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On April 05 2013 15:05 teuthida wrote:
I've accidentally hit / when trying to build basic buildings a few times now, I may have to switch this and see how it feels...
When I switched the two around I still had an issue with the CC staying on ' so I switched that too. My setup now is BB on / and CC on / so I can double tap it to throw down a CC. Then ' is for advanced build with everything else the same. This I've found is the most comfortable.
On a side note, the only other thing that I just cannot get used to using is "Center on Selection" under Alt. I know that function has been around for a while and I hear it's very useful for Zergs, but for me it's really annoying since I'm changing my cameras around often and no matter how much I train myself, the camera still jumps around all crazy on me. Also, I set up all my base cams before I even put a base there, so it's pointless for me to use center on selection because the only time it comes into play is later in the game if I want to re-center something.
This might be blasphemy, but I've moved "Center on Selection" to space bar, which is very easy to hit with the butt of my hand in the event that I really need to still center on selection, but at least this won't have the screen jumping around on me unnecessarily when I set my cams. Not sure if this is a problem for anyone else.
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On April 06 2013 01:11 Fiziks wrote:
On a side note, the only other thing that I just cannot get used to using is "Center on Selection" under Alt. I know that function has been around for a while and I hear it's very useful for Zergs, but for me it's really annoying since I'm changing my cameras around often and no matter how much I train myself, the camera still jumps around all crazy on me. Also, I set up all my base cams before I even put a base there, so it's pointless for me to use center on selection because the only time it comes into play is later in the game if I want to re-center something.
This might be blasphemy, but I've moved "Center on Selection" to space bar, which is very easy to hit with the butt of my hand in the event that I really need to still center on selection, but at least this won't have the screen jumping around on me unnecessarily when I set my cams. Not sure if this is a problem for anyone else.
One thing you can do to pre-set cameras is to press alt -> centers on main CC -> set hotkey, then still holding alt click the mini map to your next camera position, next hotkey, etc. This may or may not be that convenient for you. I'm still getting used to using camera hotkeys in general  but the alt centering doesn't bug me too much now that I've gotten used to it. Also I think there are more free cams now in the Alpha? And those don't require alt.
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On April 06 2013 02:14 teuthida wrote:
press alt -> centers on main CC -> set hotkey, then still holding alt click the mini map to your next camera position, next hotkey, etc.
Yah. That's the method I use currently in 1.0. I read those instructions in the earlier comments, but I still think it's still rather inconvenient.
Example: I hit alt, camera goes to my main base, then I have to click on minimap to start setting other cams.I get maybe one or two bases in, but if I have to stop and macro for a sec or let go of alt for any reason and then hit alt again, camera goes back to my main base, then I have to go to the minimap again and reposition to the base I was already going to set, and then set the next camera finally. It's just really annoying for it to bounce around in the event that you have to let go of alt for any reason. Also, not sure if I'm not using "center on selection" properly, but I seriously maybe use that function once every 5 games, so for it to be in such a critical location is more of a hinderance than a benefit to me.
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On April 06 2013 02:55 Fiziks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 02:14 teuthida wrote:
press alt -> centers on main CC -> set hotkey, then still holding alt click the mini map to your next camera position, next hotkey, etc. Yah. That's the method I use currently in 1.0. I read those instructions in the earlier comments, but I still think it's still rather inconvenient. Example: I hit alt, camera goes to my main base, then I have to click on minimap to start setting other cams.I get maybe one or two bases in, but if I have to stop and macro for a sec or let go of alt for any reason and then hit alt again, camera goes back to my main base, then I have to go to the minimap again and reposition to the base I was already going to set, and then set the next camera finally. It's just really annoying for it to bounce around in the event that you have to let go of alt for any reason. Also, not sure if I'm not using "center on selection" properly, but I seriously maybe use that function once every 5 games, so for it to be in such a critical location is more of a hinderance than a benefit to me.
