|
On November 18 2011 12:40 Keilah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 10:50 Belisarius wrote:On November 18 2011 08:22 Keilah wrote:On November 15 2011 05:04 BADSMCGEE wrote:On November 14 2011 08:11 Keilah wrote:On November 11 2011 11:19 Keilah wrote:
but can nexus first hold vs a 2-rax + PF rush? nobody ever takes this seriously, but try it... on maps where you can't FF them out of your natural, the PF + 2rax will kill your expo the reason nobody takes it seriously is because the nexus first is only weaker than 1/3 gate expo during an EXTREMELY small timing window. Time is a resource in sc2. Even with terran spending all of his money on units to punish your econ at the reactor 2 rax timing, nexus first still crushes it because the window where it is difficult is earlier. waiting longer, spending less money on units and more on an EBAY and CC in the NAT makes it almost laughable. plus, the amount of time it takes for the CC to build and morph into a PF is sacrificing in the "TIME" category alot...it's giving protoss light years to react and chrono out troops. I also realize only .01% of people that play sc2 play the same game i do, so if this works at your level, by all means get whatever wins you can with it! thanks for reading the guide! =D I don't 1v1 much but i've been world top 100 in 2v2 and 3v3 for a couple seasons so i'm no slouch. Did you actually try it, or just theory out that it's laughable? ...you suggest a counter to a 1v1 GM guy, and then when he says it doesn't work, you accuse him of theorycrafting while in the same post stating that you yourself don't play 1v1. Really dude? Yeah, really. If he'd actually tested it, he'd have said so instead of giving a theory-based answer. Way back when I used to 1v1 a bit, when the first proper guide to nexus first PvT came out, someone suggested the PF rush. I asked the guy who created the thread (I believe his name was 'darkness') to test it out and when he did, he agreed that he couldn't hold except on maps where he could lock out his natural with FFs (eg, shakuras). Now maybe things have changed or he just wasn't good enough, but I won't accept pure theory over the experience of the guy who wrote the book on nexus first.
Dude, axslav has defended this pressure SO MANY times, there is your proof. Now for the theory crafting, it's completely true! 1gate will be better at holding cheese in the <7m mark, but after that you should have MORE units with nexus first as your economy starts to stabilize.
|
Terran here. I do a Two-Rax (12/14) Gasless FE. It's usually defensive because I use Syntstyr's Anti-Collosus Build.
Someone tried this Nexus first against me on the ladder tonight. We spawned in Cross Positions of Shukuras so it should be the best place to use this build. At first I was like "WTF" then I just grabbed my rines, grabbed two SCVs, built a bunker at his natural and crushed it. EZ. I can post the replay if anyone wants it.
I guess this build requires you to micro REALLY well.
|
On November 18 2011 14:23 pezzaperry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 12:40 Keilah wrote:On November 18 2011 10:50 Belisarius wrote:On November 18 2011 08:22 Keilah wrote:On November 15 2011 05:04 BADSMCGEE wrote:On November 14 2011 08:11 Keilah wrote:On November 11 2011 11:19 Keilah wrote:
but can nexus first hold vs a 2-rax + PF rush? nobody ever takes this seriously, but try it... on maps where you can't FF them out of your natural, the PF + 2rax will kill your expo the reason nobody takes it seriously is because the nexus first is only weaker than 1/3 gate expo during an EXTREMELY small timing window. Time is a resource in sc2. Even with terran spending all of his money on units to punish your econ at the reactor 2 rax timing, nexus first still crushes it because the window where it is difficult is earlier. waiting longer, spending less money on units and more on an EBAY and CC in the NAT makes it almost laughable. plus, the amount of time it takes for the CC to build and morph into a PF is sacrificing in the "TIME" category alot...it's giving protoss light years to react and chrono out troops. I also realize only .01% of people that play sc2 play the same game i do, so if this works at your level, by all means get whatever wins you can with it! thanks for reading the guide! =D I don't 1v1 much but i've been world top 100 in 2v2 and 3v3 for a couple seasons so i'm no slouch. Did you actually try it, or just theory out that it's laughable? ...you suggest a counter to a 1v1 GM guy, and then when he says it doesn't work, you accuse him of theorycrafting while in the same post stating that you yourself don't play 1v1. Really dude? Yeah, really. If he'd actually tested it, he'd have said so instead of giving a theory-based answer. Way back when I used to 1v1 a bit, when the first proper guide to nexus first PvT came out, someone suggested the PF rush. I asked the guy who created the thread (I believe his name was 'darkness') to test it out and when he did, he agreed that he couldn't hold except on maps where he could lock out his natural with FFs (eg, shakuras). Now maybe things have changed or he just wasn't good enough, but I won't accept pure theory over the experience of the guy who wrote the book on nexus first. Dude, axslav has defended this pressure SO MANY times, there is your proof. Now for the theory crafting, it's completely true! 1gate will be better at holding cheese in the <7m mark, but after that you should have MORE units with nexus first as your economy starts to stabilize.
