EPT[G] PvZ 4 gate robo into 3rd - Page 3
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cvgHuShang
Canada95 Posts
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SuPern00b
24 Posts
Tell me what u think of this replay, he saw that i took 3rd and kept the pressure and then went into hydras. http://www.mediafire.com/?lypuyvc4u2j731e Ow and btw Tassadar, can i incorporate haluc in the build to scout mutas maybe? thx =) | ||
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jackalope1234
122 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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loko1275
11 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On June 15 2012 01:29 cvgHuShang wrote: That's the problem i have with this build atm, scouting muta in time if he hides the spire This is also the problem I have with this build when taking a third. What is the best response? I have issues with Observer scouting because sometimes I simply don't find the Spire in time, it is too slow. And then I die. I've thought about purchasing Hallucinate for scouting. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On June 15 2012 06:24 jackalope1234 wrote: I appreciate you doing a guide, but a fast robo into third is a bad build which you will lose with vs a zerg who goes muta and does it correctly. DRGesque. That's only true if you heavily commit to sentry/immortal without scouting. If you make an observer right away and check them out, you can just take the third and prepare for muta like normal. It's not so much that the build is bad, just that the players who do it usually are terrible and don't bother to scout, so they die to mutas, whereas stargate (~4-5 phoenix) into a third genius style is safe against anything so it looks stronger because it's easier to do. | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On June 15 2012 01:29 cvgHuShang wrote: i feel like you just threw down the stargates before scouting anything in the ohana game. How did you know he was going muta O.o? That's the problem i have with this build atm, scouting muta in time if he hides the spire so i sent my observer to him, then i checked his main first to see whether he has tech or anything, afterwards i saw that he was droning and not building units -->tech i counted his gas and still didn t see a tech from him so i went a gamble double stargate and continued scouting when i saw the spines and still noch tech i was 100%sure it was a hidden spire that s why i didn t cancel the stargates On June 15 2012 02:40 SuPern00b wrote: Hi Tassadar, i would like to thank you , i didnt have alot of trouble with the roach style, i thought that i dealt with it quiet well, but this strategy made me see how bad i was doing in comparison. Id like to say that this works like a dream its a little hard with continuous pressure but its just amazing. Heres a replay, this is pretty much how it goes every game its always close but with good macro/micro its pretty insane. Tell me what u think of this replay, he saw that i took 3rd and kept the pressure and then went into hydras. http://www.mediafire.com/?lypuyvc4u2j731e Ow and btw Tassadar, can i incorporate haluc in the build to scout mutas maybe? thx =) first of all of course you can implement haluc, you can go haluc after your warpgate finished or you can get observer first from your robo that s your choice to your replay, i don t like your play at all you go robo first then 3 gates, with that it s much harder to defend mass lings, which are usually freekills if you go 3 gates before robo also your expo was @ min 9, i can play a safe 3. base @min 7-7.45 you both didn t play well, i don t know what level you are but i think you should practice the version i wrote the guide about and then just practice it till you get better  On June 15 2012 06:24 jackalope1234 wrote: I appreciate you doing a guide, but a fast robo into third is a bad build which you will lose with vs a zerg who goes muta and does it correctly. DRGesque. did you even read the build or watch the replays? On June 15 2012 08:41 loko1275 wrote: Hi, how do you deal with zergs dropping their 200 roach supply at 12 minuts ? Some zerg did and i just couldnt survive (or i lost 1 or 2 nexus). well, reading the guide, doing this build and then just macroing will defeat any 200 roach supply @ min 12 On June 15 2012 09:08 BronzeKnee wrote: This is also the problem I have with this build when taking a third. What is the best response? I have issues with Observer scouting because sometimes I simply don't find the Spire in time, it is too slow. And then I die. I've thought about purchasing Hallucinate for scouting. it s a lot about gamesense and good scouting you need to understand what the zerg should be doing, could do, and is doing then you understand it it s all about seeing him droning or making units, seeing how much gases he has and knowing whether he s building defensive buildings like spines it s not easy, but if you get better you will know that your opponent is hidding tech On June 15 2012 09:51 oOOoOphidian wrote: That's only true if you heavily commit to sentry/immortal without scouting. If you make an observer right away and check them out, you can just take the third and prepare for muta like normal. It's not so much that the build is bad, just that the players who do it usually are terrible and don't bother to scout, so they die to mutas, whereas stargate (~4-5 phoenix) into a third genius style is safe against anything so it looks stronger because it's easier to do. well said, thank you | ||
