EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 8
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On June 06 2012 02:42 bgalang92 wrote: Just got back from my physics final, I seem to have mistyped... Alt-Shift for create sounds hilariously uncomfortable. xD I meant CTRL+SHIFT for create and Alt for recall. I'm used to using Alt with the old Darkgrid/Jakatak cameras so that's what I meant. Ctrl+shift for create, alt for recall is fine for terran and protoss, but it doesn't work with the layered camera inject method of darkgrid, which is key. Since this layout is for random, we have to keep that in mind, but perhaps this will be a good solution for the terran and protoss race specific layouts. On June 06 2012 04:48 Fencer710 wrote: A quick question: Why isn't 8 being used for something but 7 is? TheCore RRM and TheCore RRM Mouse Use: Universal - halt SCV - build engineering bay universal - unload all probe - warp in forge probe - warp in fleet beacon drone - mutate into roach warren larva - morph to ultralisk universal - unburrow ghost - tac nuke strike overlord - stop generate creep sentry - summon 2 stalker hallucinations. You did download the file, correct? Or are you playing lefty? | ||
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Tzuborg
Norway171 Posts
On June 04 2012 07:36 Sickan wrote: I've adjusted the hotkeys for a Swedish/Nordic keyboard; theCore RRM Mouse Nordic.SC2Hotkeys (I changed Cancel from F5 to our ' aswell, the key the US-International keyboard doesn't have) My notes I made while adjusting: + Show Spoiler + Nordic http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/KB_Sweden.svg/800px-KB_Sweden.svg.png + = Equals ´ = BracketOpen å = BracketClose ¨ = SemiColon ö = Grave ä = Apostrophe ' = Slash , = Comma . = Period - = Minus US http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/KB_US-International.svg/800px-KB_US-International.svg.png + = Minus ´ = Equals å = BracketOpen ¨ = BracketClose ö = SemiColon ä = Apostrophe ' = N/A , = Comma . = Period - = Slash Changes in .SC2Hotkeys Minus = Equals Equals = BracketOpen BracketOpen = BracketClose BracketClose = SemiColon SemiColon = Grave Apostrophe = Apostrophe N/A = N/A Comma = Comma Period = Period Slash = Minus Thank you so much! Haven't had time to do it myself yet. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:48 Fencer710 wrote: A quick question: Why isn't 8 being used for something but 7 is? Wait what, for me 8 builds engineering bay. Do I have something set incorrectly in my hotkey setup then? | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:53 JaKaTaK wrote: Ctrl+shift for create, alt for recall is fine for terran and protoss, but it doesn't work with the layered camera inject method of darkgrid, which is key. Since this layout is for random, we have to keep that in mind, but perhaps this will be a good solution for the terran and protoss race specific layouts. TheCore RRM and TheCore RRM Mouse Use: Universal - halt SCV - build engineering bay universal - unload all probe - warp in forge probe - warp in fleet beacon drone - mutate into roach warren larva - morph to ultralisk universal - unburrow ghost - tac nuke strike overlord - stop generate creep sentry - summon 2 stalker hallucinations. You did download the file, correct? Or are you playing lefty? Oops, I didn't see anything on the key when I looked at the layout. Make it blue, maybe? All previous layout pictures I've seen have the grey keys un-used. Confuses me unfortunately. | ||
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
Ctrl+shift for create, alt for recall is fine for terran and protoss, but it doesn't work with the layered camera inject method of darkgrid, which is key. Since this layout is for random, we have to keep that in mind, but perhaps this will be a good solution for the terran and protoss race specific layouts. Ah I see how that can be problematic. I have a bit more input now that I've been practicing for the past few days (I can almost execute my normal PvT build order :DDDD) I've remapped cancel to backspace, I personally find it comfortable since I can anchor my pinky in "j" and reach over with my index. I've found the SALT Custom Game Maps perfect for practice so you can save and reload at a particular point in the replay (I restart the game to right after I build my first gateway, restart it after I hold the AIs 7ish minute push). I've removed all the keys at the edge of the layout to help minimize missing keys, but it also has a side benefit. The removal of the "b" and "g" key make the spacebar very easy to hit with my pinky as there is space for your pinky to "sink" into, so I use it for a camera save, creating it with Shift+Space. What it looks like with extra keys taken out. http://imgur.com/freHE,wkFCY#1 How I've been using space as a camera hotkey. http://imgur.com/freHE,wkFCY#0 Pinky knuckle hits spacebar. I find it comfortable, but its not for everyone. Hope some people find it useful! Thanks again Jak and Foxy, this layout is awesome. =D | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:40 Fencer710 wrote: Oops, I didn't see anything on the key when I looked at the layout. Make it blue, maybe? All previous layout pictures I've seen have the grey keys un-used. Confuses me unfortunately. Artwork is hella time consuming and I don't have the skills to do it myself. For now, I would suggest downloading the file and playing with it a bit to really get the feel for how it works. | ||
