EPT[G] GM zerg from Complexity academy ZvP guide - Page 6
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RiSkysc2
696 Posts
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nqqvt3
Canada55 Posts
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CodeskyE
United States777 Posts
thanks for the guide | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
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FuzzySc2
Canada140 Posts
On September 23 2012 05:47 sagefreke wrote: You say you don't like doing Infestor+spine turtle and you point out in your guide that you like to go Mutas in your mid game transition if he goes for a quick 3rd. Is there another way to put pressure on a Protoss who gets an early 3rd without going Mutas? This is what hurts me in ZvP the most right now. Would banerain be good for mid game pressure or is it safer to just try and tech up to broodlord/infestor and hope you can shut down the 3 base toss in the late game? Also for Warp Prism play what is the proper response to this? I'll sometimes run into Toss players who will push their main army to my 3rd but then threaten my nat or main with a Warp Prism and at any point they can just warp in a round of Zealots. It could be that I just need better control. However, sometimes they won't even have to warp in a round of zealots and they will just keep the Warp Prism nearby just so they can force me to leave 4-5 roaches in my main/nat and have a weaker main army to defend the push coming at my 3rd. Good guide. What type of push is coming to your 3rd? The way to apply pressure is doing drop play, or just being slightly aggressive with roach ling, keep moving the units around but dont engage if you see that you will do bad in the trade. I cant answer the warp prism question until you give me more detail. If he is doing this while doing a 2 base immortal sentry push then just send 4 roachs up there and then let one hatchery worth of larva rally there and it should be fine. If he is doing this while he has 3 base and youre still on 3 base it doesnt actually matter because youre too low econ so even if the push doesnt kill you, you will still lose. If its a macro game and both sides are equal you should be throwing up spines ^_^ | ||
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FuzzySc2
Canada140 Posts
On September 23 2012 11:21 CodeskyE wrote: OP, i was wondering if you can also cover zvt and zvz? thanks for the guide I will write one eventually for zvz and zvt :D | ||
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CodeskyE
United States777 Posts
On September 23 2012 15:54 FuzzySc2 wrote: I will write one eventually for zvz and zvt :D can't wait man thanks! | ||
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aLtNXZ
Australia36 Posts
Also I have made a small modification on your opener which I feel might be slightly more effective. Your build currently takes a third at around 5:30. The reason your build comes out with more drones quicker is due to spending your 1st inject immediately. I tried delaying the 3rd queen and floating a few extra minerals but getting the hatch at 5 mins instead. The way this worked out was I was at an identical position except I had a faster hatch and one less creep tumour. I think this gains any benefits that your build does but gets the hatch quicker so it is less larva behind the standard build. | ||
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FuzzySc2
Canada140 Posts
On September 24 2012 10:29 aLtNXZ wrote: I have a question regarding taking a third as your natural. I generally feel uncomfortable doing this because my first queen takes too long to reach the 3rd for the inject. So your 2nd queen in your main injects 5-10 secs quicker which makes the build feel very off. Do you have any tips to avoiding this issue or is it unavoidable? Also I have made a small modification on your opener which I feel might be slightly more effective. Your build currently takes a third at around 5:30. The reason your build comes out with more drones quicker is due to spending your 1st inject immediately. I tried delaying the 3rd queen and floating a few extra minerals but getting the hatch at 5 mins instead. The way this worked out was I was at an identical position except I had a faster hatch and one less creep tumour. I think this gains any benefits that your build does but gets the hatch quicker so it is less larva behind the standard build. The only way to overcome feeling uncomfortable with taking the 3rd as the natural is to just mass games out with the build. I dont seem to have any problem with it because ive played it so many times. Even with having the queen walk all the way to the 3rd i still get better supply count per min with the build, the queen shouldnt be missing it by 10s though, make sure youre walking it straight when the first inject happens. Ill test out your variation but the reason why this build is better isnt because the first inject is so fast. The reason this build is good is because the faster hatch doesnt actually give you anything, the creep really denies any type of aggression early on and since youre getting your gasses so quick due to your supply being higher than normal you wont die to normal 2 base gateway pushes. The 3rd queen for me always lays down 2 creep tumors and right when it hits 25 energy again my 3rd base pops and i can inject it. I start 3rd queen right when my natural pops | ||
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Manch1ld
Canada27 Posts
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FuzzySc2
Canada140 Posts
On September 25 2012 03:03 Manch1ld wrote: Thanks for the guide. I can use all the help i can get. np ^_^ | ||
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Templar.
