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[G]Terran vs Zerg 1-1 16 marine drop - Page 9

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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GorE_
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia26 Posts
November 20 2011 08:36 GMT
#161
Thanks man.. this build has saved my TvZ

just gotta work out how i can put some pressure on before the 10 minute mark... a cheeky fake bunker rush maybe??

who knows.. i'll keep reading i bet someone will come up with something good

cheers

Nate
ZiegFeld
Profile Joined April 2011
351 Posts
November 20 2011 09:54 GMT
#162
In the first game of Bomber and Destiny in their bo3 series, a similar build was executed but it hits at the 8 minute mark instead of the 11th minute.
HansK
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
249 Posts
November 20 2011 10:05 GMT
#163
On November 20 2011 18:54 ZiegFeld wrote:
In the first game of Bomber and Destiny in their bo3 series, a similar build was executed but it hits at the 8 minute mark instead of the 11th minute.


It's not possible to have 16 1-1 stim + combat shield marines while being safe from baneling bust and two bases with good saturation at the eight minute mark. I'm not even sure if it's possible to have it by the 8 minute mark at all..
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
November 20 2011 11:29 GMT
#164
On November 20 2011 06:50 deathtrance wrote:
So what happens if the greedy zerg gets a spire up at 9 minutes and snipes your drop?


you dont get spire that early

you get infestors and melt it with some fungals
The_Unseen
Profile Joined March 2011
France1923 Posts
November 20 2011 11:59 GMT
#165
Mad props for the build to the OP.

About early mutas: I encountered them once. Like, 10 minutes mass mutalisks. I figured "Oh yeah? then you won't have many banelings. ALL IIIIIIIIIIIIN"

And the Zerg got crushed. If he goes early mass mutas, just take everything and go fucking kill him!
I got five reasons for you to shut up
SukKkeltjE
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden8 Posts
November 20 2011 12:13 GMT
#166
This build was used against me by ST_Rainbow, but he made a few adjustments to it. I think his build is better because he gets mapcontrol early on and he's safe against any baneling-bust or speedling all-in.

http://drop.sc/61367
llKenZyll
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States853 Posts
November 20 2011 21:42 GMT
#167
What about banelings? I usually easily counter these shenanigans by spotting the medivacs coming with spread out Overlords. I then bring some banelings and zerglings up (about five banelings with speed) and I totally shut down this drop. Is there a good counter to this? I can imagine people doing multiprong attacks with the medivacs to separate the banelings but other than that it seems like banelings (a staple in zvt) would just shut this down.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nd6nd/tang_in_his_natural_habitat/
Waah
Profile Joined February 2011
United States120 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-20 23:35:00
November 20 2011 23:34 GMT
#168
On November 21 2011 06:42 Lebzetu wrote:
What about banelings? I usually easily counter these shenanigans by spotting the medivacs coming with spread out Overlords. I then bring some banelings and zerglings up (about five banelings with speed) and I totally shut down this drop. Is there a good counter to this? I can imagine people doing multiprong attacks with the medivacs to separate the banelings but other than that it seems like banelings (a staple in zvt) would just shut this down.

Don't drop the Zerg at all if lings are all over the mineral line--Terran isn't behind, since you made an excessive amount of lings to prepare to begin with. Drops can still work regardless, if the Zerg's building placement allows it. If you have banelings positioned in the mineral line already, you'd have to pay attention to not have two detonate on a single marine. Also, investing gas into baneling speed and banelings will reduce muta count, which is nice for the Terran.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
November 21 2011 00:13 GMT
#169
On November 21 2011 06:42 Lebzetu wrote:
What about banelings? I usually easily counter these shenanigans by spotting the medivacs coming with spread out Overlords. I then bring some banelings and zerglings up (about five banelings with speed) and I totally shut down this drop. Is there a good counter to this? I can imagine people doing multiprong attacks with the medivacs to separate the banelings but other than that it seems like banelings (a staple in zvt) would just shut this down.


Banelings are in fact the best counter to this build, however, many don't have them premade or even a baneling nest necessarily.
llKenZyll
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States853 Posts
November 21 2011 00:29 GMT
#170
On November 21 2011 09:13 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2011 06:42 Lebzetu wrote:
What about banelings? I usually easily counter these shenanigans by spotting the medivacs coming with spread out Overlords. I then bring some banelings and zerglings up (about five banelings with speed) and I totally shut down this drop. Is there a good counter to this? I can imagine people doing multiprong attacks with the medivacs to separate the banelings but other than that it seems like banelings (a staple in zvt) would just shut this down.


Banelings are in fact the best counter to this build, however, many don't have them premade or even a baneling nest necessarily.

Well smart zergs get a baneling nest at 20/80 lair and instant baneling speed. That way, they can deal with pushes soooo much easier.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nd6nd/tang_in_his_natural_habitat/
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
November 21 2011 01:00 GMT
#171
On November 21 2011 09:29 Lebzetu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2011 09:13 FabledIntegral wrote:
On November 21 2011 06:42 Lebzetu wrote:
What about banelings? I usually easily counter these shenanigans by spotting the medivacs coming with spread out Overlords. I then bring some banelings and zerglings up (about five banelings with speed) and I totally shut down this drop. Is there a good counter to this? I can imagine people doing multiprong attacks with the medivacs to separate the banelings but other than that it seems like banelings (a staple in zvt) would just shut this down.


Banelings are in fact the best counter to this build, however, many don't have them premade or even a baneling nest necessarily.