I think you are confused... axslav has defended a planetary fortress rush 'so many times'? I would be surprised if that's true.
|
On November 18 2011 15:15 Keilah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 14:23 pezzaperry wrote:On November 18 2011 12:40 Keilah wrote:On November 18 2011 10:50 Belisarius wrote:On November 18 2011 08:22 Keilah wrote:On November 15 2011 05:04 BADSMCGEE wrote:On November 14 2011 08:11 Keilah wrote:On November 11 2011 11:19 Keilah wrote:
but can nexus first hold vs a 2-rax + PF rush? nobody ever takes this seriously, but try it... on maps where you can't FF them out of your natural, the PF + 2rax will kill your expo the reason nobody takes it seriously is because the nexus first is only weaker than 1/3 gate expo during an EXTREMELY small timing window. Time is a resource in sc2. Even with terran spending all of his money on units to punish your econ at the reactor 2 rax timing, nexus first still crushes it because the window where it is difficult is earlier. waiting longer, spending less money on units and more on an EBAY and CC in the NAT makes it almost laughable. plus, the amount of time it takes for the CC to build and morph into a PF is sacrificing in the "TIME" category alot...it's giving protoss light years to react and chrono out troops. I also realize only .01% of people that play sc2 play the same game i do, so if this works at your level, by all means get whatever wins you can with it! thanks for reading the guide! =D I don't 1v1 much but i've been world top 100 in 2v2 and 3v3 for a couple seasons so i'm no slouch. Did you actually try it, or just theory out that it's laughable? ...you suggest a counter to a 1v1 GM guy, and then when he says it doesn't work, you accuse him of theorycrafting while in the same post stating that you yourself don't play 1v1. Really dude? Yeah, really. If he'd actually tested it, he'd have said so instead of giving a theory-based answer. Way back when I used to 1v1 a bit, when the first proper guide to nexus first PvT came out, someone suggested the PF rush. I asked the guy who created the thread (I believe his name was 'darkness') to test it out and when he did, he agreed that he couldn't hold except on maps where he could lock out his natural with FFs (eg, shakuras). Now maybe things have changed or he just wasn't good enough, but I won't accept pure theory over the experience of the guy who wrote the book on nexus first. Dude, axslav has defended this pressure SO MANY times, there is your proof. Now for the theory crafting, it's completely true! 1gate will be better at holding cheese in the <7m mark, but after that you should have MORE units with nexus first as your economy starts to stabilize. I think you are confused... axslav has defended a planetary fortress rush 'so many times'? I would be surprised if that's true.
wait.. you're suggesting a pf rush will counter this build? wtf. Okay even if it does (i am doubtful), no one will do that on ladder, so the build is still good... -.-
|
|
|
On November 18 2011 22:32 Sated wrote:
How to defend a PF rush:
- See a CC floating near your base.
- Put a probe under it.
- The CC can't land.
- Congratulations, you just won the game.
Not if they have units ^_^
|
On November 18 2011 22:49 pezzaperry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 22:32 Sated wrote:
How to defend a PF rush:
- See a CC floating near your base.
- Put a probe under it.
- The CC can't land.
- Congratulations, you just won the game. Not if they have units ^_^
I'm pretty noob, but someone explain to me why a nexus first would be weaker to a 7min timing than a 1g expo? Is anyone really making the claim that a 1g expo can hold a 2rax PF rush, but a Nexus first can't? There is only a small timing window between when the nexus is built and the gateways finish that a nexus first is weaker to a timing than a 1g expo...then it swings astronomically in the favor of nexus first.
|
On November 18 2011 15:01 Ripps wrote:
Terran here. I do a Two-Rax (12/14) Gasless FE. It's usually defensive because I use Syntstyr's Anti-Collosus Build.
Someone tried this Nexus first against me on the ladder tonight. We spawned in Cross Positions of Shukuras so it should be the best place to use this build. At first I was like "WTF" then I just grabbed my rines, grabbed two SCVs, built a bunker at his natural and crushed it. EZ. I can post the replay if anyone wants it.
I guess this build requires you to micro REALLY well.
