggtracker.com/spending_skill_stats#?race=protoss&gateway=am

Maybe the ability to switch between different leagues rather than displaying all league statistics instead.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 20 2013 15:45 GMT
#1079
mmm That's definitely something we'll be working on in the future. Currently we're working on fixing Saturation Speed and getting the GUI / Subscription Service working for TheStaircase on GGTracker.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Zaal
Profile Joined July 2013
2 Posts
July 22 2013 23:47 GMT
#1080
Hi !

It seems to be a great way of improvement and I want to try it out myself, but I have a question about step 1, does it mean that you can only build worker ? Or can we build given units too ?

Thanks
Prev 1 52 53 54 55 56 78 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season Finals: Group Stage 2
Serral2149
uThermal2031
RotterdaM858
TaKeTV 457
mouzHeroMarine384
IndyStarCraft 222
SteadfastSC144
BRAT_OK 111
SHIN 104
LamboSC238
SpiritSC217
Classic17
sc2solar14
Shameless7
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 2149
uThermal 2031
RotterdaM 858
mouzHeroMarine 384
IndyStarCraft 222
SteadfastSC 144
BRAT_OK 111
SHIN 104
LamboSC2 38
SpiritSC2 17
Classic 17
sc2solar 14
ProTech2
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26569
Calm 4063
Sea 2405
Sea.KH 53
Hyun 50
Shine 50
Pusan 34
IntoTheRainbow 29
Rock 26
Sacsri 24
[ Show more ]
GoRush 13
Noble 5
Dota 2
qojqva3777
Counter-Strike
fl0m9019
olofmeister1134
zeus565
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King99
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor321
MindelVK10
Other Games
gofns35989
tarik_tv10636
singsing2196
Grubby1400
B2W.Neo259
Hui .154
ArmadaUGS105
QueenE52
Chillindude8
OptimusSC22
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1349
gamesdonequick494
BasetradeTV194
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 8
• iHatsuTV 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach47
• 80smullet 9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota273
Other Games
• Shiphtur34
Upcoming Events
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1h 46m
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
17h 46m
OSC
1d 6h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
OSC
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.