EPTI really think that you have the prefect death-ball army there (and i mean really death ball. Zealot-stalker-coloss is just jokes, compared to this)
Well maybe keeping your colo count down to 6-7 and getting more archon.
IT'S BEAUTIFUL!!
[D] PvZ - Establishing third with Skytoss (viable?) - Page…
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
I really think that you have the prefect death-ball army there (and i mean really death ball. Zealot-stalker-coloss is just jokes, compared to this) Well maybe keeping your colo count down to 6-7 and getting more archon. IT'S BEAUTIFUL!! | ||
|
Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
On June 25 2012 22:13 Fogetaboudit wrote: I think colossi first is better than storm, you will be guaranteed to shred a few infestors each time there is an engagement, and you can always recall after enough fungals drain your shields. come at me bro! + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ziStB.jpg) I know I have too many colossi here but there is no way this army is losing to infestors, LOL. That's a beautiful army ! But the reason I don't go with this kind of army is upgrades. How the hell can you afford upgrades for both ground and air ? I get 3/3 air as fast as I can, and even then I'm maxed pretty late. Edit: huh, that army is like 150 pop, and there's not even a mothership. Don't you have 70+ probes ? Or did you sac your probes as it was an hour long game ? If so then it's not very representative of the army you can have in the mid/late game.. | ||
|
Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
I think attacking with your mothership makes your attack way stronger but it also makes it way more "all-in" I do however think colossus are strong but you cant get this many or else you will just get run over by corrupter. Also just played a CRAZY base trade game vs muta/ling on that new huge map. He did really well to not let me ever engage his 40 mutas, but having 200 mana on your MS is great in this scenario. I was able to finally vortex the huge mutaball and then recall all of my army that was counterattacking his expansions to finally force a decisive fight. Sick game, mannered guy too. I'm also interested in creating a 3 base all in or 2 base all in with the same looking build order to keep zergs honest who try and metagame you hardcore. Ideas? | ||
|
esaul17
Canada547 Posts
Edit: Okay, unit tested it, mutas lose pretty bad. | ||
|
Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On June 25 2012 22:13 Fogetaboudit wrote: come at me bro! + Show Spoiler + I know I have too many colossi here but there is no way this army is losing to infestors, LOL. this type of army comp is so stupid to deal because there is litterally nothing zerg can do to beat it once its made. ive went through every possible unit comp for zerg in my head AND in game and i cant find a way to beat it. im on the virge of thinking its not even possible to beat and destiny seems to share the same opinion. im not saying its OP, but its OP On June 26 2012 00:19 Nyast wrote: That's a beautiful army ! But the reason I don't go with this kind of army is upgrades. How the hell can you afford upgrades for both ground and air ? I get 3/3 air as fast as I can, and even then I'm maxed pretty late. Edit: huh, that army is like 150 pop, and there's not even a mothership. Don't you have 70+ probes ? Or did you sac your probes as it was an hour long game ? If so then it's not very representative of the army you can have in the mid/late game.. more than likely he saced probes. usually when a toss is going for mass air they will always throw away probes, which is a good indicator he is freeing up more supply for more death in his ball. also he dont need that many colo, just enough to make sure all of zergs ground to air units are useless, like infestors/hydras, and hydras are useless to begin with... all that being said the best way to deal with this comp that ive found is to just not let toss get there. this is why so many ppl use early roach ling aggression builds like stephanos build. late game toss is just absurd. | ||
|
HoMM
Estonia635 Posts
On June 26 2012 21:24 Ballistixz wrote: this type of army comp is so stupid to deal because there is litterally nothing zerg can do to beat it once its made. ive went through every possible unit comp for zerg in my head AND in game and i cant find a way to beat it. im on the virge of thinking its not even possible to beat and destiny seems to share the same opinion. im not saying its OP, but its OP Max mostly on 3-3 corruptors, keep infestors in the back and safe until colossi are dead or out of posi to defend the air units, if the toss really had enough voidrays to kill your corruptors then you should just remax on corruptors asap. Make sure you have every base you could possibly get to mine gas from, if you really are floating huge amounts of money you know you'll never spend u can even throw in some spore crawlers in addition to the spine wall zergs usually make. You just have to scout that the toss is doing this, be on top of your upgrades, and be at least equal basecounts with the toss. | ||
