|
On September 22 2011 06:35 Boraz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 01:53 bmn wrote:On September 20 2011 23:27 Boraz wrote:So it won't hit til atleast 9:30. I think it can work up to diamond. But in masters I have spire done by 10 minutes and will have plenty of lings to defend the drop til mutas are out to kill medivacs. Maybe I'm weird for trying to get a fast spire against terran though. Overall I see how this build can work  The OP has masters replays, what makes you think it will not work there? I'm also not sure how you plan to defend the drop with only lings if he drops them in a choke/mineral line/choke. Your mutas will not do anything if he already unloaded his marines in your base; they're only good to prevent drops from arriving. You need more than that to actually take out the marines once they are there; mutas vs 1-1 marines is a terrible fight to pick, especially that early on when you definitely don't have 16 mutas to match his marine numbers. Right. It's called good OL spread around your base. If you see medivacs coming have your lings already in your main and he can't drop in a choke. It's also called don't make a choke with your building for them to drop in. Maybe I'm a special case but drops like this don't work against me.
They don't have to. They just need to force you to make enough units so that they don't work. Thats the idea.
|
40 lings against 16 1/1 marines with stim shields? I just played a game where my drop killed 70lings and I lost one marine. Granted I was in a decent choke but even dropping at the side of the base gives you a pretty good surface area. Its not that hard to avoid OL spread until you get close enough to drop at the side of the base before lings can arrive. (I mean you will see the drop coming in time to prevent a in mineral line drop but not side of the base drop which still completely owns 40lings.
Banelings or mutas can stop this (at a cost to your muta count).
|
|
|
I tried it and it's pretty ridiculous lol, have you tried this in TvT or TvP?
|
I do this with TvP and TvZ. Its a little scary doing it TvT because 1-1-1 would stop this pretty well if the tanks have siege
|
On September 21 2011 02:59 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:14 DustinQQ wrote:
I've been using this build quite a lot on maps with close air position to zergs. It's really effective but I've never tried it with 1-1 upgrades. Usually I have my 2 medivacs and 16 marines around ~8 mins, with combat shield halfway done and attack 1/4th done. There's been a lot of times where i drop and the spire is halfway done, so i pick it off. i'm not sure how safe this build will be if Z goes mutalisk, but this build will transition nicely into tank marine with quick 3/3 bio upgrades. if you can get a replay of a FE build that has 16marines and 2 medivacs at 8minutes, i'd be very interested in seeing it, as well as pretty much every terran pro out there lol.
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=232782
here you go. doesnt get you 1-1 or two bunkers at natural, b/c you don't have enough units to support it after you load and leave. if you scout baneling all-in or w/e, delay starport and make bunkers at main. lift rax and wall off, etc. this is just my variation of the reactored starport, it also opens with 2 reaper. you secure your natural a bit later, but i think it's worth it for dropships a minute earlier. I feel like a zerg rushing to mutalisk would come and make the 9:30 min drops useless.
i wasn't really paying attention in the rest of the game, but i'm just showing you the build to get marines and medivacs @ ~8 (8:23) with 16 marines and stim + combatshield halfway done. 1-0 starts soon after medivacs leave base.
back on topic, this build is quite good, gets kind of sketchy if zerg rushes mutalisk because the dropships come out around 9:30.
|
i like this, it really punishes zerg going for a fast third because of no hellion/banshee threat. but i kinda died from really fast infestors, part of it was a problem with my splitting marines and being too *risky* with the drop, but i think even if i did split and dropped further away, his infestors would hold off rather nicely with lings/fungal. i played another game after, but i wanted to turn the zerg away from early infestors so i went with 2 rax and an earlier factory w/ reactor, so id make hellions to feint some scary hellion timing attack (even though they're nerfed, its not like lings and queens are the counter to hellions. like they *have* to do something that marines counter  ) to force the zerg to create roaches or more spines. if i think he's spent a significant amount of resources in response to the hellions, ill give the reactor to the rax, and while im doing the hellion shenanigans i would have expo'd and have marine/medivac production, to follow up with a drop, which would either end the game or do some terrible, terrible damage. eh, just a thought, dont know exact timings, i just was like. hmm. ill take out a barracks and put in an earlier factory.
