EPT[G] Axslav's Nexus First PvT - Page 6
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KiF1rE
United States964 Posts
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WolfBro
United States59 Posts
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durr
United States148 Posts
just found the replay in the thread my bad going to watch it now. but this one is a 5 rax and i get hit earlier but maybe it will still help | ||
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
i just played many instances of nexus first and 1 gate fe openings on yabot. the biggest advantages of 1 gate fe are that you are teching faster and that your first zealot/stalker are earlier but except that the nexus first opening is superior. even if all chrono boost after the initial 2 on nexus are done on the 2 or 3 gates exclusively you end op with a better economy than 1 gate fe (i used the build with nexus @~28-30 supply because the 20 build is as "unsafe" as the nexus first build i would say?) the greatest advantage of the nexus first build is the early 2nd nexus and the additional chronoboost you get. people underestimate this. fact is that the first zealot is 40 to 45 sec later than in the 1 gate fe and the first stalker even almost a minute. but some of you overestimate this "vulnerability". if the terran doesnt proxy all in or so (which he has to decide before he can see the nexus first) the only thing that would kill the nexus is if the terran succeeds to get the bunker down (which means the protoss has failed... either in control or scouting or both). from here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=202400) i see the earliest timing for this marine/scv all in seems to be the 5 minute mark ( » 2 Rax • 8 marines +~15 scvs @5:05). is that right? axslav has shown several times that it is possible to fend off such a push (there are even examples in the op). even if they all in you always have the option to sacrifice the nexus and if you didnt lose too many probes you are quite fine. anyway. in my opinion the nexus first opening is just harder to pull off. as described in the op the thing is that terrans arent used to that and the probability that they will all in or cheese is quite high. but i think thats a good practice ^^ and for the PF rush... the timing is about the 6 minute mark. i can see no reason why nexus first should be any more vulnerable to this than 1 gate fe. if you scout 2 rax aggression, you will make many units anyway. i never played against such a push and maybe the element of surprise will win that match but other than that i dont think so. but if the pf rush is no auto win against the 1 gate fe i wont be against nexus first neither. i love this build and i dont understand why not more pro gamer are using it. maybe there is a way to punish this and i am just too bad (and axslav as well then ^^) and dont know about it. sorry for that long post :D i can even upload the yabot replays but i dont claim that what i did there was the absolute truth rather than an estimation ^^ | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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LastLemming
United States38 Posts
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Nickemwit
United States253 Posts
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Mellon
Sweden917 Posts
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
did you watch all the replays/vods? and about those hellions, i think i saw how retreat his probes up until he got some stalkers. if you have a robo, build an immortal? immortal crushs marauder and hellions... especially check that you are doing some good sim city and beware of hellion drops | ||
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Blossom
United Kingdom87 Posts
I'm having a lot of trouble with this: I'm going nexus first and scouting 1 gas a couple of marines no lab or reactor. Then my opponent sees I have early expanded and just does a stim timing push and rapes me :/ Hm! | ||
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
if he got gas and no addon did he maybe proxy? by the time he has stim (he even starts the tech lab after your probe was chased away which delays the stim timing even further) his push will come later than 7 minutes. so even 1 gate fe should hold that. nexus first will crush that even harder. i suspect a scouting fail or bad control/reaction/forgot gates. :< | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
GOD BLESS EG.AXSLAV, GOD BLESS TEAM LIQUID.NET AND GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Could this please... I don't want this really... Anyway as a terran player I just kill nexus first every time with 4 rax all ins. Instead of CC i just throw down 4 rax and there seems to be nothing they can do to stop this. Is this true? Usually i'm at their base when the first stalker pops :/ | ||
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bLo0d
58 Posts
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BADSMCGEE
United States94 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:10 Recognizable wrote: Could this please... I don't want this really... Anyway as a terran player I just kill nexus first every time with 4 rax all ins. Instead of CC i just throw down 4 rax and there seems to be nothing they can do to stop this. Is this true? Usually i'm at their base when the first stalker pops :/ There is not only a detailed description of how to hold it off...there is a replay of axslav holding it when they bring all their scvs too. You seem to be able to read because you have no trouble giving me shit about writing what i want god to bless. So what's your excuse? | ||
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Yuffie
132 Posts
This happens to me often, and i also see it on whitera stream. He does attack with probes, and later on loses  cheers | ||
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
if tries, pull maybe 2 more probes and kill the scv thats what i would do if its alreasy too far contructed build a gate and proceed then | ||
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solidshadow
1 Post
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/liquidhero/b/304392027 | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
I had a scout in his base, and I saw the factory *before* the first marine. I had the watchtower, and I saw two helions incoming around 5', and another two reinforcing around 6'. You don't have many stalkers at that timing, warp isn't finished yet, I'm on 1 gate robo ( since I scouted a factory ), chronoing the gate but even with 2 stalkers, one per base.. you don't have the dps to defend your probes from 2 helions each.. any idea ? Should I drop a second gate, chrono stalkers from 2 gates and delay the robo ? | ||
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