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Orgganon
Portugal28 Posts
does apm count for anything? (above 200ish) the debate around apm reminds-me a bit of when gearscore came out in wow... to those of you who know what i'm talking about, i always raided with lower GS than the minimum ppl needed (GS does not mean skill) this comes into play when i can spam all game and do nothing, so apm will be high... the whole point of the core is to reduce apm and raise "epm"(dunno if that's it), isn't it? | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On April 19 2013 03:50 thayneq wrote: Not to sound rude, but your ignorance is laughable. I'm truly notable. I just started playing SC2 this year and I can hold my own against diamond and some masters players, all thanks to TheCore's mechanics. I can't multitask at all, but that's just because I haven't learned and practiced. But my macro is top notch, as is my creep spread and injects, which goes a hell of a long way... The only thing separating me from being more notable is learning the build orders, scouting, multitasking, and the fact that I'm 31 and have a full time career and a VERY patient and loving girlfriend ;-) The final argument I will make is qwerty vs Dvorak. Are there really fast typists using qwerty? yes. definitely. Can they be made faster and more efficient by switching to Dvorak? Short term no. Long term, HELL yes. It's nigh impossible to argue that TheCore won't make you a better player, period. I can't wait to see someone win a tournament using this layout. it's just a matter of time..... Is it wrong to be skeptical of something that people claim to be amazingly good when no actual pro uses it? I'm so sorry for thinking this way. Full time career and best girlfriend in the world! Wow that is so cool, thx for letting me know that. Well if it's impossible to argue that TheCore won't make me better, then I guess I have to surrender! FYI I did look more into and The Core does seem good to me. I might give it a try. I'm concerned though, what happens if/when The Core is no longer supported? | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On April 19 2013 03:50 thayneq wrote: Not to sound rude, but your ignorance is laughable. I'm truly notable. I just started playing SC2 this year and I can hold my own against diamond and some masters players, all thanks to TheCore's mechanics. I can't multitask at all, but that's just because I haven't learned and practiced. But my macro is top notch, as is my creep spread and injects, which goes a hell of a long way... The only thing separating me from being more notable is learning the build orders, scouting, multitasking, and the fact that I'm 31 and have a full time career and a VERY patient and loving girlfriend ;-) The final argument I will make is qwerty vs Dvorak. Are there really fast typists using qwerty? yes. definitely. Can they be made faster and more efficient by switching to Dvorak? Short term no. Long term, HELL yes. It's nigh impossible to argue that TheCore won't make you a better player, period. I can't wait to see someone win a tournament using this layout. it's just a matter of time..... I'm a big fan of TheCore (I help with its development), but trying to claim that a) your macro is "top notch", b) you are what Thor.Rush was referring to when he said "truly notable", c) TheCore is the main reason why you can hold your own against diamond/masters players (which if true you should be in Platinum at least already), or d) the only thing separating you from being pro is having a different career and a girlfriend (woohoo, congrats brohan!), THAT is laughable. I was mid-Masters before switching to TheCore, and am mid-Masters now when playing with TheCore. It hasn't revolutionized my play. It's made me a little more efficient at certain tasks, and I definitely feel like a stronger player in some regards, but I'm not going to try to claim that my skill at SC2 comes from using TheCore. @Thor.Rush It's fine to wait and see if TheCore gets adopted by professional players. The more you have played with standard, the harder it will be to switch, and if you don't plan on playing another 1,000 games of SC2, I'm not convinced that it will be worth your while. | ||
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Snoodles
401 Posts
On April 18 2013 06:34 JDub wrote: Is it possible that you didn't download it correctly? Here's a direct link: Alpha TRM Dvorak That's weird, I also got the original from github, and it has the same name. No matter, this one works, it has everything bound except create/jump location 8, which I can do myself. Thanks. Time for another 25 rounds of multitasking trainer. BTW, I highly recommend it to you guys for practicing the core, it's what I used to get fluent, it's a custom map where you do your build order vs the AI, while on a separate island running a probe away from a zergling the entire game. Your minerals can never go above a certain limit, your macro energy can never get too high(injects, mules, chrono). You're very much forced to use camera locations, hotkeys, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qt4U66J.png) | ||
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Orgganon
Portugal28 Posts
try to intake the concept of layered cameras and ajusting it to your play was what i meant. it's way easier than it sounds. cause for me it's just: 4 fingers and 3 modifiers makes 12 buttons... simple! | ||
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Fritti
Netherlands52 Posts