oh btw, when you say put 2 scvs on each geyser, does it mean +2 (making it three because of the one that built it) or have 2 in total on each geyser? lol sorry >.>
|
On September 22 2011 13:29 TangFish wrote:i like this, it really punishes zerg going for a fast third because of no hellion/banshee threat. but i kinda died from really fast infestors, part of it was a problem with my splitting marines and being too *risky* with the drop, but i think even if i did split and dropped further away, his infestors would hold off rather nicely with lings/fungal. i played another game after, but i wanted to turn the zerg away from early infestors so i went with 2 rax and an earlier factory w/ reactor, so id make hellions to feint some scary hellion timing attack (even though they're nerfed, its not like lings and queens are the counter to hellions. like they *have* to do something that marines counter ) to force the zerg to create roaches or more spines. if i think he's spent a significant amount of resources in response to the hellions, ill give the reactor to the rax, and while im doing the hellion shenanigans i would have expo'd and have marine/medivac production, to follow up with a drop, which would either end the game or do some terrible, terrible damage. eh, just a thought, dont know exact timings, i just was like. hmm. ill take out a barracks and put in an earlier factory. oh btw, when you say put 2 scvs on each geyser, does it mean +2 (making it three because of the one that built it) or have 2 in total on each geyser? lol sorry >.>
Yeah I'm going to change that, I mean 3 on each geyser. Keep in mind I've said this a million times but if they build very early infestors then you've already done what you want with this build - stop them from being uber greedy and play a normal game from there!
|
Hey HansK, i greatly appreciate your video, just the 1-1-1 vid. I don't know your situation but i'm going to give you some feedback of how i'm experiencing the video's i've seen from you. If you feel offended and see this as negative critisism. Then keep the following in mind: I only say this because i want you to succeed, nothing less.
1)It is my believe that you should lead by example and you suggest things that you don't do in the video.
-you suggest getting more marines, yet you don't do it.@3:50
-you haven't hotkeyed like you where recommend us to do.@6:00
2)I'd like to see the video more refined. Where everything goes as its supposed to go. You give us a game where you know your opponent isn't going to bust you early on. You could have at least pretended that he'd do it and wall off. So Instead of giving us an off replay where you know your opponent is isn't going to be aggresive early on. Do a more commen type of match where its more uncertain and you're playing it safer.
3)You give us excuses, macro is poor etc. I get the feeling that you have rushed your video and that seems, for a lack of better word, unprofessional to me. If that makes sense. I'd like to think that you have put at least some effort into this, but saying such stuff just takes it all away.
4) one other thing i'd like to see is the production tab. Maybe its just a personal thing but i'd love to see it at all times.
I think that you are doing something amazing and because of that id say that you shouldn't give others the opportunity to 'steal' it and take it away just because they will make it a very pleasent viewing experience for other people.
Thanks for reading because i felt an urge to express it afther watching your video's and have a great day.
|
On September 23 2011 06:41 Stingart wrote:
Hey HansK, i greatly appreciate your video, just the 1-1-1 vid. I don't know your situation but i'm going to give you some feedback of how i'm experiencing the video's i've seen from you. If you feel offended and see this as negative critisism. Then keep the following in mind: I only say this because i want you to succeed, nothing less.
1)It is my believe that you should lead by example and you suggest things that you don't do in the video.
-you suggest getting more marines, yet you don't do it.@3:50
-you haven't hotkeyed like you where recommend us to do.@6:00
2)I'd like to see the video more refined. Where everything goes as its supposed to go. You give us a game where you know your opponent isn't going to bust you early on. You could have at least pretended that he'd do it and wall off. So Instead of giving us an off replay where you know your opponent is isn't going to be aggresive early on. Do a more commen type of match where its more uncertain and you're playing it safer.
3)You give us excuses, macro is poor etc. I get the feeling that you have rushed your video and that seems, for a lack of better word, unprofessional to me. If that makes sense. I'd like to think that you have put at least some effort into this, but saying such stuff just takes it all away.
4) one other thing i'd like to see is the production tab. Maybe its just a personal thing but i'd love to see it at all times.
I think that you are doing something amazing and because of that id say that you shouldn't give others the opportunity to 'steal' it and take it away just because they will make it a very pleasent viewing experience for other people.
Thanks for reading because i felt an urge to express it afther watching your video's and have a great day.
