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On September 13 2012 04:36 FuzzySc2 wrote: If the zerg is doing nothing but putting down spines and teching, all you have to do is not do the stalker rotation you usually do and get all your tech out before investing into units that can be massed later on, basically what this means is you can get all your heavy gass units + upgrades right off the bat instead of having to invest money into stalkers where in a normal game they would be required to "stay alive". Youre of course going to make stalkers but its just a different timing. That and take a 4th base ^_^. When you maxx out at around 14 min with archon stalker collosus mothership you can push out kill the Z army and be able to replace w/e you lost while the Z cant remake his army because of how much he invested into spines and ect. If you miss this timing you might lose though ^_^ At most part i try do this except the part with Pushing at min 14? I can get fast Colossi and Fleat beacon but Mothership needs 4min+ for the vortex to be ready from the moment on i decide to make fleat beacon ( and i can be 100% sure what Z does at around min 12 ). So i usually have 4th base with fast 7/8th Gas, Double Ups and Colossi starting at min 12 which leads in a push Timing around min 16(robodock 60 seconds, 2 Colossi 120 secs, moveing out) vs Mass Spine/BL/Infestor ._.
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fuzzy very good steal his builds and brain if you want to be op )
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On September 13 2012 06:52 CrystaX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:36 FuzzySc2 wrote: If the zerg is doing nothing but putting down spines and teching, all you have to do is not do the stalker rotation you usually do and get all your tech out before investing into units that can be massed later on, basically what this means is you can get all your heavy gass units + upgrades right off the bat instead of having to invest money into stalkers where in a normal game they would be required to "stay alive". Youre of course going to make stalkers but its just a different timing. That and take a 4th base ^_^. When you maxx out at around 14 min with archon stalker collosus mothership you can push out kill the Z army and be able to replace w/e you lost while the Z cant remake his army because of how much he invested into spines and ect. If you miss this timing you might lose though ^_^ At most part i try do this except the part with Pushing at min 14? I can get fast Colossi and Fleat beacon but Mothership needs 4min+ for the vortex to be ready from the moment on i decide to make fleat beacon ( and i can be 100% sure what Z does at around min 12 ). So i usually have 4th base with fast 7/8th Gas, Double Ups and Colossi starting at min 12 which leads in a push Timing around min 16(robodock 60 seconds, 2 Colossi 120 secs, moveing out) vs Mass Spine/BL/Infestor ._. youre pushing way too late, try fixing some timings on your tech and ect
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On September 13 2012 07:05 viPro- wrote:fuzzy very good steal his builds and brain if you want to be op  ) not sure how i feel about people stealing my brain but they are free to copy the builds :D
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This guide's pretty awesome and I like it, but I don't think it covers much that isn't covered in belial's guide. :/ It's interesting to have a new perspective and opening, but it seems like a less-comprehensive version of those guides. I still like it, and I love it when the best players in the world post guides! Always interesting to read, but again i feel like its already been covered 
Reps will be awesome to watch though :D thanks for the writeup also! It's a lot of work writing guides
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On September 13 2012 08:17 Mavvie wrote:This guide's pretty awesome and I like it, but I don't think it covers much that isn't covered in belial's guide. :/ It's interesting to have a new perspective and opening, but it seems like a less-comprehensive version of those guides. I still like it, and I love it when the best players in the world post guides! Always interesting to read, but again i feel like its already been covered  Reps will be awesome to watch though :D thanks for the writeup also! It's a lot of work writing guides ill work on upping the content, and replays :D
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FUZZY! you FINALLY made a guide! Thank you so much! It was great seeing you kick ass at MLG
(This is EndOfLine btw)
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On September 13 2012 09:12 BuiBui wrote: FUZZY! you FINALLY made a guide! Thank you so much! It was great seeing you kick ass at MLG
(This is EndOfLine btw) haha np ^_^ ill be making more if this one gets good reception xD
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On September 13 2012 09:19 FuzzySc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:12 BuiBui wrote: FUZZY! you FINALLY made a guide! Thank you so much! It was great seeing you kick ass at MLG
(This is EndOfLine btw) haha np ^_^ ill be making more if this one gets good reception xD
Will be trying out you stuff!