It's not really in a "critical location", the only thing alt is used for is set camera, and it's intentionally set there so that you can easily set your camera locations to be centered on buildings. The idea is that the layered cameras are for base cams, and if you want to set cameras elsewhere not centered on a base, then you can use the 2 free cams. When are you finding yourself resetting your cameras throughout the game?
In this situation: "I get maybe one or two bases in, but if I have to stop and macro for a sec or let go of alt for any reason and then hit alt again, camera goes back to my main base, then I have to go to the minimap again and reposition to the base I was already going to set, and then set the next camera finally", you could reorder your actions slightly to get rid of this problem.
E.g. Let's say you have to macro (build scv) and you only have time to set 2 base cameras in between scvs.
1) Build scv.
2) Hold alt, click minimap, set camera.
3) Click minimap, set camera #2
4) Repeat steps 1-3 as needed.
Basically, the action you take after clicking on the minimap to set a camera while holding alt should be setting the camera. You can't do in this order:
1) Hold alt, click minimap
2) Build scv.
3) Set camera
But that ideally shouldn't matter, since that order should not be necessary ever.
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On April 06 2013 00:35 Ninjury_J wrote:
Ahh ok. The beauty of the new cancel button (which I at least did not forsee) is that it is a) decently close, and b) on the CG side. This means that all cancelable functions (which I can think of) are easily combined with the cancel button. This is true only for zerg, I think. Protoss and and Terran have on ability on the index finger.
Your setup is perfectly valid if that is your preference. I was asking because I think extractor can be put on /Z, since it does not require being added to a CG. This would only be the case if shift building them is never better than holding the button. Currently, I still believe holding the button is more optimal, especially if it allows each building (after crawlers) to gain more priority.
I have already swapped extractors to / in my setup actually. i believe this is where im at
o hatch
i spore
j crawl
k pool
8 warren
/ extract
u bane
h evo
This again is designed around the principle of not moving my fingers from home position, no key should be more than 1 away, and avoid curling under my hand as much as possible(which is why i detest m and ','.
/edit 8 is acceptable even though its a bit awkward because in order to hit it, my pinky has to follow my hand up to it and subsequently back down onto the home keys.
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Usually, my layered cams are set as (P) Main Base, (O) Production location, (0) natural, (9) main rally point, ; for 3rd, and L 4th. This way all of my bases are under my forefinger (except my 4th) and other important locations are under middle finger.
The reason I use O for the location where I build my production facilities is because it makes it a lot faster to hit P, grab SCV, hit O, lay down building, P send SCV back to mine. Then 9 works super well with O because if any of my rally points get messed up or I forget to set one, I hit O, grab stragglers, hit 9 go to main rally point and it's all under one finger. Free cams I usually set for where I'm going to be aggressive, maybe a forward rally point, harassment locations, drops, enemy mineral line, enemy ramp, enemy 3rd, etc. etc.
I guess I could be using the cams entirely wrong, so if you've got a few tips that would make this better, I'd love to keep trying stuff out. But after experimenting and trying different methods for a while, this is what I've come to conclude as most efficient for me playing as Terran. I think if I were playing as Z or P, it would definitely be different. This method is also why I end up changing the camera locations at some point during the game. If my main gets full of production buildings, I'll move O to a new location and same goes for 9.
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Just checking in. Putting spine crawler and build basic on the same key is kind of magical. Try it out and you will see
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@Ninjury and the shift queue adventures: Although the tiny difference in time spent doing either method is not significant, I find Shift queue to be easier in combination to press. Since shift is right under your thumb, you're not really doing:
1. build
2. building
3. shift
4. building
5. shift
but are really doing:
1. build
2. building & shift
3. building & shift
...because pressing the combination of building and shift is extremely quick.
At the end of the day, though, that comes down to pure preference.
@Jak: Is it possible for you to manage some form of changelog when you change stuff throughout the core? It's really hard to follow what has changed unless you read the whole thing twice over! It would be nice if you could at least copy/paste the Google doc's version history somewhere! I gather it's not possible to open of the changelog of google docs to anonymous viewers!