|
Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
On June 26 2012 21:24 Ballistixz wrote: this type of army comp is so stupid to deal because there is litterally nothing zerg can do to beat it once its made. ive went through every possible unit comp for zerg in my head AND in game and i cant find a way to beat it. im on the virge of thinking its not even possible to beat and destiny seems to share the same opinion. That's not completely true. A maxed corruptors army will get ride of all voidrays, carriers and colossi, and a quick remax into roaches or broodlords will kill the archons/templars. What you can't afford to do as Zerg is under-commit into corruptors. Infestors and hydras will drop like flies to colossi/templars, while the remaining corruptors won't be in enough numbers to kill everything. So the solution is a 200/200 of corruptors into something else for the killing blow. But you have to be careful with the mothership/vortex, spread/split your corruptors and attack from multiple sides, and I believe Zerg could win. | ||
|
Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
On June 26 2012 23:49 Nyast wrote: That's not completely true. A maxed corruptors army will get ride of all voidrays, carriers and colossi, and a quick remax into roaches or broodlords will kill the archons/templars. What you can't afford to do as Zerg is under-commit into corruptors. Infestors and hydras will drop like flies to colossi/templars, while the remaining corruptors won't be in enough numbers to kill everything. So the solution is a 200/200 of corruptors into something else for the killing blow. But you have to be careful with the mothership/vortex, spread/split your corruptors and attack from multiple sides, and I believe Zerg could win. I don't think it's likely that approx 65 corrupters can handle a toss army that has a lot of voids backed up by archons and storm. The battles I've done and seen in replays are ridiculously one-sided in favor of the toss; they usually only lose approx 30 supply. Throw vortex into the mix and it gets even harder for the Zerg. Furthermore at that point remember than the toss will have many gates, so they'll be able to make up 30 supply or more very quickly. They will not, however, be able to quickly replace Carriers or Collosus. Void Rays come out a little later than hyrdas with chrono, but typically only 6 at a time, as opposed to 40+ of whatever the Zerg wants. The issue is how much army the Zerg can kill. I don't think the Zerg can put a big enough dent into the protoss death ball for a quick re-max to make a difference. | ||
|
Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
I mean, I agree there are no real hard counters which is why I like this playstyle so much. At my level I feel like whether or not I win depends on my level of execution. | ||
|
Xaldarian
Netherlands65 Posts
| ||
|
ineversmile
United States583 Posts
| ||
|
quillian
United States318 Posts
| ||
|
Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On June 26 2012 23:49 Nyast wrote: That's not completely true. A maxed corruptors army will get ride of all voidrays, carriers and colossi, and a quick remax into roaches or broodlords will kill the archons/templars. What you can't afford to do as Zerg is under-commit into corruptors. Infestors and hydras will drop like flies to colossi/templars, while the remaining corruptors won't be in enough numbers to kill everything. So the solution is a 200/200 of corruptors into something else for the killing blow. But you have to be careful with the mothership/vortex, spread/split your corruptors and attack from multiple sides, and I believe Zerg could win. corruptors are entirely useless especially if u max on them. if u get even a few good storms on the corruptors or if they get archon toileted ur dead, and nvm the fact that 3-3 toss army can brute force a 3-3 corruptor army just by A-moving because of how insanely high the DPS of 3-3 carriers and voids are. ive tried it before and max corruptors are just so bad. if u are making that kind of army u are basically praying that the toss does not know how to use storm and vortex. also splitting corruptors doesnt work. it just makes it easier to pick them off tbh. corruptors work best in a large group and there DPS is surprisingly low when split off into smaller groups when trying to take up that kind of army. i dont know how to explain it correctly but ya... | ||
|
Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
