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[G] aXa's ZvP: Revisiting a Nestea's build

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-06 15:46:53
September 05 2011 17:25 GMT
#1
Without any kind of further introduction, behold the 3 spine push into nydus !

[image loading]

Okay i'm pretty sure everyone remember this awesome GSL game between Nestea and Anypro. The idea of this build was to get a very quick lair after scouting a protoss FFE, then use overlord pooping creep to build 3 proxy spine and thus take out the nexus.

But before getting into details, let's talk about the match up and the spirit of the build a little bit.

I'm currently in a guide-writting-spree, this one will be the 5th i wrote and the 3rd for this month alone. If you didn't read them already, definitely check out:

My ZvZ guide
My ZvT guide

With this ZvP guide, the aXa's trilogy guide is about to complete. If you are wondering why in the seven hell i'm dedicating so much time to Starcraft 2 right now, let say the waiting for Diablo III is killing me so much i need to recycle some of this energy into something about gaming

I enjoin everyone not to take this guide as seriously as they did with my other guides. It is mostly a fun build, kind of cheesy, which will help you out to get rid of ladder anxiety.

Because sometimes, laddering is nothing but using build that will increase your win ratio. Sometimes, laddering is about having fun with stupid strategy. This one is definitely one of those.

I consider ZvP as one of the most difficult match up for Zerg, and to be specifics, i consider forge expand as one of the strongest build in the protoss arsenal.
I know that statistics prove me wrong, as Zerg have overall a better win ratio in this match up overall. I know as well that a turtling protoss using a lot of cannons and a quick expansion rate is near to unbeatable.

I don't know if it is bad luck, but i always end up against that kind of protoss, cannoning the whole map for an hour long game of slow agony.. And there is nothing you can do about it.
And the first step of this disgusting style is obviously, a forge expand. There is currently a lot of maps where forge expand is really, really strong.

For the last few weeks, i decided to work on the 3 Spine Push Nestea the great had enlighten us with months ago. I wanted to "cannon rush" and cheese protoss too. I was looking for payback.

First of all, i realized that it was impossible to do exactly what Nestea did: Killing the 2nd nexus with spinecrawler. Dual sight has a weird architecture and is not in the ladder map pool. On every single map of the ladder, you will not be able to reach the nexus because of cannons.

My first reaction was to simply try to overrun the protoss with mass zergling as soon as the wall was down. Of course, any smart protoss will add some cannons and buildings to fill the holes, and quickly i ended up dead.

Improving a build is an easy task as long as you ask yourself the right questions. And so i asked myself: After the 3 spine push, what kind of tech have i enable, and what kind of further tech do i need to get through a protoss wall? The answer was so obvious.


BWAARRRRGH
[image loading]


Overlords and scouting

Overlords placement is an integrant part of a Zerg build order. The 3 Spine Push into Nydus rely entirely on overlords, and so they rightfully deserve the first part of this guide.

Where you do need them
In order to execute this build, you'll need to set 2 to 3 overlords around your opponent's base.

In the front:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

And in the rear:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

How to get there in time

First of all, here is a quick list of maps where you can expect a FFE:
-Tal'Darim Altar
-Antiga Shipyard
-Shakuras Plateau
-Nezarim Crypt

(I'm not sure about searing crater and Backwater Gulch or Abyssal Cavern, as they are my veto)

Here is a graph sample on Tal'Darim illustrating how you should send your overlord:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

On each map the process is the same: Send the 2 initial overlord in the center of the map. Drone scout at 10 food on big maps like Tal'Darim, or 12 on smaller maps like Shakuras Plateau. As soon as your drone has spotted the FFE, redirect your overlords in the right locations. If your opponent is not going for a FFE, well, the build is standard enough to switch directly into an usual game.

Executing the build

The build order

+ Show Spoiler +
9/10: 2nd Overlord
15/18: Extractor
15/18: Spawning pool
16/18: 3rd Overlord
16/18: 3 sets of zergling

-Spend your next larvae on drone production

-With the first 100 gas, start your Lair.

