EPTOn the other hand, you may want to wait until we're done beta testing, so you don't have to relearn any of our fixes.
[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 9
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
On the other hand, you may want to wait until we're done beta testing, so you don't have to relearn any of our fixes. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On June 06 2012 23:35 FoxyMayhem wrote: I absolutely think it is, unless you frequently use a laptop without an external keyboard or something else that restricts its use. All the improvements Darkgrid makes, this practically doubles. On the other hand, you may want to wait until we're done beta testing, so you don't have to relearn any of our fixes. I had this thought first as well, why not just wait until it is all done before I start relearning but then I figured, it is a drastic change as it is, and in my experience relearning more minor changes which might occur when the beta is over is way easier than doing all the ground work to learn this setup. I personally feel that even though it is beta it is worth learning it right now because then the small fixes will be really easy to add in anyway and you are already past all of the hard initial work. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On June 06 2012 12:03 uoeahtns wrote: If there were 1 or 2 keys on the right side of the setup that were for unit abilities, then this would solve the problem people are having with the thumb operating both the build key and the shift key. Build and advanced build could be on these keys, which could also be used for location hotkeys. My opinion on the moment is that the hotkey setup is too ordered. Control groups on the right, Abilities on the left. While control groups are probably the more pressed of the two, that doesn't mean you can't put a few ability keys on the right that you can use with your strongest fingers. It would make more sense to put the most used abilities on easier-to-reach keys than the least used control groups. The issue is, if you do this, you run into repetitive finger use, OL for instance are both hit by the same finger, this is slower than pressing OK. Also, you cannot use something for a camera key if its already being used for an ability. Also, the abilities are on easier to reach keys than the least used control groups. Take a look at the data document if you don't believe me. On June 06 2012 22:54 VanGarde wrote: One conclusion so far is that M for scan is really damn inconvenient. How about moving it to K which is not used by the cc anymore once it is transformed into an orbital Nice one. Well done :D On June 06 2012 23:09 KuBa wrote: I have a question, and I am really sorry if it has been asked before: I transitioned half a year ago to the darkgrid layout and after quite some time of constant practice and adjustment, I learned how to use it properly and I had quite a lot of fun and success with it, I love it! My question now is, is it really worth to transition to theCore from Darkgrid, as I know that FoxyMayhem and u joined forces, so to speak? Absolutely. And to be clear, FoxyMayhem and I did join forces. This was a 50/50 split, we spent a lot of time going back and forth, challenging each others assumptions and pushing the boundaries of creativity in layout engineering. It was exhausting, but I think i can speak for both of us when I say that neither one of us could have created this layout without the other. The big change is that darkgrid is based purely on intuition and principle, and this layout is based on numbers and data, with a great deal more emphasis on specificity. If darkgrid only needed slight modifications to be as efficient, we would have made those modifications and continued to call it darkgrid. The main advantages are the home position (which is the most efficient we could find out of all the ones we tested, and the fact that we based our decisions on data from professional players. We strongly suggest giving it a go. GL HF | ||
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ScoSteSal
United States54 Posts
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On June 07 2012 01:13 Fencer710 wrote: Any idea why you can't use spacebar for the layered camera hotkeys in some way? We could, but it would be slower than the cameras we have now. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On June 07 2012 01:23 JaKaTaK wrote: We could, but it would be slower than the cameras we have now. I dunno, it's impossible for me to easily press both alt and shift with my thumb at the moment, and I can't do it with my hand because I have to bend my knuckle inwards in order to do so, OR tuck in my thumb which is also not very comfortable or fast. Why I'm so anxious about this is because I personally set my rally cam over again a lot. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On June 07 2012 01:30 Fencer710 wrote: I dunno, it's impossible for me to easily press both alt and shift with my thumb at the moment, and I can't do it with my hand because I have to bend my knuckle inwards in order to do so, OR tuck in my thumb which is also not very comfortable or fast. Why I'm so anxious about this is because I personally set my rally cam over again a lot. Why would you have to press alt and shift at the same time? Is that what you are saying? Rally cam is set with shift+letter/number and recalled with that letter/number. Not with alt. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On June 07 2012 01:50 JaKaTaK wrote: Why would you have to press alt and shift at the same time? Is that what you are saying? Rally cam is set with shift+letter/number and recalled with that letter/number. Not with alt. ? When I used it cams were set with alt. >< sorry. | ||
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onewaystyx
