EPTTldr; leaving Zerg unmolested for 10 minutes is bad, this build needs just something to put pressure on.
[G]Terran vs Zerg 1-1 16 marine drop - Page 5
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
Tldr; leaving Zerg unmolested for 10 minutes is bad, this build needs just something to put pressure on. | ||
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elf.Rough
Uganda22 Posts
my drop timing is not very punktual but till that time i haven't been attacked by zerg (probably coz i've played not much games) with this drop i'm able to scout his buildings + i force him to make spine and spore crawlers thus less drones even without drop's dronekills so in result of my drop&helions ride zerg is behind in mining time and if i'm good enough with micro in drones count If i'm not mistake goody is doing such staff and some guys from gsl I think it's better choise than wait till 10 minutes to drop zerg | ||
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shakenbake
United States207 Posts
as for the questions about early attacks. its all about scouting and reacting. against zerg u should bunker ur natural anyway and before any roach push. 1 bunker with some repair should hold off the standard early 6-7 roach pushes. really good build/guide, had alot of success on ladder. ps. a tip to where u drop, if u get lucky and zerg positioning his buildings in a way that u can abuse to decrease the surface area on the marine ball, drop there. or behind the minerals, as that spot is really cost efficient to fight lings from. | ||
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HansK
249 Posts
On September 24 2011 00:44 DoctorFunk wrote: This build is okay. The problem is that this build does not punish s fast 3rd. Since the Terran is stuck in his base until almost 10 minutes, the Zerg should already be on 3 bases. If the drop doesn't do damage, the Zerg is pretty far ahead as long as he doesn't screw up. While this is a good platform for the late game, since you leave the Zerg unmolested for ~10 minutes, your drop MUST do damage. The Zerg will probably be on 3 saturated bases by the time you drop, and probably take a fourth after. I mean this 1 rax expand does set you up for the late game, but since you have no harassing or aggressive options, the Zerg should just fly ahead no matter how hard you macro. Tldr; leaving Zerg unmolested for 10 minutes is bad, this build needs just something to put pressure on. If the zerg is 100% saturated on 3 bases by the time this drop hits [10:00] then they have been doing nothing but pump drones and your drop will do damage. If not you will have saturation on two bases with a 3rd going up + mules. | ||
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SummerZerg
United States82 Posts
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HansK
249 Posts
On September 24 2011 07:59 SummerZerg wrote: there is a lot better opener than this using the 1 rax reaper xpand that transitions into this build u dont get the +1/+1 but you have 16 marine drop with stim and combat shield and its quicker i believe. I really like the ability to get the reaper out and scout and do some early harrass too. Please if you're going to post 'better' builds show replays, explain the reasons in detail why it's better and so forth. The 1-1 makes marines much stronger and sets you up for great late game upgrades. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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pwadoc
271 Posts
On September 22 2011 10:43 statikg wrote: 40 lings against 16 1/1 marines with stim shields? I just played a game where my drop killed 70lings and I lost one marine. Granted I was in a decent choke but even dropping at the side of the base gives you a pretty good surface area. Its not that hard to avoid OL spread until you get close enough to drop at the side of the base before lings can arrive. (I mean you will see the drop coming in time to prevent a in mineral line drop but not side of the base drop which still completely owns 40lings. Banelings or mutas can stop this (at a cost to your muta count). I think you're overestimating the strength of marines. The only way 16 marines will kill 70 lings is if the zerg engages in a bad position with inferior upgrades and the zerg fails to scout at all. The general rule is that an equal mineral value of lings, with equal upgrades, will defeat marines with several lings remaining. This works for any size marine ball. re: double drops on an early third. This is probably a good tactic, though it will get shut down pretty hard if the zerg gets spines and a spore crawler (which I always do at my third). You also pretty much have to take out the hatch. The zerg can re-saturate that hatch or run the drones away otherwise. | ||
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ContactKilla
United States194 Posts
I have a game that I kill about 20 lings, 30 drones, 5 Mutas, and a hatchery using only 16 marines n 2 medvacs. | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