And I see you're changing ZXX right now. I hope you're staying away from meta-game specific optimizations, since that might change at any point.
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@Fiziks
I don't think that your method for using the camera locations is bad at all, it's just different than intended. If you are going to use them like that, then I would highly recommend switching center on selection away from alt (I believe as you have already done).
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As a terran I'm finding it uncomfortable to use my pinkey to attack-move, stop, and patrol when splitting and handling a deathball. I kind of wish these movement commands were on the same keys as the spells, but I guess that's a tricky balance. For example, vs protoss I have to split, ctrl group vikings and shift-click them on collosus, ghost group and cast emp, then bio hotkey and stim/split. Is anyone else having trouble with this? It's mainly in the splitting action that I lose my home position and miskey because I prefer stop-key stutter-step to a-move stutter step(1 click and 1 keypress vs 1 keypress and 2 clicks) I think thecore needs to pay a little more attention on this, since right now the main focus seems to be on shaving milliseconds off of macro actions.
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@Snoodles
Thanks for the feedback. But I would stay away from making guesses about what we're focusing on.
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So is the terran layout pretty much stable at this point?
I want to practice, but I don't want to learn stuff that's going to change. I mentioned earlier that I'm going to learn both TRM and ZRM. Seems like the Zerg layout has a lot of suggested changes, so I'm going to hold off on playing Zerg until things are finalized.
If TRM is stable, I'll start practicing that, but I don't want to be wasting my effort learning something I'll be unlearning tomorrow.
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The alpha is called the alpha because it is not stable. When it is stable, we'll push it out to beta.
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@Feng,
You're right.The shift method is the only one that works. Holding the button doesn't work unfortunately anyways.
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On April 06 2013 05:00 JaKaTaK wrote:
@Snoodles
Thanks for the feedback. But I would stay away from making guesses about what we're focusing on.
Wasn't blaming the developers, you guys are doing great. I just see a lot of discussion on the fastest way to inject or spread creeps or queue multiple buildings as protoss. I'm just adding micro talk to the discussion.
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On April 06 2013 05:03 JaKaTaK wrote:
The alpha is called the alpha because it is not stable. When it is stable, we'll push it out to beta.
Let me re-phrase my question:
Are there currently any changes being considered to the 1.0 TRM layout (excluding changes to "suggested use of control groups", as that wouldn't change the hotkey file itself).
I don't mean to pester, I'm just saying that I don't see all that much discussion over the T or P layouts. I know it's the alpha and still might change, but from the topic it doesn't look like it will change as much as the Zerg layout.
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I have no idea how much any of the versions will change. I thought I'd have 1.0 out 213 posts ago, (but deep down I knew it would never happen). People come up with good ideas a lot, and I don't know when the next one will come in.
To answer your question specifically: Right now (literally this instant) I'm double checking the repetitive strokes for buildings as well as the overall use of Z/ I have no idea if this will result in changes or not.
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I wanted to try the alpha azerty TRM version of the core, but since then, I can't even select anything ingame with my left mouse button. I encountered the same issue on the qwerty TRM.
Do you have any idea where this could come from ?
Thanks for the great work, this layout's really feeling better and better as I get used to it !
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@anti
I don't know why that is happening. Anyone else experiencing the same issue?
@everyone
Just got done with a rework to the Zerg layouts that is updated on the github.
Also revamped all of the suggested CGs. Please remember that these are our general suggestions. We don't know of "the best" way to use your control groups. This section should be used as a good place to start for those who don't want to build up their setup from scratch.
Thanks everyone for the help on the alpha test. Should be able to rid ourselves from that pesky "you have hotkey conflicts" error soon
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OK my bad, I made a mistake while saving the layout from github, some <html> tags where messing up in the .SC2HOTKEYS file...
Let's see those new features, time to start to use those mouse key buttons
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EPT