Universal -> Load Larva -> Morph to Ultralisk | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On April 19 2013 05:38 Thor.Rush wrote: FYI I did look more into and The Core does seem good to me. I might give it a try. I'm concerned though, what happens if/when The Core is no longer supported? Well, TheCore will continue to work for HotS even without future support unless new abilities are added in patches. As such, for the rest of HotS up until LotV, the worst case would be having to make a few manual updates to your hotkey file. For the LotV release, all I can say is: 1) There is a definite possibility that TheCore will still be actively supported when LotV comes out, and you won't have to worry about taking care of adding support for all the new stuff that comes with LotV. This is the ideal case. 2) If Jak and company stop working on TheCore entirely, and this thread stops being active, all hope is not lost. There is an open source script for generating TheCore files on GitHub, which any community member with some basic programming knowledge could pick up and update to support LotV. I will be updating the documentation for it shortly (it recently underwent some major overhauls) 3) Worst case scenario, TheCore is abandoned and left to die, and nobody revives it when LotV comes out, and you have to do all of the set-up for the new stuff that comes with LotV. It's definitely possible, and would require some work on your part, but imo it isn't the end of the world, and playing with TheCore is well worth the risk. | ||
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Snoodles
401 Posts
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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Snoodles
401 Posts
Placing a barracks, factory, command center, starport, etc down: Holy shit that's fast. Once my thumb is in position, I feel like I'm merely clawing down to create the most common units and structures in a single motion. I'm convinced that there is no faster way to lay down a structure. Creating less common units like ghosts with the thumb is a neat new feature too. Certain abilities, like stim, snipe, and medivac boost are on the thumb now too. This makes sense, but will take getting used to. If you have the wrong control group selected, you will lift all your buildings instead of stimming! Widow mines are certainly a critical unit now, so it's good that they've been given the middle finger. New camera location procedure: tricky at first, but since you create a location only once and jump to the location more often, it makes sense that you jump with shift now. The more common action is less layered, whereas before it was ctrl-shift to jump. Faster, and when I get used to it, better. I feel that maynarding a group of workers from one mineral set to another is easier with shift. Shift-P, box workers, Shift-O, select mineral patch. I don't know how I feel about bunker on the ring finger, but that's just because I'm not used to using it. The new salvage key is perfect Stop command is now on the ring finger, 8. This should be more comfortable. I'm not too thrilled with the create tech lab button, mainly because it's been moved from a strong finger to a weak finger, downward pinky action. The lifting and building cancellation buttons are in much better places. My only worry is accidentally hitting the lift button :D A new feature that I love is that certain researched abilities are researched with the same key used to activate them. For me, cloaking is the [Z] key, or / on qwerty. Banshee cloak and ghost cloak are the same key. researching cloaking field from a starport reactor or ghost academy are also the same key. Very smart move, jak. Do you guys plan to bring back the MM(mouse button control group) layouts for 1.0? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N5SXP8W.png) I know that if you don't already use mouse buttons it may not matter to you, but I believe that having production on mouse buttons and main army on your pointer and index finger is way faster than cycling up and down the keyboard. I love how fast I can place down a barracks or a factory with the new layout, but the problem is that the build advanced key has replaced "tab to next subgroup", and "tab to next subgroup" has been moved to the mousebuttons. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jqwCudu.png) I've never needed to cycle back, so in a ways it's redundant to use two mousebuttons for something that used to take one. Also, let me explain the MM macro cycle: [P] Select army [H] a-move [mouse button] selects all production [j]create marine [/]tab to factory [I]hellion [/]tab to starport [I] medivac or viking or whatever [mouse button] select all CCs, upgrade structures [create scv] [tab through upgrades] [P] re-select main army All executed in the time it takes to move a quarter screenlength or so. Now, of course I can still set it up this way for myself, but I just think you shouldn't drop support for it. I'm hoping the response will be something more than just "get used it" | ||
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EntropyFails
81 Posts
One thing that I thought up while learning TheCore is that we should develop a basic set of Core Katas that people can practice to get over the initial frustration. This has personally helped me greatly in the past 3 day's that I've been training. Ultimately, we should make a custom map that facilitates this. For now, I'm posting Katas I develop to my blog... http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=408359 Let me know if you guys have thoughts or extra Katas that you feel would be useful! | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
It is very easy to move some CGs to the mouse and replace those CGs with next and previous subgroup Just 12 or so changes, shouldn't take more than a minute or two @EntropyFails Here's my Protoss Kata | ||