Switzerland46 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On June 07 2012 02:26 Fencer710 wrote: ? When I used it cams were set with alt. >< sorry. The 5 base cams are set with alt. Shift is not necessary for setting these cams. The 3 free cams are set with Shift. Alt is not necessary for setting these cams. Sorry if that was unclear :D On June 07 2012 04:48 onewaystyx wrote: i didnt get to test it ingame yet so i have a couple of questions. Where is the "shift" key and is it truly worth learning this. WIl you really profit more than with the setup youre using at the moment? Yes you will. Even on the less efficient, older layout I made (JaKaTaK Righty) people reported easier playing and increased APM (as much as a 300% increase). | ||
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
Thoughts? | ||
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poeticEnnui
United States78 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On June 07 2012 06:23 bgalang92 wrote: I'm getting much better this setup and I've found somewhat of an issue now that I can make it past 10 minutes in game. I don't think the templar hotkey is assigned very well and I've switched it out with the "0" harass key atm. I've found it incredibly difficult to micro my army and my templar. I'm unsure if I'm using the correct finger for the templar and spells. My PvT midgame generally revolves around me dancing my zealot/sentry army back and forth, goading the terran forward into storm range. This is very difficult to do if my middle finger is jumping from 9 to L to control both groups. Using my index finger for L, it crams my hand together pretty bad if I want to keep my pinky on J and middle finger on 9, which i need to in case I need to fully engage. To comfortably control my main army and my templar while having access to storm and feedback, it requires me to remove my hand from the base position to re position my middle finger on I for storm and/or K for feedback. Thoughts? This is something we've been struggling with quite a bit. I see the issue here. I'll start working on solutions. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On June 07 2012 06:23 bgalang92 wrote: I'm getting much better this setup and I've found somewhat of an issue now that I can make it past 10 minutes in game. I don't think the templar hotkey is assigned very well and I've switched it out with the "0" harass key atm. I've found it incredibly difficult to micro my army and my templar. I'm unsure if I'm using the correct finger for the templar and spells. My PvT midgame generally revolves around me dancing my zealot/sentry army back and forth, goading the terran forward into storm range. This is very difficult to do if my middle finger is jumping from 9 to L to control both groups. Using my index finger for L, it crams my hand together pretty bad if I want to keep my pinky on J and middle finger on 9, which i need to in case I need to fully engage. To comfortably control my main army and my templar while having access to storm and feedback, it requires me to remove my hand from the base position to re position my middle finger on I for storm and/or K for feedback. Thoughts? Yarp I have the same issue from the other side of the matchup. Ghosts on L and bio on 9 feels a bit awkward. The thing is I cant tell if it is awkward because I am not used to it yet, or because it is actually awkward. I have tried moving ghosts to the key right of P, whatever that is on a US keyboard  | ||
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poeticEnnui
United States78 Posts
- the Drone/Overlord switch is a very good one; my accidental key presses due to spamming are both less detrimental or simply part of the intended build - it seems like a recurring theme is the "L" key being an uncomfortable one for caster units -- this is a bandwagon that I'll board, if only because it's awkward to reach down to L when you need to control your main army simultaneously. I use 8, 9, and [ as my "main army" hotkeys, analogous to the 1, 2, and 3 of the standard layout, where I end up putting Infestors. If those three hotkeys are used (let's say by muta/b/ling), I put Infestors on the ";" key because it's easy to reach with my pointer finger and I can micro them simultaneously with my main army groups (on 8 and 9). - "L," "]," and " ' " are great additional hotkeys, however, for Brood Lords and assorted extra units (catching drops, countering, flanking, etc). For the record, this is how I hotkey: 8 - Ultra/Zerglings OR Roach/Hydra 9 - Mutalisks/Corruptors OR Infestors [ - Banelings ] - drop catcher, run-by force (Zerglings, typically) L - Brood Lords ; and " - free lunch, for sticky situations that need additional hotkeys -- drops, burrowed banelings, etc. My army control is stil God-awful, but I've been sticking to that setup with limited success (high platinum/low diamond at the moment, climbing). | ||
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
I agree with the L key being difficult to use for casters. I posted earlier about my trouble with templars. | ||
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asdir
Germany39 Posts
I think the problem with casters on "L" for Zerg is that the main spell (fungal) is on "/". It forces middle finger and thumb to pinch together, which I think feels unnatural. I would propose testing casters on "9", so that when the middle finger stretches, the thumb is naturally drawn up a little as well and lands on "/". Hope that would help the other races too. At least that feels more natural to me... Edit: Mouse on right with 4th and 5th button | ||
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
I have 2 questions - Can we use this layout with an azerty keyboard ? - Do we have to remove the keys absolutly ? Or can we use this layout without destroying our keyboard ? Thanks again ! | ||
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