Dude didn't play it well and also Shak is not the best map to do it on since the only 2 possible spawns are right next to each other. A 13 scout can get to his base with ample time to react. The guide here specifically says to scout around the nexus for a bunker; I bet your opponent didn't do that, or if he did, didn't bring enough probes to defend. I wouldn't post the replay, it will be shredded.
|
On November 18 2011 15:15 Keilah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 14:23 pezzaperry wrote:On November 18 2011 12:40 Keilah wrote:On November 18 2011 10:50 Belisarius wrote:On November 18 2011 08:22 Keilah wrote:On November 15 2011 05:04 BADSMCGEE wrote:On November 14 2011 08:11 Keilah wrote:On November 11 2011 11:19 Keilah wrote:
but can nexus first hold vs a 2-rax + PF rush? nobody ever takes this seriously, but try it... on maps where you can't FF them out of your natural, the PF + 2rax will kill your expo the reason nobody takes it seriously is because the nexus first is only weaker than 1/3 gate expo during an EXTREMELY small timing window. Time is a resource in sc2. Even with terran spending all of his money on units to punish your econ at the reactor 2 rax timing, nexus first still crushes it because the window where it is difficult is earlier. waiting longer, spending less money on units and more on an EBAY and CC in the NAT makes it almost laughable. plus, the amount of time it takes for the CC to build and morph into a PF is sacrificing in the "TIME" category alot...it's giving protoss light years to react and chrono out troops. I also realize only .01% of people that play sc2 play the same game i do, so if this works at your level, by all means get whatever wins you can with it! thanks for reading the guide! =D I don't 1v1 much but i've been world top 100 in 2v2 and 3v3 for a couple seasons so i'm no slouch. Did you actually try it, or just theory out that it's laughable? ...you suggest a counter to a 1v1 GM guy, and then when he says it doesn't work, you accuse him of theorycrafting while in the same post stating that you yourself don't play 1v1. Really dude? Yeah, really. If he'd actually tested it, he'd have said so instead of giving a theory-based answer. Way back when I used to 1v1 a bit, when the first proper guide to nexus first PvT came out, someone suggested the PF rush. I asked the guy who created the thread (I believe his name was 'darkness') to test it out and when he did, he agreed that he couldn't hold except on maps where he could lock out his natural with FFs (eg, shakuras). Now maybe things have changed or he just wasn't good enough, but I won't accept pure theory over the experience of the guy who wrote the book on nexus first. Dude, axslav has defended this pressure SO MANY times, there is your proof. Now for the theory crafting, it's completely true! 1gate will be better at holding cheese in the <7m mark, but after that you should have MORE units with nexus first as your economy starts to stabilize. I think you are confused... axslav has defended a planetary fortress rush 'so many times'? I would be surprised if that's true.
Just stop the trolling with the pf rush...
|
Started using this build today, and started holding 1/1/1 builds vs terran ridiculously easily! Thank you 
The one game I lost was when a superfast reaper got into my main on Shakuras, so i echo what the earlier poster said about it being tricky on maps like that.
|
On November 18 2011 15:15 Keilah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 14:23 pezzaperry wrote:On November 18 2011 12:40 Keilah wrote:On November 18 2011 10:50 Belisarius wrote:On November 18 2011 08:22 Keilah wrote:On November 15 2011 05:04 BADSMCGEE wrote:On November 14 2011 08:11 Keilah wrote:On November 11 2011 11:19 Keilah wrote:
but can nexus first hold vs a 2-rax + PF rush? nobody ever takes this seriously, but try it... on maps where you can't FF them out of your natural, the PF + 2rax will kill your expo the reason nobody takes it seriously is because the nexus first is only weaker than 1/3 gate expo during an EXTREMELY small timing window. Time is a resource in sc2. Even with terran spending all of his money on units to punish your econ at the reactor 2 rax timing, nexus first still crushes it because the window where it is difficult is earlier. waiting longer, spending less money on units and more on an EBAY and CC in the NAT makes it almost laughable. plus, the amount of time it takes for the CC to build and morph into a PF is sacrificing in the "TIME" category alot...it's giving protoss light years to react and chrono out troops. I also realize only .01% of people that play sc2 play the same game i do, so if this works at your level, by all means get whatever wins you can with it! thanks for reading the guide! =D I don't 1v1 much but i've been world top 100 in 2v2 and 3v3 for a couple seasons so i'm no slouch. Did you actually try it, or just theory out that it's laughable? ...you suggest a counter to a 1v1 GM guy, and then when he says it doesn't work, you accuse him of theorycrafting while in the same post stating that you yourself don't play 1v1. Really dude? Yeah, really. If he'd actually tested it, he'd have said so instead of giving a theory-based answer. Way back when I used to 1v1 a bit, when the first proper guide to nexus first PvT came out, someone suggested the PF rush. I asked the guy who created the thread (I believe his name was 'darkness') to test it out and when he did, he agreed that he couldn't hold except on maps where he could lock out his natural with FFs (eg, shakuras). Now maybe things have changed or he just wasn't good enough, but I won't accept pure theory over the experience of the guy who wrote the book on nexus first. Dude, axslav has defended this pressure SO MANY times, there is your proof. Now for the theory crafting, it's completely true! 1gate will be better at holding cheese in the <7m mark, but after that you should have MORE units with nexus first as your economy starts to stabilize. I think you are confused... axslav has defended a planetary fortress rush 'so many times'? I would be surprised if that's true.
