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On November 11 2011 07:32 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
I think one of the biggest threats and something that should have a guide for response is
Reactor hellions from the terran.
I would imagine blocking your ramp with 2 stalkers and keeping probes in main until you can better secure the natural would be the answer
This is the only way I've ever cracked and beat a nexus first. A random nice korean guy showed me on KR, a 3 rax 1 fac reactor hellion marine stim scv all in. I've tried it about 5 times, and if I hit the right swap timings, I haven't lost with it yet. The issue lies in scouting. Opening reactor hellion against protoss every game is a steep road to climb that pidegon holes you into a rouuuuugh mid game in my mind.
But... I haaaaaate nexus first and always tragically fail unless I do that all in.
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On November 11 2011 07:45 Fuhrmaaj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 09:45 BADSMCGEE wrote:YOU MUST PREVENT THE BUNKER FROM FINISHING AT ALL COSTS. The sooner you scout it constructing, the more time you have to stop it and the easier the defense is. A good example of the method in which to stop this can be found at 3:30 of this vod. http://www.twitch.tv/axslav/b/299362513 This link doesn't work anymore. I think it's safe to say that any twitch.tv link will probably stop working after a certain period. Maybe you could record it and reupload? Or get replays so we can see? Good guide, nice build
i'll get the replays ASAP. did not anticipate this problem guys sorry
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I really like this, I think the 15 nex 15 gate actually comes out with really good timing cues and feels pretty intuitive. I found that 2 probe scouts handles a lot of situations that are a danger to this opener. It seems there are a lot of miscues possible for the Terran compared to the Protoss in early game, one of them (which is really good for now) is responding aggressively to super early nexus but having it be inefficient or have some degree of indecision.
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On November 11 2011 07:32 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
I think one of the biggest threats and something that should have a guide for response is
Reactor hellions from the terran.
I would imagine blocking your ramp with 2 stalkers and keeping probes in main until you can better secure the natural would be the answer
This would be my biggest concern as well. Especially on a map like TDA.
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After practising this build against a friend a few times, marine/scv all-ins seem to be the biggest pains in the arse to hold off - especially when he manages to deny scouting or bluffs a no-gas expo. If I don't catch the marines moving across the map with my two stalkers so I can kite them all the way to my base, I seem to simply lose too many workers in the defence which puts me unfeasibly behind, even if I end up holding it off.
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Debo has a pretty good build that destroys nexus first / 1 gate expo
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but can nexus first hold vs a 2-rax + PF rush?
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Great guide! I'll give this a try. It almost reminds me of how IdrA used to tell zergs to play ZvT; "always 16hatch and learn to hold the bunker rushes, eventually it'll pay off once you get good at scouting/holding them"
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I will be interested to try this, i think one of the problems with my play is that when i do the initial push and find that my opponent has done this too me, im forced to just keep attacking when i fail because i know im behind in econ.
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Been playing around wiht this and it's awesome. Thanks a lot you opened my eyes :D
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I've been trying this (on korean server, matching mainly vs diamond/low master) - and the issue im having so far is with 3rax mass marine/scv allins.. If they hit right before my collosus or storm timing, my gateway units just melt in seconds unless I hit PERFECT forcefields..
It'll take some tweaking for me I guess, but it sure works great vs everything else, or if they dont bring scvs its easy to stop.. just with scvs its a nightmare
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Stevo, you the man! This guide helped me so much and ive been doing nexus first since reading this. My winrate is surprisingly good against terran! I'm high masters league and this build is all around good! This really does work! Stevo, i love you!
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Do we have to have all that god mucking up the bottom of the OP?
Otherwise thanks a lot for putting this together. I have tried to do some of the same analysis of this build as well and this will help.
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On November 11 2011 11:19 Keilah wrote:
but can nexus first hold vs a 2-rax + PF rush?
nobody ever takes this seriously, but try it... on maps where you can't FF them out of your natural, the PF + 2rax will kill your expo
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On November 14 2011 08:11 Keilah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 11:19 Keilah wrote:
but can nexus first hold vs a 2-rax + PF rush? nobody ever takes this seriously, but try it... on maps where you can't FF them out of your natural, the PF + 2rax will kill your expo
the reason nobody takes it seriously is because the nexus first is only weaker than 1/3 gate expo during an EXTREMELY small timing window. Time is a resource in sc2. Even with terran spending all of his money on units to punish your econ at the reactor 2 rax timing, nexus first still crushes it because the window where it is difficult is earlier. waiting longer, spending less money on units and more on an EBAY and CC in the NAT makes it almost laughable. plus, the amount of time it takes for the CC to build and morph into a PF is sacrificing in the "TIME" category alot...it's giving protoss light years to react and chrono out troops.
I also realize only .01% of people that play sc2 play the same game i do, so if this works at your level, by all means get whatever wins you can with it!
thanks for reading the guide! =D
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Tried this a few times on ladder, So far I've been all in'd every game. marine scv, Maraine/marauder scv. Or even a marauder/marine pressure timing. One guy built a PF at the gold on Metal.
Not sure how to deal with it =\
Will keep trying.
I find that if they expand I'm in great shape though.
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On November 16 2011 12:57 Vlare wrote:
Tried this a few times on ladder, So far I've been all in'd every game. marine scv, Maraine/marauder scv. Or even a marauder/marine pressure timing. One guy built a PF at the gold on Metal.
Not sure how to deal with it =\
Will keep trying.
I find that if they expand I'm in great shape though.
You can hold it all but you absolutely need brilliant control or you'll die. Get a practice partner to rush you over and over.
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On November 16 2011 13:05 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:57 Vlare wrote:
Tried this a few times on ladder, So far I've been all in'd every game. marine scv, Maraine/marauder scv. Or even a marauder/marine pressure timing. One guy built a PF at the gold on Metal.
Not sure how to deal with it =\
Will keep trying.
I find that if they expand I'm in great shape though. You can hold it all but you absolutely need brilliant control or you'll die. Get a practice partner to rush you over and over.
Yeah for sure. I tried to grab a quick forge and defend with cannons but. marauders are fair so that didn't work. Im not sure how to hold it on maps like Metal =\
I guess I'll just have to practice.
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EPT