Well smart zergs get a baneling nest at 20/80 lair and instant baneling speed. That way, they can deal with pushes soooo much easier.


I'm aware of general timings, it doesn't mean they'll be prepared for the drop. If you don't see it coming (aka they end up going on a path that isn't near your ovies, or they simply land before your lings get to them) then it can still do tons of damage, picking off units then picking up into the medivac when the slow banes arrive.
MysteryHours
Profile Joined September 2010
United States168 Posts
November 21 2011 02:55 GMT
#172
On November 20 2011 21:13 SukKkeltjE wrote:
This build was used against me by ST_Rainbow, but he made a few adjustments to it. I think his build is better because he gets mapcontrol early on and he's safe against any baneling-bust or speedling all-in.

http://drop.sc/61367

For anyone wondering this is a reactor hellion expand into 16 marine drop w/ stim. The drop comes earlier but without combat shields or 1-1. Looks solid, but I don't know how this is supposed to be any better against baneling/speedling all-ins compared to the OPs build.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-21 03:44:33
November 21 2011 03:38 GMT
#173
only problem i have is this seems like it would die to a baneling bust as well as the fact that the you dont pressure the zerg at all.

but depending on how well your marine control and splitting is this could be a very good build in some cases.

i prob wont use it much simply becaus im in bronze and try to go bio ball for my tvz ( i play for fun and i just enjoy bio more against zergs even though its weak and hard to control.)
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Waah
Profile Joined February 2011
United States120 Posts
November 21 2011 07:05 GMT
#174
On November 21 2011 12:38 karis wrote:
only problem i have is this seems like it would die to a baneling bust as well as the fact that the you dont pressure the zerg at all.

but depending on how well your marine control and splitting is this could be a very good build in some cases.

i prob wont use it much simply becaus im in bronze and try to go bio ball for my tvz ( i play for fun and i just enjoy bio more against zergs even though its weak and hard to control.)

Don't know why you need to worry about dying from a baneling bust. A Zerg would opt to macro up instead. At any rate, a well timed scan or preemptive bunkers (it's not like you can spend the money fast enough with a fast natural and without too many production facilities early on) help stop it.

If you get a good spot in the mineral line, no need to split marines. 16 of them will snipe any incoming banelings (assuming the Zerg ran his drones away).
ZiegFeld
Profile Joined April 2011
351 Posts
November 21 2011 10:05 GMT
#175
On November 20 2011 19:05 HansK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2011 18:54 ZiegFeld wrote:
In the first game of Bomber and Destiny in their bo3 series, a similar build was executed but it hits at the 8 minute mark instead of the 11th minute.


It's not possible to have 16 1-1 stim + combat shield marines while being safe from baneling bust and two bases with good saturation at the eight minute mark. I'm not even sure if it's possible to have it by the 8 minute mark at all..
It is. 2 Medivacs, 16 Marines, stim but no Combat Shield, no delay in SCV production.
duckmaster
Profile Joined August 2011
687 Posts
November 21 2011 10:41 GMT
#176
I think I do that particular build ZiegField is referring to. There are multiple ways to open the build I guess, personally I do 12/14 2 rax with CC at 23, immediately add two gases, one more barracks, @100 gas factory, next 100 gas stim (3rd refinery) and then go for reactored starport from there. You'll have around 16 rines with stim and 2 medivacs at around 8 minutes if you do it correctly. Immediately after getting the medivacs just add Ebay, and begin tank production. Your combat shields, +1 and siege mode should all finish at the same time for a strong timing push at around 10 minutes.
HansK
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
249 Posts
November 21 2011 15:20 GMT
#177
On November 21 2011 19:05 ZiegFeld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2011 19:05 HansK wrote:
On November 20 2011 18:54 ZiegFeld wrote:
In the first game of Bomber and Destiny in their bo3 series, a similar build was executed but it hits at the 8 minute mark instead of the 11th minute.


It's not possible to have 16 1-1 stim + combat shield marines while being safe from baneling bust and two bases with good saturation at the eight minute mark. I'm not even sure if it's possible to have it by the 8 minute mark at all..
It is. 2 Medivacs, 16 Marines, stim but no Combat Shield, no delay in SCV production.


The combat shield is such a huge part of the build though, I would still love to see 1-1 stim marines with double medivacs at the 8 minute mark with non stop scv production. Might be possible but not sure, but it's for sure not possible to have 1-1 + stim + combat shield + medivac + 16 marines + enough marines to fill bunkers to defend baneling bust and good scv count at 8:00..
tQSky
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada63 Posts
November 21 2011 15:25 GMT
#178
I really don't think this would work against zergs, that don't even have lair. Before the 10 minute mark zergs will have 3-4 queens and atleast 30 ling waiting for a tank rine push. But if you just drop with 16 marines. Not very useful unless you do a shit ton of dmge or they don't engage properly and they lose the queens, lingd etc. But most of the time the queens should focus the medivacs and the drop is over. I'm a high lvl zerg and I've faced a lot of scary drops.
Beast
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
November 21 2011 15:38 GMT
#179
Im only high plat, and my tvz was very random(either I crush or get crushed) so I started working with this build. Unfortunately it seems to be hit or miss, a lot of it depending on my execution. I think the best part about this build is the fast 3-3 upgraes if you stay on time with them. Having 3-3 by 20min has won me a few more games I probably would have lost under my previous circumstances. Its like having all new marines.
seizmik
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada5 Posts
November 21 2011 15:52 GMT
#180
I'd like to know if this strategy can work against protoss, or at least what are the variations needed to make it effective against FE-ing protoss.
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