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Westy
England808 Posts
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On June 15 2012 23:10 Westy wrote: Any replays of you winning against a zerg who goes for maxed roach and ling drops? I have been doing this style of fast third for a while now, and it seems to always straight up lose to that kind of build. yep i play vs liquid haypro why did i get that he was dropping? no tech, not a lot of units( he was hidding them) and i saw his overlords and some units moving to the right i also could have assumed that he was going for a hidden spire, but i saw that he was making roaches and double evo chamber http://drop.sc/198298 | ||
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Westy
England808 Posts
On June 15 2012 23:18 Tassadarstarcraft2 wrote: yep i play vs liquid haypro why did i get that he was dropping? no tech, not a lot of units( he was hidding them) and i saw his overlords and some units moving to the right i also could have assumed that he was going for a hidden spire, but i saw that he was making roaches and double evo chamber http://drop.sc/198298 Thanks, but what I am having trouble with is the doom drop. No upgrades, just pure 200/200 roach ling drop into the main. Its fine if I scout it, but if it happens without me intercepting it I will lose all of my main, and most of my army if I they can take position above my ramp before I can react. | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On June 16 2012 00:32 Westy wrote: Thanks, but what I am having trouble with is the doom drop. No upgrades, just pure 200/200 roach ling drop into the main. Its fine if I scout it, but if it happens without me intercepting it I will lose all of my main, and most of my army if I they can take position above my ramp before I can react. well i have to say, that you HAVE to scout it, otherwise it can really do a lot of damage if you don t scout it s a mistake, and mistakes are punished in sc2 sorry, but that s all advice i can give to you | ||
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cvgHuShang
Canada95 Posts
On June 15 2012 23:06 Tassadarstarcraft2 wrote: so i sent my observer to him, then i checked his main first to see whether he has tech or anything, afterwards i saw that he was droning and not building units -->tech i counted his gas and still didn t see a tech from him so i went a gamble double stargate and continued scouting when i saw the spines and still noch tech i was 100%sure it was a hidden spire that s why i didn t cancel the stargates right, but you're not going to gamble every game with 2 stargates otherwise you'll lose to 3 base max roach on most maps. In the games i watched i felt like you just gambled in all of them :/... besides, i don't even think you should be getting an observer. I've been experimenting a lot since I last posted and it's WAY better to just skip the observer and get halucination. It's faster and it doesn't take up your immortal production time. In addition you can create like 1 collossi or 1 voidray to mess with your opponent ^^. | ||
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Masvidal
Korea (South)213 Posts
On June 04 2012 05:27 ChEDo wrote: Title seems misleading, I thought it was 1 base 4 gate robo expo so i was like O_O Good strategy, I do almost similar build and had great success with it :D I like how you point out the difficulty of it on certain On June 04 2012 05:30 ThePlayer33 wrote: 4 gate robo off 1 base sounds like something nshs-tassadar would do User was temp banned for this post. I'm pretty sure the second guy was responding to the guy who posted directly before him (the first quote), he just didn't quote; I'm sure he did read the OP and knew it wasn't a 1 base, he was just making a joke. The chronology is right, at least . . . | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