http://drop.sc/208638 http://drop.sc/208637 Hope you can help!  | ||
|
trbot
Canada142 Posts
On June 26 2012 23:49 Nyast wrote: That's not completely true. A maxed corruptors army will get ride of all voidrays, carriers and colossi, and a quick remax into roaches or broodlords will kill the archons/templars. What you can't afford to do as Zerg is under-commit into corruptors. Infestors and hydras will drop like flies to colossi/templars, while the remaining corruptors won't be in enough numbers to kill everything. So the solution is a 200/200 of corruptors into something else for the killing blow. But you have to be careful with the mothership/vortex, spread/split your corruptors and attack from multiple sides, and I believe Zerg could win. No, this isn't true at all... A maxed corruptor army dies extremely quickly to this. I've faced the ~55-65 corruptor armies many times and just roflstomped them with very little losses. As long as you have -half- as many voids as he has corruptors, and you get off 1 storm, you win easily. I even posted a replay in my earlier post where I clashed with a zerg who was max-corruptor. I was carrier heavy, and I still killed all 56 corruptors, losing only 20 supply. This was -without- storm or any archons, lol... | ||
|
bananafone
68 Posts
Game 1: 1) More (static) defense at natural 2) Split up your void rays Game 2: 1) Same as game 1 2) Can't understate the importance of upgrades against hydras. The difference is MASSIVE. 3) Might want to rebuild a couple of senties to hold ramp. At least on that map. You should really try and get some ht's out. This is made difficult in your position because you fail to defend your third, but for future reference. | ||
|
HelioSeven
United States193 Posts
On June 27 2012 04:52 quillian wrote: wtf when did this become a macro nexus build? Are you guys actually incorporating a nexus wall-in to your normal build and having success? What is the order? I do it in conjunction with the fast mothership build, it seems to work pretty well. The third is a bit delayed, but still quite fast, and mothership with a few void rays should be able to hold any kind of bust the Zerg can attempt on hatch tech. It makes your walls much safer against banelings on maps with wide natural ramps (though a single sentry is still always nice), and the additional chrono pays off in spades in the mid-game. Since you are turtling hard for fast tech anyway, it kinda makes sense. | ||
|
Tera.hk
Hong Kong1 Post
+ Show Spoiler + With 3 hatch opening, my response after scouting double stargate at around 7:30 (maybe with an unusual amount of cannons?) is basically: -Stop any roach production, maybe only 2 or 3 preparing for potential random zealot harass. Mass roach is never a proper response for this, as you just never have a chance against a cannoned simcity of protoss, with voidrays and even a few force fields. -12~16 speedlings (later 20+), also for zealots and more importantly denine protoss getting extremely fast 3rd -Grab 5th and 6th gas and 4th expand, (in contrast to standard stephano style's 4 gas and macro hatch), DRONE LIKE A MAD MAN. You need good economy for late game. You will eventually need a 5th macro hatch, and keep expand like madman in mid game for gases -Extra queens, may be 6 or 7 in total. Also at least 1 spore for each base to give you more reaction time. -Spire, not hydras, not infestors. You need to be aggressive (while macroing hard), and hydras or infestors just sucks off creep. They also need to much time to wait until reliable (in numbers for hydras, and energy for infestors) so just no hydras or infestors, at least in early-mid game. -Double evo chamber for melee and carapace. Lings will be your mineral dump in the mid-late game, and broodlord is the only proper siege against cannons. Also get burrow, as a single burrowed ling block for expand is just as annoying as a pylon block from protoss Since you will need some extra upgrades and need to build lots of units when the spire is finished, you need so much gas and a double spire at the very beginning may not always be a good idea, but you will eventually need that if the protoss player is going to fully commited in skytoss When your spire is up, make a mixed units of both mutas and corrupters. For some reason I would prefer corrupters over mutas, as mutas just sucks against phoenixes and also "not that good" against large number of voidrays, while corrupters is "not that bad" against both, you have to make mutas to force your opponent to create phoenixes or else those gases will eventually be used for voidrays or carriers that are much harder to due with, and you need corrupters to protect your mutas. There are 2 important things to play with this kind of protoss: -Force engage to trade voidrays, even under