lol pf rushes are terrible. they rely on your oppoent fucking up hard or having 500ms of lag. 1 probe under the cc and your screwed. the poster u quoted is saying that the nex first can defend the normal 2 rax pressure fine, and since a cc builds as fast as a carrier, moves as fast as a overlord and costs 400 mins + ebay for a pf, your unit count is going to suffer or your timing is going to be delayed. therefore the pressure would be alot easier to hold off. even if u do manage to get the cc down, you still have to account for build time where the protoss can crush your army and then kill your pf or just baserace and win.
|
On November 10 2011 22:23 xTrim wrote:
Last time i faced a nexus first in TDA i proxied factory for a thor marine scv all in... easy gg
how does one stop it, apart from scouting the proxy, ofc
Proxy factory and tech to thor? what league are you in
|
On November 20 2011 19:14 firehand101 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:23 xTrim wrote:
Last time i faced a nexus first in TDA i proxied factory for a thor marine scv all in... easy gg
how does one stop it, apart from scouting the proxy, ofc Proxy factory and tech to thor? what league are you in
That build was strong as crap before the repairing SCV nerf. Now zealots clean it up pretty nicely.
|
K this is the last time I'll post, but you guys are all missing on something good by dismissing it out of hand instead of actually trying it.
re: how can it work, nex first after 7min >> 1gate nexus?
-hit before 7min of course
re: probe stops CC from landing, lol ezpz gg
-don't be ridiculous, obviously the terran mm/scvs will kill your probe(s). Normally when facing 2rax you need to let the terran hit your nexus for a while, warp in a round or two of units, then surround with probes + units. In the period where you're waiting for warpins, he can safely land CC. And if the PF goes up, nothing toss has this early is going to scratch it.
re: nexus first can hold 2rax, if you make a CC and ebay your 2rax will be even weaker
-not really. You can afford to build units from your two barracks, proxy a CC, and build an ebay that completes shortly after the CC, all without cutting unit production. 2rax is normally expanding around the time it moves out anyways. Just proxy the CC instead of making it at your natural.
|
On November 21 2011 08:19 Keilah wrote:
K this is the last time I'll post, but you guys are all missing on something good by dismissing it out of hand instead of actually trying it.
re: how can it work, nex first after 7min >> 1gate nexus?
-hit before 7min of course
re: probe stops CC from landing, lol ezpz gg
-don't be ridiculous, obviously the terran mm/scvs will kill your probe(s). Normally when facing 2rax you need to let the terran hit your nexus for a while, warp in a round or two of units, then surround with probes + units. In the period where you're waiting for warpins, he can safely land CC. And if the PF goes up, nothing toss has this early is going to scratch it.
re: nexus first can hold 2rax, if you make a CC and ebay your 2rax will be even weaker
-not really. You can afford to build units from your two barracks, proxy a CC, and build an ebay that completes shortly after the CC, all without cutting unit production. 2rax is normally expanding around the time it moves out anyways. Just proxy the CC instead of making it at your natural.
? why don't you try it and post a replay. I can't see a "PF rush" ever working honestly. That thing flies wayyy too slowly to ever land. I've never had to have my Nexus take hits versus 2rax, unless taken completely by surpise.
You're assuming the 2rax will kill everything protoss has AND his probes. There's no way you could land a CC if all the probes weren't killed.
|
just practiced for like 2hrs doing only this build with my clan mate, lost to every single time he did scv marine allin (like 5-7times) other than that its not hard to defend anything else..
|
On November 21 2011 20:55 iNkopwnz wrote:
just practiced for like 2hrs doing only this build with my clan mate, lost to every single time he did scv marine allin (like 5-7times) other than that its not hard to defend anything else..
yeah man its definitely tricky. Takes a lot of micro/delay tactics...but refer to the replays of Axslav holding it if you want!
|
Tried this yesterday with great success... Very good build for bigger maps for sure.
|
It's so frustrating to play against this build in the hands of a good player ><
|
I hate seeing nex first. Not really sure whta to do to counter it anymore. Used to 4rax marine scv all in (as dumb as it is) just because I hated going in to a game being behind. You can't play too greedy cause protoss has some timings after a nex first they can abuse and then you can't play passive of course. I'm gonna try luckyfool's advice next time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