I explain I'm aware of all of these things in the video and it's near impossible when you play one to two hours a day on the ladder to find a game where you play 'perfect' with a certain build against a certain race. The idea is to show you how to do the build, not me doing it 100% perfectly. I do agree it would be nice if I could get better footage though and that is something I'm working on. In the mean time I'm going to be uploading replays of the build being done better for people to watch and study if it's a build they want to do.
Thanks for the input and I do agree I should try and wait for better footage.
|
I used an adjusted version of this build, as I was worried my opponent would try some super early aggression, which he did. But I still did an alright job, and could have ended the game early quite easily in two points.
First, the initial double drop went well, but when I redropped in the main I looked away for a few seconds and lost all my marines to banelings... BAD. Could have ended the game there with any type of marine split.
Second, my first tank push I forgot siege, holy crap, haven't done that in a while... That push could have ended the game.
Last note I want to add... wow did my scv production suck, almost lost me the game >_< better work on that...
Anyway, for anyone looking for a replay as to what it looks like when you catch a zerg who took a greedy 3rd, this is how you punish him
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13409
|
On September 22 2011 13:02 DustinQQ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 02:59 spbelky wrote:On September 20 2011 23:14 DustinQQ wrote:
I've been using this build quite a lot on maps with close air position to zergs. It's really effective but I've never tried it with 1-1 upgrades. Usually I have my 2 medivacs and 16 marines around ~8 mins, with combat shield halfway done and attack 1/4th done. There's been a lot of times where i drop and the spire is halfway done, so i pick it off. i'm not sure how safe this build will be if Z goes mutalisk, but this build will transition nicely into tank marine with quick 3/3 bio upgrades. if you can get a replay of a FE build that has 16marines and 2 medivacs at 8minutes, i'd be very interested in seeing it, as well as pretty much every terran pro out there lol. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=232782here you go. doesnt get you 1-1 or two bunkers at natural, b/c you don't have enough units to support it after you load and leave. if you scout baneling all-in or w/e, delay starport and make bunkers at main. lift rax and wall off, etc. this is just my variation of the reactored starport, it also opens with 2 reaper. you secure your natural a bit later, but i think it's worth it for dropships a minute earlier. I feel like a zerg rushing to mutalisk would come and make the 9:30 min drops useless. i wasn't really paying attention in the rest of the game, but i'm just showing you the build to get marines and medivacs @ ~8 (8:23) with 16 marines and stim + combatshield halfway done. 1-0 starts soon after medivacs leave base. back on topic, this build is quite good, gets kind of sketchy if zerg rushes mutalisk because the dropships come out around 9:30.
/dislike
you have EXACTLY 16marines and 2 medivacs at 8:30, with +1 not even close :
your replay also may as well have been against a computer, then we wouldnt have had to witness the silly base trade scenario you put yourself into (against a platinum zerg? and you're masters?)
|
Hi Hansk, I have also been having trouble with early infestors (read: getting owned). So from the thread as I understand it you would suggest basically just don't do the drop and take a fast 3rd? The problem for me is sometimes its hard to find out that he has infestors before you execute the drop, specially since I typically don't want to burn more then 1 scan.
|
On September 23 2011 07:35 statikg wrote:
Hi Hansk, I have also been having trouble with early infestors (read: getting owned). So from the thread as I understand it you would suggest basically just don't do the drop and take a fast 3rd? The problem for me is sometimes its hard to find out that he has infestors before you execute the drop, specially since I typically don't want to burn more then 1 scan.
Yea sometimes its hard to gauge exactly what the zerg has before(or as) you drop. Something I've seen a lot of pro Terrans do (SeleCT) is drop all their marines in an obscure corner of the zerg main, and then while the marines are stimmed + raping drones (or tech if he put it there), you use one of your medivacs to fly ahead and scout for additional tech, or units.
|
I've used this build quite a lot now. I'm 800 points diamond, and this build is beaaast. I love the early economy and upgrades. Plays right into how I like it. Tyvm for this build!
|
On September 22 2011 04:16 pwadoc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 04:00 Skygrinder wrote:
I've encountered this twice and lost both times (I'm mid masters zerg).
Soooo, what is the best way to nullify it? Just ling baneling and good overlord placement? Lings alone are cost effective vs. marines as long as you keep even on upgrades up until the point where you both have 3/3. At that point, you need to be ready with better tech.
