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On September 26 2011 10:06 -Illusion- wrote:I've been doing this style for a while and I did your opening just to see how it goes. I did some variations but it's overall the same thing. Here you go, Me vs Vilehawk: http://drop.sc/37639. Pay close attention to the drops and what i do with squads of marines (tumors, ovies). It's always important to clear ovies in airways to their base so they cant see the drop coming  . PM for questions Another rep, here you go http://drop.sc/38082 Me vs tqAquanda
Hansk should post those two links in the original post, they are great.
http://drop.sc/38082
http://drop.sc/37639
3-3 marines at 18mins is super sick. Illusion also does a great job of showing how it's important to be persistent and aggressive with your drops, as well as how to defend with minimal units with proper sim city.
Also, sweet medivac micro. SO many hot pickups.
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On September 29 2011 07:47 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 10:06 -Illusion- wrote:I've been doing this style for a while and I did your opening just to see how it goes. I did some variations but it's overall the same thing. Here you go, Me vs Vilehawk: http://drop.sc/37639. Pay close attention to the drops and what i do with squads of marines (tumors, ovies). It's always important to clear ovies in airways to their base so they cant see the drop coming . PM for questions Another rep, here you go http://drop.sc/38082 Me vs tqAquanda Hansk should post those two links in the original post, they are great. http://drop.sc/38082http://drop.sc/376393-3 marines at 18mins is super sick. Illusion also does a great job of showing how it's important to be persistent and aggressive with your drops, as well as how to defend with minimal units with proper sim city. Also, sweet medivac micro. SO many hot pickups.
Done.
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The zerg can easily hold this with a handful of marines by scouting with overlords and pulling lings to the base. They swarm the marines 1 by 1 while they drop out of the medivacs (since the medivacs cant heal while unloading)
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Sounds a bit dodgy in the opening. What do you do if zerg all-ins? Not to be overly critical but the example vod is pretty useless alltogether. Even a single dropship with 0-0 would have done huge damage.
You might want to have a look at this build:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251486
Safer (reaper expand), and just as fast drops (same consept of the build except 1-0 and alot safer) But guess your build is safe if you scan, I understand that you knew your opponent, but anyway, kinda scary just to base everything on your previous games against him, and not to good of a showcase for the build.
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Agreed. Very often when I open this way (1rax gasless fe) the Zerg tries to baneling bust and it usually fails because I double bunker.
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theres this very popular oppener among the korean pros where, for example, you open with a 2 rax on shakuras(partial wall of for yer natural) into early expo with fast double dropship stim and 16 marines. its very similar and works really well. i think yer strat has potentional but it lacks the early harass it should and could have.
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On September 29 2011 21:36 Marooned wrote:Sounds a bit dodgy in the opening. What do you do if zerg all-ins? Not to be overly critical but the example vod is pretty useless alltogether. Even a single dropship with 0-0 would have done huge damage. You might want to have a look at this build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251486Safer (reaper expand), and just as fast drops (same consept of the build except 1-0 and alot safer) But guess your build is safe if you scan, I understand that you knew your opponent, but anyway, kinda scary just to base everything on your previous games against him, and not to good of a showcase for the build.
I can't make a VOD for every possible situation. The vod was intended to show what it does if you catch the zerg off guard in a ideal situation, not it doing little to no damage and playing a long standard macro game from there.
I uploaded better replays of me and another higher level player than me playing. As for the no early game pressure there is almost none that exist that does more then force 5-6 lings or a few seconds of drone pulls[bunker rush] that doesn't have any big risk to it and still gets the 1-1- drop out some what fast. That I know of, that is, if there is one please upload a replay of a 1-1 16 marine drop with two bunkers full of marines that does a big early pressure before that with little to no risk and still comes around 9:30 so I can steal the build, always looking to improve builds.
Keep in mind the entire reason I get 1-1 upgrades is to set up for the late game, not own him in a single drop.
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On September 29 2011 21:36 Marooned wrote:Sounds a bit dodgy in the opening. What do you do if zerg all-ins? Not to be overly critical but the example vod is pretty useless alltogether. Even a single dropship with 0-0 would have done huge damage. You might want to have a look at this build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251486Safer (reaper expand), and just as fast drops (same consept of the build except 1-0 and alot safer) But guess your build is safe if you scan, I understand that you knew your opponent, but anyway, kinda scary just to base everything on your previous games against him, and not to good of a showcase for the build.
I have a few replays of people trying to all-in me with the build. I'll scrap em up and upload them for you once I get back on computer
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On September 29 2011 21:36 Marooned wrote:Sounds a bit dodgy in the opening. What do you do if zerg all-ins? Not to be overly critical but the example vod is pretty useless alltogether. Even a single dropship with 0-0 would have done huge damage. You might want to have a look at this build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251486Safer (reaper expand), and just as fast drops (same consept of the build except 1-0 and alot safer) But guess your build is safe if you scan, I understand that you knew your opponent, but anyway, kinda scary just to base everything on your previous games against him, and not to good of a showcase for the build.
I finally got on the comp, here it is for you http://drop.sc/39094 Me vs tQDrone
PM me if you got any questions or just reply here
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I cant upload a replay right now only a VOD of a recent TvZ.
Like said earlier, the most important thing is being extremelly annoying with drops. I felt like I hurt his economy enough and also sniped his Spire thanks to a little multi tasking. The Zerg could never really get more than 2 bases Mining.