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Snoodles
401 Posts
On April 19 2013 07:26 EntropyFails wrote: The "what about support" thing is a red herring. It is a text file guys, you can update it yourself. Or just install python and generate it with the current tools. One thing that I thought up while learning TheCore is that we should develop a basic set of Core Katas that people can practice to get over the initial frustration. This has personally helped me greatly in the past 3 day's that I've been training. Ultimately, we should make a custom map that facilitates this. For now, I'm posting Katas I develop to my blog... http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=408359 Let me know if you guys have thoughts or extra Katas that you feel would be useful! I like using terms for logical fallacies too, but red herring doesn't apply here. Anyways, I know that I can edit keys myself, that's a patronizing response. I ask why support for MM was dropped because from page ONE jak proposes some radical changes to the way you macro. Getting used to "center on selection" is one example. Getting used to putting multiple different production facilities on one key and tabbing through them is another one. They're part of the essence of how the core works. I put my faith into all of the aforementioned for the better, now I ask why the core designers dropped that. Am I offending you by asking? | ||
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JamesMadison
United States7 Posts
Live Demo Screenshots if you're on mobile or something: http://i.imgur.com/HcHXcDKs.png http://i.imgur.com/kD6wqlqs.png (Can't use the tag yet, unfortunately.) The full scoop: Basically, this is not only my first post anywhere, ever, on anything StarCraft-related, but I'm brand new to StarCraft 2 itself as of the past week. My brother has been trying to get me to play for a while, and I wasn't that interested in the game, but when I saw The Core it clicked for me and I remembered how cool it is to be able to do anything that efficiently. (Yes, I'm a huge nerd.) But then I was super confused by all the out-of-date diagrams, and I realized what a huge hassle it must be to keep all that stuff in sync. I thought what you need is something a little more robust, that reads in the SC2Hotkeys file itself so the visualization exactly matches what's in the file. So that's what I made! This is obviously just a proof-of-concept at this point, and there's lots of stuff I want to do: Lots of missing icons and campaign commands and probably things that aren't in the right place. There isn't really support for different keyboards, and you can't upload your own hotkeys, it's just got the latest version of Alpha hardcoded in. But if I make any big changes to this I want to redo the way commands work so that you can actually practice keystrokes for control groups, buildings, and the like, maybe turn it into some kind of hotkey trainer? Maybe I should be able to rearrange the hotkeys and download the customized file right there? Maybe it should read replays and show keystrokes? I think with some work, this could become the best way to introduce new users to The Core. But it might be a solution searching for a problem, so before I waste any more time on it, I wanted to throw it out there and see what you all think. Seem like something that will be helpful for people? Is this better than the diagrams? What else do you think it needs to do? Maybe you just don't like it? Happy for any feedback at all (Tested in Firefox and Chrome, but Chrome runs smoother with all the transparency and what not. Code is up at https://github.com/cushman/thecorevisualizer, but I wouldn't look at it if I were you.) And while I've got your attention, Jak, I want to thank you on a personal level for everything you've done— I read that your mission is to get more people to play StarCraft, and with me, you have succeeded. Between The Core, The Staircase, and your own positive attitude, you've convinced me not only that I should be playing StarCraft, but that I should be helping more people to get into StarCraft as well. So, thanks for that, and thanks to everyone who's worked on The Core for being great | ||
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Snoodles
401 Posts
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
You are a goddamn hero. I didn't even get to read the post yet. I just clicked the link. Fucking amazing. There are some specifics that will need to be updated for 1.0 but holy shit, I can't tell you how happy I am that you've done this. PM'd you: Lets get working on a full version | ||
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EntropyFails
81 Posts
I'd love to get a tool for "testing building" etc. (ie randomly display a building, then give success if they click the right build hotkeys.) Also if you have a probe selected, it would be cool if it said "build basic"/"plyon" instead of "build basic"/"attack". But those are only minor nitpicks. This tool is awesome! @JaKaTaK Thanks for the video! This is a great example of an "integrated kata". I'll add it to my list of Katas as I grow them as I get more competent with TheCore. | ||
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Spaceboy
United Kingdom220 Posts
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umavfx
Sweden11 Posts
My first 4 post on anything at all, was made in this thread thanking everyone for all the great work. I am thrilled to post my 5 for you! Hoooray Best Niklas | ||
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