cannons. You just need to lower his void ray count before it is like 80 supply+ and become impossible to hold. I think that it will be an acceptable trade if you can do it in like 1.5(or even like 1.8) : 1 in supply count. It is fine, since you should (and NEEDED) to have more gases, smaller army favors you. -Active lings runby, mainly for denining the 3rd, but also needed for protoss's upcoming expands. Unless protoss just extends their cannon wall along the way from their bases, they need to create extra ground units to defend their new bases until the new cannon and simcity is up. I don't think it is a good idea for a protoss to try cleaning swarms of lings with voidrays. Carriers do better, but anyway it may not be an ideal situation for protoss to leave their air units in open areas for trade without good cannon support. For this, zerg need a very good macro to flood zerglings, a lot of zerglings cause you will eventually have an insane amount of minerals. If any of these fails, then it is already a GG. It is just hard to fight a protoss with 4 bases. It is even harder to fight a protoss with like 150 supply for this style. Zerg needs at least 5~7 bases to be in good position even if protoss didn't get an ultra fast 3rd and 4th, or with a super huge air army. Late game is like spine walls defending ground transition / infestor defending air / air unit chasing anywhere / random lings swarming / broodlord sieging or whatever Lots of apm is needed though. Indeed playing against cannoned sky-toss as zerg isn't a easy task, but for the reason of how long the game could be and how frustrating you have to macro that hard for lings =( At least in my level I would say the game would be quite even with this. | ||
|
ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On June 27 2012 04:52 quillian wrote: wtf when did this become a macro nexus build? Are you guys actually incorporating a nexus wall-in to your normal build and having success? What is the order? Forgetaboutit posted a VOD of him getting hatch blocked on Ohana and then responding by doing a Macro nexus. He's done it a few times now, and I took a more in-depth look into whether or not it would be possible to just go 2base 3 nexus for the sake of probe production (to race triple hatch) as well as chronoboost. I don't know how to make a build order work if you don't FFE and get hatch-blocked, because if the Zerg is actually just building stuff at home (whether it's attacking units or expansions+drones or tech), then investing 800 minerals into back-to-back or near back-to-back nexi is just suicide. However, the upside is you can do things like build your macro nexus as part of the wall-off to deal with aggression from 10-pools and later, then build your natural after your gate or core. I have some pics of wall-offs using a macro nexus on previous pages, but I haven't yet figured out a viable adaptation of the FFE to use it. That's why right now I'm trying it in the context of a 1gate or 2gate Sentry expand, where I add it as part of a later wall-off to catch up on the worker count because I'm not planning to add on a bunch of gateways and I have the minerals to spend. In theory, a Nexus provides 10 supply, so it's functionally 1.25 pylons and that makes the cost of a macro nexus closer to 275--for something that produces probes and chronoboost, as well as a potential giant tank for your wall-off and a place to build the mothership. According to Liquipedia, each nexus will produce 25 energy (one chronoboost) every 45 in-game seconds. So you're slightly augmenting your production with the extra boost production from a third nexus--but this is really important when you're boosting things with long build times, like Mothership or Carriers. It also leads to timings off of large gateway attacks where you warp in 8+ units, boost all of the gates, warp them in 10 seconds earlier than a wave normally would, rinse and repeat. A macro Nexus does not seem to be as cost efficient as adding even one Gateway for the sake of production based upon chrono boost, but if you're also using it to probe your face off or to continue probe production while building a mothership, it might be worthwhile. For a build like skytoss where you're sitting on a ton of minerals and you could use a sink for them, I think a macro nexus has some real potential. As far as taking over the thread is concerned...I don't think that's really the case. It is a very good way to rush straight to mothership off of 2 bases because of the chronoboost, and you can keep up with drones very well against 3hatch, but the cost may not be worthwhile. How much information is out there on a macro nexus, though? Not much. That's why it's worth trying out and analyzing and discussing, in my opinion. | ||
|
JayIsImbA
Germany54 Posts
| ||
| ||