-With the second set of 100 gas, start zergling speed.

-When your Lair is half way or 2/3 complete (depending on the map) send 3 drones to build the proxy spine crawler.

-When your Lair is done, build a queen.

-Start zergling production with queen injects. Build an expand with the extra minerals

-Build a nydus worm as soon as you reach 200 gas.

-Nydus the protoss main and flood him with zergling 1) Target the probe, 2) deny the stargate 3) kill the nexus


Using properly the surprise effect

Surprise effect is the most important factor with this strategy.

This is why you should always follow the following rules:

-Never start Lair if the probe is in your base. Use the initial ling to deny it !

-Never build the spinecrawler in range of the protoss building. You need to stay out of sight ! To gain some time, move your overlord when spinecrawlers are halfway complete and start pooping creep at the right location. Then move your spinecrawlers.

-Use only the 6 initial ling to defend your spinecrawlers. Rally every other zergling to your nydus worm in your base.

-Try to slightly move your overlord if you see a pylon spotting the initial nydus location attempt.

Replays

As it is not a meta-game build, let's be quick and jump right into replays:
[url blocked]
If megaupload doesn't work, here is fileserve:
http://www.fileserve.com/file/h2URvG2/SCRushRep.zip


Have fun ! And do not forget, with this kind of build, you HAVE to be BM ! After successfully nydusing your opponent, a little "noob" or "bwahahahaha" is always welcome


Blog

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=283121
loving it
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada271 Posts
September 05 2011 17:34 GMT
#2
"The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later."

I can't download the replay pack
Anyways, would you recommend to place your expand earlier in order to seem like your expanding at a normal time? Cause otherwise one base zerg is pretty obvious >.<
Stay gold.
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 05 2011 17:39 GMT
#3
I uploaded it with fileserve. As long as you deny the probe with the initial ling, he won't see it coming. i don't recommand an early expand. You need every single drone !
tsarnicky
Profile Joined May 2011
104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-05 18:38:34
September 05 2011 18:36 GMT
#4
looks legit, QQ u got me interested in 1v1s again... no time for that.

seems pretty reliant on the toss not rushing SG too fast/not scouting tho? one phoenix and all your ovies/whole build goes down the toilet?
good macro... all is good... perfect -oGsMC
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 05 2011 18:39 GMT
#5
Usually you can deny the stargate with the nydus. I have never seen a stargate fast enough to deny the overlords.
Soluhwin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1287 Posts
September 05 2011 19:00 GMT
#6
It feels like this build is entirely based on your opponent not hiding a probe/sending a second probe to scout you after the initial one is chased out. Not seeing that natural and the protoss should prepare for both a one base nydus and roach bust. That being said though, it is a great cheese, well played.
I put the sexy in dyslexia.
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 05 2011 19:02 GMT
#7
Well it's a cheese and i have to be honest, if the nydus is denied, you are pretty much screwed. I did not lost with it yet though.
tsarnicky
Profile Joined May 2011
104 Posts
September 05 2011 19:07 GMT
#8
kinda related comment: I think it'd be good if more 'pseudo-cheeses' were used by zerg, cuz as it is now t/p can essentially count on the z going macro/10min no rush. so if zs would use more builds like this t/p would have to play more defensively/ delay their expos.
good macro... all is good... perfect -oGsMC
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
September 05 2011 19:25 GMT
#9
zerg plays 10 mins no rush?
that was may be 3-4 months ago
Grapefruit
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany439 Posts
September 05 2011 20:02 GMT
#10
On September 06 2011 04:25 freetgy wrote:
zerg plays 10 mins no rush?
that was may be 3-4 months ago


What?