Canada133 Posts
definitely help me out at starting zerg again, only thing i could possible add is talking about forge upgrades/chronos, in chanmanv's Ret session he seemed to talk more about the forge for timings than the gases themselves. | ||
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FuzzySc2
Canada140 Posts
On September 25 2012 04:30 Templar. wrote: Great guide definitely help me out at starting zerg again, only thing i could possible add is talking about forge upgrades/chronos, in chanmanv's Ret session he seemed to talk more about the forge for timings than the gases themselves.There are multiple ways to scout, i find gasses to be the best way and if needed to sac and overlord to see what timing is coming at you. The problem with scouting with forge upgrades or the chrono used on cyber core / gateway is that this can only work vs very high level protoss that have their build refined, and wont help people that are lower than mid-high gm since toss at that point just chrono at random | ||
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aLtNXZ
Australia36 Posts
.Also do you have any reps of defending sentry immortal? And do you take ranged, melee or carapace as your first upgrade? In context of the different 15 pool: do you send a drone to your third at 100 mins and another to your nat at 200? Or do you send the first drone to the natural and if you can't get it there send it to he third. Sorry for asking so many questions. Thanks in advance | ||
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Northern_iight
Canada363 Posts
http://drop.sc/257698 If you can point out any mistakes in the build for me, that will be great. thanks for your time | ||
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FuzzySc2
Canada140 Posts
On September 25 2012 16:40 aLtNXZ wrote: Yeah, I think it might be to do with me having a slightly different 15 pool build but it has been more manageable recently. But yeah the thing is when your third is 1 min later you lose 4 larva. I was proposing a close to identical build just having 1 less tumour and 2 larva more from the third. This means in the shortrun you have 1 less tumour but 2 extra drones. Your build has very slick timings though so perhaps messing with it slightly will effect it. Also in response to more supply, your only advantage would be an extra drone mining for longer when compared to a regular fast third. Also do you have any reps of defending sentry immortal? And do you take ranges, melter or carapace as your diet upgrade? In context of the different 15 pool: do you send a drone to your third at 100 mind and another to your nat at 200? Or do you send the first drone to the natural and if you can't get it there send it to he third. Sorry for asking so many questions. Thanks in advance np, ill post replays eventually xD you send out 2 drones because if youre playing a good toss and he throws down a pylon at the natural he will move his probe to the 3rd and then you cant get any hatch down ^_^ | ||
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FuzzySc2
Canada140 Posts
On September 25 2012 23:39 Northern_iight wrote: hey fuzzy can you look over this replay for me? I'm doing the delayed hatch build and I can't hit the 11 min max out mark. I'm doing this without any opponent either, imagine if opponent had pressured me. I can usually hit 200/200 at 11:15 with 14p,16h,15overlord with fast 3rd at around 11:20. With the delayed hatch build I'm hitting it at 11:45 http://drop.sc/257698 If you can point out any mistakes in the build for me, that will be great. thanks for your time Firstly, it needs to be a little refined there are times when you have larva + minerals and they dont turn to drones right away it takes 1-3s before theyre used. You should transfer drones to your natural dont rally point from main to natural. You got supply blocked at 52 supply and were floating around 300 minerals at that time. Macro hatch was way too early, main at 7:30 isnt saturated you need 2-3 more drones on it. when you started making mass roach you werent fully saturated, you needed 5 more drones. Injects need work your main queen was able to inject natural after main at 9:30 and your queen at the 3rd was sitting at 40+ energy at the same time. That being said your supply was 170ish by 11min which is technically good enough vs most toss that are under mid GM as long as you can continue to inject while doing the agression. Fix all those things and you can max out faster ^_^ | ||
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Poo
Canada536 Posts
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
What is your Ovie/roach approach/schedule when going for a max. Do you start making 2 ovies at once, or 3 at once at certain supply amounts? Do you make an ovie once one pops? What is your signal for making more ovies? | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
Edit: Also, you said double spire... Is it really worth spending that much gas on an extra spire and upgrades? | ||
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