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marble-house
Canada15 Posts
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On June 06 2012 10:07 VanGarde wrote: I am curious, is there any specific reason why you don't use the same key for siege and unsiege, land and lift viking, cloak and decloak etc? I have always had them on the same key previously. It's because of when you have both landed and flying vikings or sieged and unsieged tanks selected that you would have to choose one, or waste time transforming twice, or have to tab between those two. It's just better. | ||
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uoeahtns
52 Posts
My opinion on the moment is that the hotkey setup is too ordered. Control groups on the right, Abilities on the left. While control groups are probably the more pressed of the two, that doesn't mean you can't put a few ability keys on the right that you can use with your strongest fingers. It would make more sense to put the most used abilities on easier-to-reach keys than the least used control groups. | ||
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xavra41
United States220 Posts
On June 06 2012 01:19 JaKaTaK wrote: I totally miscounted when I said 8-9. Sorry about that, I meant to say 7-8. In any case, I'll assume your question still stands with 7-8. I would like to see those replays too. If anyone (especially you dark grid users) would send some first person VODs my way demonstrating this, I would really appreciate it. (PM me). There will be a video detailing how using this many CGs is useful in the future, for now I'll try to rustle up the Darkgrid one for you :D Ctrl and shift are easier to press in TheCore than in standard. I don't see how you could think that shift could be in an easier position than right under your thumb, I think we're having a mis-communication somewhere. As for the spacebar. We moved the thumb from having 1-2keys to press, to 5. I don't see how this is a move that makes TheCore less efficient, but one that makes it more efficient. As far as cameras go, its faster to hit ctrl+shift+J in TheCore than it is to reach up to 1,2,3 on JaKaTaK Righty. We are looking at making the non-base locations (set with shift) A little closer. At least one of them. The issue is, that replay files do not contain the information about how many times a location key is set or recalled, they are all "Camera Movement Events" so we can't know the numbers on that. This makes it incredibly difficult to place the camera keys in their most efficient positions. I'm pretty sure we will be moving at least one camera to a closer location in place of an ability. After hitting a camera key, you will be either clicking, or pressing a control group (force fielding a ramp, setting a rally point, chronoboosting, spreading creep, etc...) To avoid repetitive finger use, which is inefficient, the camera keys are best hit with the pinky and ring fingers, meaning that they would have to take precedence over an ability, or over multiple abilities. (looking at Patrol right now). I absolutely hate going by feel, but in this case, I see no other option, unless of course we can find a way to analyze, en mass, how many times, on average, in a professional match, the location keys are set and recalled. Videos will be coming regarding shift-queuing construction. For now, refer to my previous post about how to do it. I am having a hard time understanding what many of you mean by your criticisms of this issue. It is possible to shift-queue building construction with this layout you just have to switch up the order of your button combinations. The issue is that the build keys must be hit in combination, and can't be put on the ability side of the layout because it will create many inefficient and uncomfortable button combinations. Any solutions to this problem would be greatly appreciated. There are 8 control groups for units in non mouse and 9 with mouse. That, in my opinion, is way too many. I just tuned in to 3 different pro streams right now and 2-4 is normal for lategame and that is not mentioning that the vast majority of your players wont even be in grandmasters let alone pro. I tried out both hotkey setups for a while and i strongly disagree that this is easier to press ctrl, tab/spacebar, alt and shift than any other hotkey setup. For example, if you use standard you have fingers resting on something like 1-3. With this position your finger is on top of ALL of those keys are the same time which is simply faster than moving your finger no matter how close. With the one i use where i rest on asdf i rest on everything except alt (which is a key only TheCore uses). Now with yours i have to use the thumb to switch between alt, ctrl, and shift AND i have to reach to ( - ) for tab which i use a lot in tab production. Each over these very important keys is less efficient and for what. As for the camera keys try out 7 - 0 as location keys and shift 7 - 0 as create location. you are going to clicking 95% of the time after hit a location key and you also dont move your hand (except for 7) so your pinky and ring are still in position. | ||
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OneBaseKing
Afghanistan412 Posts
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