EDIT: This guide is amazing! Looking forward to the zvz and zvt!!!
EDIT EDIT: with your open, played 2 protoss and 1 terran, ruined them both!!
Question: how much supply should I have by 8min? 65? 70? 75? 80?
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I'm too bitter to read this guide, Fuzzy has beat me in ZvZ too many times! haha <3
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On September 13 2012 09:20 BuiBui wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:19 FuzzySc2 wrote:On September 13 2012 09:12 BuiBui wrote: FUZZY! you FINALLY made a guide! Thank you so much! It was great seeing you kick ass at MLG
(This is EndOfLine btw) haha np ^_^ ill be making more if this one gets good reception xD Will be trying out you stuff! EDIT: This guide is amazing! Looking forward to the zvz and zvt!!! EDIT EDIT: with your open, played 2 protoss and 1 terran, ruined them both!! Question: how much supply should I have by 8min? 65? 70? 75? 80? depends a lot on the game but 75-80 if you made nothing but drones and 3 queens
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On September 13 2012 22:55 TangSC wrote: I'm too bitter to read this guide, Fuzzy has beat me in ZvZ too many times! haha <3 its okay as long as youre not protoss ^_^
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On September 13 2012 23:28 FuzzySc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:20 BuiBui wrote:On September 13 2012 09:19 FuzzySc2 wrote:On September 13 2012 09:12 BuiBui wrote: FUZZY! you FINALLY made a guide! Thank you so much! It was great seeing you kick ass at MLG
(This is EndOfLine btw) haha np ^_^ ill be making more if this one gets good reception xD Will be trying out you stuff! EDIT: This guide is amazing! Looking forward to the zvz and zvt!!! EDIT EDIT: with your open, played 2 protoss and 1 terran, ruined them both!! Question: how much supply should I have by 8min? 65? 70? 75? 80? depends a lot on the game but 75-80 if you made nothing but drones and 3 queens
excellent. So far This build feels really really strong! Won every zvp game so far :D
What are your OL timings after 42?
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I think your playstyle is very intelligent. Its something i will be copying .
I was wondering if you could post some macro benchmarks or replays? It would really help me determine what i need to work on.
Thanks for the guide, will hope to see some on ZvT and ZvZ ^^
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Just wondering, is such a late third actually beneficial? I can't believe it is, and I see no reason not to as you're safe until 8:00, and each extra supply of unit you can get out by then helps tremendously.
I'll compare the two once I get home, but i don't see the benefits.
Edit: you say that it better to go slow third? O.o I trust you, but I won't believe it until I see it
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On September 14 2012 07:44 Mavvie wrote:Just wondering, is such a late third actually beneficial? I can't believe it is, and I see no reason not to as you're safe until 8:00, and each extra supply of unit you can get out by then helps tremendously. I'll compare the two once I get home, but i don't see the benefits. Edit: you say that it better to go slow third? O.o I trust you, but I won't believe it until I see it 
Im pretty sure he explained it in the opening. You get a third slower but in exchange you get drones faster, so you get more mining time. The third doesn't boost your economy just boosts your larva. With a fast 3rd you don't actually get 2 bases fully saturated. But with this build you get 2 bases fully saturated by the time the third is done.
I've tried it out and it seems better to me. But i could be wrong.
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On September 14 2012 08:56 TobinYJ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 07:44 Mavvie wrote:Just wondering, is such a late third actually beneficial? I can't believe it is, and I see no reason not to as you're safe until 8:00, and each extra supply of unit you can get out by then helps tremendously. I'll compare the two once I get home, but i don't see the benefits. Edit: you say that it better to go slow third? O.o I trust you, but I won't believe it until I see it  Im pretty sure he explained it in the opening. You get a third slower but in exchange you get drones faster, so you get more mining time. The third doesn't boost your economy just boosts your larva. With a fast 3rd you don't actually get 2 bases fully saturated. But with this build you get 2 bases fully saturated by the time the third is done. I've tried it out and it seems better to me. But i could be wrong.
Agreed.
Seems very larve effiicient
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This is such a great post, thanks for taking the time to lay it out for us - really makes some of the decision making paths very clear.
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Great guide! One question though:
If he goes for the Gateway into Nexus push: At what point should I stop droning and start unit production?
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