I played sloppy in the late game but I still pulled out a win lol.
http://twitch.tv/supremeck/b/296265360
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I liked this build initially, but ive found it doesn't work most of the time. the only time you get ahead from it is if the drop does a ton of damage - which is hard because most zergs by the 10 minute mark WILL have units even if you fast expo, and they just swarm your units as they unload.. theyll have a few mutas too so you lose 16 marines and a drop ship + later siege tech and the zerg has 3 full droned bases.
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I practiced this build a bit (vs. AI) and i had some trouble with the finetuning of this build. It seems, that if i go 21 2x rax 23 2x gas, i am a bit short on gas and cant afford the upgrades as early, that they finish when i drop their base (about 10:15ish).
21 2x Gas 23 2x Rax works better but cuts in that early marines - is this a huge problem? I didnt tried this build on ladder yet (im also just Plat EU).
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If you don't mind me asking, but what league are these?
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On October 03 2011 20:24 Chaggi wrote:
If you don't mind me asking, but what league are these?
Masters
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On October 03 2011 14:05 necrOtix wrote:
I liked this build initially, but ive found it doesn't work most of the time. the only time you get ahead from it is if the drop does a ton of damage - which is hard because most zergs by the 10 minute mark WILL have units even if you fast expo, and they just swarm your units as they unload.. theyll have a few mutas too so you lose 16 marines and a drop ship + later siege tech and the zerg has 3 full droned bases.
You are missing an integral part of the strategy and thus the matchup. You don't just drop into anything, you drop if the way is clear, if there is anything sitting there waiting for you other then a queen and maybe 1 spine tops, you abort the drop and maybe go drop the natural or somthing, basically just keep him off his game, if there are mutas and units, immediately go drop beside the side of the base so you don't lose everything.
When a million zerglings swarm your marines, even if you are up against a wall, thats not good enough, shoot the lings, but once they are up against your marines, pick up and leave. You need an amazing choke to beat 30+ lings with just marines, like being stuck behind a mineral line with a spawning pool to your back amazing. Being up against the side of the main just isnt good enough and you need to pick up and move on.
If you just trade your first 2medivacs 16 marine drop for 30lings, you are behind because you have invested so much into them. If you trade them for 5mutas and 10lings, then maybe your ok. But pretty much if you can't wedge yourself into a nice spot between zerg buildings, when you see like 30lings coming for you, you have to pick up and go somewhere else once they get the surround. By this time your next 2medivac drop should be ready so get that drop going, have the first one fall back, and when the lings go respond to your second drop, then hit them with the first drop again.
This type of multitasking and forcing the zerg to respond to you in multiple places is how to succeed in TvZ in general, but especially with this strategy do not throw your first drop away just trading with lings!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On October 03 2011 14:05 necrOtix wrote:
I liked this build initially, but ive found it doesn't work most of the time. the only time you get ahead from it is if the drop does a ton of damage - which is hard because most zergs by the 10 minute mark WILL have units even if you fast expo, and they just swarm your units as they unload.. theyll have a few mutas too so you lose 16 marines and a drop ship + later siege tech and the zerg has 3 full droned bases.
That's not how the build works, you drop the units in a spot where he can't spot and thus surround your units. If he knows your drop is coming you drop on different fronts, or you don't drop at all and harass the front and pick up if he has too much. If he's fully prepared to crush your drop 100% then he hasn't been very greedy and you just go home and do not drop and you lose nothing.
You'll always lose the game if you just drop the units and let 16 marines die and 2 medivacs for nothing, this build is meant for higher level players for sure.
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Hey do you have any more replays vs 2 base baneling allins? Seems difficult to hold off with pure marines. Especially if you don't see it coming.
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On October 07 2011 04:53 Unfeared wrote:
Hey do you have any more replays vs 2 base baneling allins? Seems difficult to hold off with pure marines. Especially if you don't see it coming.
I don't yet all I can say is you need three bunkers and 2 ebays placed in correct position depending on the map with maybe a few marines on the high ground and make sure you target banelings.
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I've never had any success with double medivac drop.
1) How do I find out where I can drop? All zerg has to do is see medivacs and they're wary of drops. You can't exactly poke around with dropships as it's pretty obvious what you're doing. Also stuff like buildings/overlords are spotters.
2) Vs lings you want a small area but the small area makes banelings more effective. So basically lings/banelings cover each other's weakesses.
3) The double drop with 1/1 upgrades is probably slower and Zerg will have tons of units/tech out already.
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On October 07 2011 11:10 vnlegend wrote:
I've never had any success with double medivac drop.
1) How do I find out where I can drop? All zerg has to do is see medivacs and they're wary of drops. You can't exactly poke around with dropships as it's pretty obvious what you're doing. Also stuff like buildings/overlords are spotters.
2) Vs lings you want a small area but the small area makes banelings more effective. So basically lings/banelings cover each other's weakesses.
3) The double drop with 1/1 upgrades is probably slower and Zerg will have tons of units/tech out already.
1. You need to use a scan, or drop in a random corner of their base [it's not possible to have lings at every corner of their base waiting for the drop]. If they have great defense you can split them up and start multi prong harassment.
2. If he only has a few banelings they are easily targeted down, if he has a bunch of zerglings and banelings at the time of the drop chances are very high he was not very greedy and you're in a great spot to set up for the late game. I can't stress enough as the majority of people who read this build think of it as some form of all in, but it's actually meant to force a late game situation and only end the game if they were super greedy.
3. If he has tons of units/tech out and your drops are really able to do zero damage even with ideal decision making multi tasking and micro chances are very high you're even with him and you can play out a later game with amazing upgrades and infrastructure.
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EPT