and even if you can wall off certain areas, building toomany gateways will hurt the number of units you have. If they hit you early its really hard to maintain constant production and avoid trading units. | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On June 16 2012 07:09 cvgHuShang wrote: right, but you're not going to gamble every game with 2 stargates otherwise you'll lose to 3 base max roach on most maps. In the games i watched i felt like you just gambled in all of them :/... besides, i don't even think you should be getting an observer. I've been experimenting a lot since I last posted and it's WAY better to just skip the observer and get halucination. It's faster and it doesn't take up your immortal production time. In addition you can create like 1 collossi or 1 voidray to mess with your opponent ^^. you didn t read what i wrote i saw him droning and having 6 gases, he just can t go mass roaches (would be roaches + 4 gases) | ||
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sru
Poland4 Posts
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On June 16 2012 20:45 sru wrote: What if he go hydra push? Like Tefel than you can scout it and react as usual this guide is just about securing the expansion, there is no hydra timing that can kill you at minute 7.30 everything later is a standart macro game and btw tefel opens with gas and 2 base with an 7 minute 3. base this guide is against gasless 3 base openings | ||
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cvgHuShang
Canada95 Posts
On June 16 2012 20:05 Tassadarstarcraft2 wrote: you didn t read what i wrote i saw him droning and having 6 gases, he just can t go mass roaches (would be roaches + 4 gases) I read what you wrote perfectly, it isn't however, an acturate statement of what happened in your game. I watched the replay specifically for your reaction to his muta's and there was no reaction. You blindly placed down two stargates. In fact, you're observer hadn't even seen that he had gotten lair before you started placing down stargates(according to your vision). What I'm saying is, if he had gone for stephano roach on 3 base, I don't see how you could have survived after wasting 300/300 on infastructure that you weren't going to use. Perhaps this is just a variation of how to open with this build and you create voidrays to deal with the roach pressure? I don't know, but I didn't see this type of transition in the other games so i can only assume that it was a coin flip. Don't tell me you saw his 6 gases and then realized it was spire. I haven't seen your guides before, but i'm not one to just assume you're correct. If you're not even scouting and reacting to what your opponents do and instead flipping a coin I don't see how we can take this guide seriously. Although, i'm sure you have a really good answer for what you did. You just haven't told us yet, right ? | ||
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CodECleaR
United States395 Posts
I don't think you read what he wrote perfectly. He's saying that he was suspicious (people can get suspicious feelings w/o scouting perfectly, that's how stephano plays--instinctual style), so he threw down 2x stargates and then when he knew for certain hidden spire, he didn't CANCEL them. If he saw something else he would have cancelled them and then it would have been 74/74 wasted, not 300/300. | ||
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cvgHuShang
Canada95 Posts
On June 17 2012 05:20 CodECleaR wrote: "that s why i didn t cancel the stargates" I don't think you read what he wrote perfectly. He's saying that he was suspicious (people can get suspicious feelings w/o scouting perfectly, that's how stephano plays--instinctual style), so he threw down 2x stargates and then when he knew for certain hidden spire, he didn't CANCEL them. If he saw something else he would have cancelled them and then it would have been 74/74 wasted, not 300/300. right, so he had intuition, so lets say he's making a 60% gamble instead of a 50% gamble. Either way he's not telling us what gave him this intuition, if he did which is what i would like to know about then it would make sense. As it is, throwing up 300/300 not 74/74... is resources not getting put into most importantly, sentries and immortals but also stalkers is a huge investment and there is no way that I see him holding a strong stephano roach type attack. Besides, this is a guide, telling us 'o, you should react on intuition if he's going muta or roach' isn't helping anyone. I can tell bronze players that they're bad as much as I want but until I show them what they are doing wrong and how to improve it isn't really going to help now is it? On top of this, there are infestor roach builds that will take 6 gasses, so I don't see how him scouting 6 gas tells him for sure that it is spire anyways not that he scouted that in the first place. edit: on your stephano point, you'll notice idra stating how bad of a teacher stephano is. 'the only way you can learn from stephano is by watching him'. I don't see how this point validates anything in his guide. | ||
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