At that point, you would get adrenal glands and tehres no more upgrades for marines, so wouldnt it be better than 2/2 vs 2/2?
|
On September 23 2011 07:33 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 13:02 DustinQQ wrote:On September 21 2011 02:59 spbelky wrote:On September 20 2011 23:14 DustinQQ wrote:
I've been using this build quite a lot on maps with close air position to zergs. It's really effective but I've never tried it with 1-1 upgrades. Usually I have my 2 medivacs and 16 marines around ~8 mins, with combat shield halfway done and attack 1/4th done. There's been a lot of times where i drop and the spire is halfway done, so i pick it off. i'm not sure how safe this build will be if Z goes mutalisk, but this build will transition nicely into tank marine with quick 3/3 bio upgrades. if you can get a replay of a FE build that has 16marines and 2 medivacs at 8minutes, i'd be very interested in seeing it, as well as pretty much every terran pro out there lol. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=232782here you go. doesnt get you 1-1 or two bunkers at natural, b/c you don't have enough units to support it after you load and leave. if you scout baneling all-in or w/e, delay starport and make bunkers at main. lift rax and wall off, etc. this is just my variation of the reactored starport, it also opens with 2 reaper. you secure your natural a bit later, but i think it's worth it for dropships a minute earlier. I feel like a zerg rushing to mutalisk would come and make the 9:30 min drops useless. i wasn't really paying attention in the rest of the game, but i'm just showing you the build to get marines and medivacs @ ~8 (8:23) with 16 marines and stim + combatshield halfway done. 1-0 starts soon after medivacs leave base. back on topic, this build is quite good, gets kind of sketchy if zerg rushes mutalisk because the dropships come out around 9:30. /dislike you have EXACTLY 16marines and 2 medivacs at 8:30, with +1 not even close : your replay also may as well have been against a computer, then we wouldnt have had to witness the silly base trade scenario you put yourself into (against a platinum zerg? and you're masters?)
Isn't that what you asked for? You wanted me to show you a replay of 16 marines and 2 medivacs, and here it is. I'm just putting out another variation of it, without the 1-1 and much faster, albeit more risky.
It was my friend and I was just showing the build. I was focused on the BO and not the game. You can easily scout that and build more bunkers + seige tank in the main.
|
isn't that what you asked for? You wanted me to show you a replay of 16 marines and 2 medivacs, and here it is. I'm just putting out another variation of it, without the 1-1 and much faster, albeit more risky.
I think he meant you got them out at 8:30[instead of 8:00] 30 seconds is a very large amount of time.
Hi Hansk, I have also been having trouble with early infestors (read: getting owned). So from the thread as I understand it you would suggest basically just don't do the drop and take a fast 3rd? The problem for me is sometimes its hard to find out that he has infestors before you execute the drop, specially since I typically don't want to burn more then 1 scan.
Drop the marines in a corner of his base and zoom ahead with 1 marine stimmed to check for anything crazy. You do not want to get 16 marines and two drop ships fungaled to death or you will be majorly behind. If you think he has them ready for your drop don't drop, be glad he made his defenses and take it as an even game. The new patch nerfed infestors some so that should help.
|
Thanks for this build HansK - just switched to Terran and was looking for a solid base to build my TvZ on. Your build definitely does this in a safe and adaptable way. It is also a whole lot of fun to use in 2v2 and 3v3 games as well =)
|
On September 23 2011 08:44 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 04:16 pwadoc wrote:On September 22 2011 04:00 Skygrinder wrote:
I've encountered this twice and lost both times (I'm mid masters zerg).
Soooo, what is the best way to nullify it? Just ling baneling and good overlord placement? Lings alone are cost effective vs. marines as long as you keep even on upgrades up until the point where you both have 3/3. At that point, you need to be ready with better tech. At that point, you would get adrenal glands and tehres no more upgrades for marines, so wouldnt it be better than 2/2 vs 2/2?
Stim and combat shield. Actually, it's kinda cool how +1 attack, +1 carapace, stim, combat shield, adrenal glands and metabolic boost all kind of count for the same combat value. Basically, marines with any number of these upgrades against zerglings with an equal number of upgrades should be reasonably close, favoring the marines when you start dealing with > 30 supply armies.
However, 3/3 stim, medevac, combat shield marines >>>>>> 3/3 adrenal metabolic zerglings. Medevacs; the marine's ultimate upgrade.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