On June 06 2012 12:56 xavra41 wrote: There are 8 control groups for units in non mouse and 9 with mouse. That, in my opinion, is way too many. I just tuned in to 3 different pro streams right now and 2-4 is normal for lategame and that is not mentioning that the vast majority of your players wont even be in grandmasters let alone pro. I tried out both hotkey setups for a while and i strongly disagree that this is easier to press ctrl, tab/spacebar, alt and shift than any other hotkey setup. For example, if you use standard you have fingers resting on something like 1-3. With this position your finger is on top of ALL of those keys are the same time which is simply faster than moving your finger no matter how close. With the one i use where i rest on asdf i rest on everything except alt (which is a key only TheCore uses). Now with yours i have to use the thumb to switch between alt, ctrl, and shift AND i have to reach to ( - ) for tab which i use a lot in tab production. Each over these very important keys is less efficient and for what. As for the camera keys try out 7 - 0 as location keys and shift 7 - 0 as create location. you are going to clicking 95% of the time after hit a location key and you also dont move your hand (except for 7) so your pinky and ring are still in position. These questions have been addressed over and over again... Just because pros don't do it doesn't mean it's not good. They just don't have the time to switch over to something like this. Just because Axslav plays with sub 100 apm and doesn't mean its the right way to do it. You're arguing that having MORE control is bad. That just doesn't make sense. Using the thumb instead of contorting your pinky to hit ctrl and shift is more ergonomic no matter how you try to argue it. Just watch your thumb hit shift and your pinky hit shift. It's obvious. I have to move my finger half an inch to hit "-" instead of tab, so minimal difference there. I don't really understand what you're saying about 7-0 camera locations. Doing that would require Jak and Foxy to rework entire layout and replace their already great camera system. It's also much less efficient then using keys your fingers already rest over. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
I'm just getting too frustrated but I'm trying to push through. Thanks for the Hotkey Settings, guys! | ||
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Dirichlet
21 Posts
Edit: saw the other post regarding this. I'm still wondering about the logic behind this | ||
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SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
On June 06 2012 22:13 Dirichlet wrote: So I've looked through this thread and I couldn't find an answer to this question, unless I missed it. Is anyone else having problems with alt bound as center on selection? I'm finding it impossible to set camera locations when alt is set like this since pressing alt + I, for example, will center on your selection before creating the camera location. Currently I have taken off that binding, but I was wondering about the reasoning behind it or if I am missing something. Edit: saw the other post regarding this. I'm still wondering about the logic behind this It is very helpful for Zerg when setting your base cameras, you want to have the hatch right in the middle of the screen so you can quickly go through your bases to inject without any misclicks. | ||
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asdir
Germany39 Posts
On June 06 2012 22:13 Dirichlet wrote: So I've looked through this thread and I couldn't find an answer to this question, unless I missed it. Is anyone else having problems with alt bound as center on selection? I'm finding it impossible to set camera locations when alt is set like this since pressing alt + I, for example, will center on your selection before creating the camera location. Currently I have taken off that binding, but I was wondering about the reasoning behind it or if I am missing something. Edit: saw the other post regarding this. I'm still wondering about the logic behind this If I understood it correctly the reasoning works like this: The camera selections that are set with the alt-key are for hatches/nexi/CCs or other buildings. So after putting down the building, select it via mouse. Alt+[camera key] let's you now easily position the camera such that the building is in the exact middle of the screen. This is very important for the layered-camera-inject-method. If you want to set camera locations independent of buildings, like for the ramp or XN-towers, you are supposed to use the other three camera-keys: "7", "=" or " ' " (for right-handed mouse-button users; see picture in OP). | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
How about moving it to K which is not used by the cc anymore once it is transformed into an orbital | ||
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KuBa
Poland98 Posts
I transitioned half a year ago to the darkgrid layout and after quite some time of constant practice and adjustment, I learned how to use it properly and I had quite a lot of fun and success with it, I love it! My question now is, is it really worth to transition to theCore from Darkgrid, as I know that FoxyMayhem and u joined forces, so to speak? | ||
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