On September 25 2011 16:15 Kornholi0 wrote: I have a question, I deal with drops very well (1 at a time that is) especially a drop that happens at the 11 minute mark... What I am wondering is how do you not auto-lose if you do 0 damage with your drop? You VOD kind of shows like a "lol the zerg is bad" scenario. What would happen against a zerg who actually has +1/+1 himself or infestors or mutalisk or half the decency to scout the drop and pre-move his lings? You do lose unless the Zerg is bad | ||
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HansK
249 Posts
You don't. If a zerg has 1/1 upgrades and infestors or mutas out at the 10 minute mark and enough units to hold the drop easily it means he's not on 3 bases with 70 drones, which means you are on 2 fully saturated bases and almost ready to take your third. How do you end up so far behind? It's not really some crazy all-in, it's a well known way to play TvZ by many pros and I just incorporated 1-1 upgrades into it and stim and combat shield. Really the only thing you lose vs standard play is like 2 tanks but you have 1-1 upgrades and early medivacs in place. | ||
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ganil
253 Posts
A zerg who rushes mutas will have them out at 10.30... and your drop will fail. Moreover there is no early game pressure (wich is suicide against a good zerg). Also it loses hardcore vs bling bust and roach/ling all in (unless you wall off with triple rax). | ||
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HansK
249 Posts
On September 26 2011 02:15 ganil wrote: I watched it. I don't think it's good. A zerg who rushes mutas will have them out at 10.30... and your drop will fail. Moreover there is no early game pressure (wich is suicide against a good zerg). Also it loses hardcore vs bling bust and roach/ling all in (unless you wall off with triple rax). This build is amazing vs mutas... actually probably much better than standard play. I don't know about the roach/ling/bling all in, I'd need to see a replay of one breaking down 3 bunkers and 2 ebays behind them with proper micro pre 10 minutes to see if it is a auto win. | ||
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ROOTIllusion
United States1060 Posts
 . PM for questions | ||
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lawlohwhat
United States32 Posts
Also, if I'm zerg and I see a single viking killing my overlords, my first instinct is to prepare for drops. Not to mention that eco based bling busts hit before you move out and will at best put you even with the zerg. | ||
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ROOTIllusion
United States1060 Posts
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4tre55
Germany330 Posts
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
On September 26 2011 02:28 HansK wrote: This build is amazing vs mutas... actually probably much better than standard play. I don't know about the roach/ling/bling all in, I'd need to see a replay of one breaking down 3 bunkers and 2 ebays behind them with proper micro pre 10 minutes to see if it is a auto win. I've used this plenty of times, some times I've demolished the Zerg with my drop and outright won there. However, some zergs I've played that scouted well and responded well came out ahead. Each time I lost, Zerg had their third up and banes and lings waiting for my drop. If the Zerg has simcitied their main in a way where marines can be protected, it can be an auto win. I'll look for the replays where I lost to a quick third. | ||
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HansK
249 Posts
On September 29 2011 04:14 DoctorFunk wrote: I've used this plenty of times, some times I've demolished the Zerg with my drop and outright won there. However, some zergs I've played that scouted well and responded well came out ahead. Each time I lost, Zerg had their third up and banes and lings waiting for my drop. If the Zerg has simcitied their main in a way where marines can be protected, it can be an auto win. I'll look for the replays where I lost to a quick third. If they have enough zerglings/banelings to defend two drops at separate locations or one location with all marines with proper micro, and 3 bases fully saturated, and also some how cause you to lose every unit on your drop, I'd love to see the replay. From my experiences if you're allowed to get up to the drop one of two things happen: They are on two bases and have a good amount of units and you can do a light harass but not commit to it the majority of time. How ever you should also have two bases well saturated and the resources and infrastructure to set up your third to match his 3rd closely. The other thing that happens is they have a 3rd base but no drones or very little drones there, and a decent amount of units. In this case they normally take some losses with some multi-pronged harass possibly even losing a hatchery or take large drone or unit losses. In this case you are both even too, it seems.[or you're ahead depending on the damage you were able to do] Then of course there is the option I did not include which it out-right kills them because this should only be the case if they droned all 3 bases fully with extractors and didn't build units because they didn't think you were coming as they didn't scout you pushing out, this or something close to this happens very often and you do major major damage or kill them. | ||
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