Please elaborate.
Starcraft 2 is funny, everybody picks the race, which he considers to be the weakest. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
awakenx
Profile Joined May 2011
United States341 Posts
September 05 2011 21:10 GMT
#11
omfg i remember that game. my zvp is suffering now I may just try this for lulz :D

btw fileserve is really annoying with all those ads
WorstMicroNA
Voldron
Profile Joined February 2011
Greece91 Posts
September 05 2011 21:20 GMT
#12
sup DUDE!!! long time no see. I would pwn this strategy , too bad i quit sc2 :p
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
September 05 2011 21:40 GMT
#13
Im working on my own nydus build with nyduses and hydras, its great you already have one figured out. And dont quit dude ^^ its a great game!
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 05 2011 21:53 GMT
#14
Never said i was quitting sc2 !Just need D3 as well
ViperaViRuS
Profile Joined May 2011
United States82 Posts
September 05 2011 22:37 GMT
#15
On September 06 2011 04:07 tsarnicky wrote:
kinda related comment: I think it'd be good if more 'pseudo-cheeses' were used by zerg, cuz as it is now t/p can essentially count on the z going macro/10min no rush. so if zs would use more builds like this t/p would have to play more defensively/ delay their expos.


...? This is specifically a cheese, and realistically, there are many all-ins for the Zerg vs Protoss match-up. I fail to see where this comment is coming from? There are many different cheeses available to a Zerg, mostly varying from early pool, to 2 hatch all-ins, or early roach+ling all-in aggression.
"CHILL GET OUT" -NaNiwa
GleaM
Profile Joined June 2011
United States207 Posts
September 05 2011 23:47 GMT
#16
Not to be troll/QQ, BUT

I would love for this guy aXa, who comes out with very imaginative builds, to put his cheesey/gimmicky creativity into finding some less all-in, niche-y, GOOD stuff that I could actually use in my play! I have no desire to 9pool in all of my matchups, so I usually look to other players.
Tuthur
Profile Joined July 2010
France985 Posts
September 06 2011 18:06 GMT
#17
On September 06 2011 08:47 GleaM wrote:
Not to be troll/QQ, BUT

I would love for this guy aXa, who comes out with very imaginative builds, to put his cheesey/gimmicky creativity into finding some less all-in, niche-y, GOOD stuff that I could actually use in my play! I have no desire to 9pool in all of my matchups, so I usually look to other players.


Actually if you had read the OP, this build is actually a 10/12scout15gas15pool that you choose to do ONLY if you scout a FFE, thus allowing you to safely switch back to a normal build if it's not the case, I tried it 5 times today and won all 5 games (the last time I didn't win right away, I managed to kill of the nexus then used a roach/hydra/ling/nydus in the midgame to end it) so it's actually pretty effective and a nice build to throw in a BoX.

An important part seems to be the initial position and the relocation of the 3 spine crawlers at the front, it seems you need a bit of practice to get the correct distance to the wall on each map. Also if the protoss has good control on his scouting probe it can be a pain to tech to lair.

Overall it punishes very well FFE and I'll probably use it from time to time to catch these nasty protoss off-guard Good guide aXa!
Amaterasu1234
Profile Joined November 2010
United States317 Posts
September 06 2011 19:12 GMT
#18
On September 06 2011 08:47 GleaM wrote:
Not to be troll/QQ, BUT

I would love for this guy aXa, who comes out with very imaginative builds, to put his cheesey/gimmicky creativity into finding some less all-in, niche-y, GOOD stuff that I could actually use in my play! I have no desire to 9pool in all of my matchups, so I usually look to other players.


His recent zvt guide is REALLY good! It even starts with a FE!! And works very, very well.
DuncanIdaho
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States465 Posts
September 06 2011 20:02 GMT
#19
I wonder how a 10pool adaptation would do, as I find 10pool to be my go-to build vs protoss thesedays, with 6 lings at 12,13,14 supply, into mass droning behind into a roach switch. Perhaps instead of the roach transition, a nydus transition, with 1st 100 gas to lair? I don't know, just an idea.
The spice must flow... Grammar lesson: "than" is used for quantity comparisons, "then" is used for chronological statements. The next forum user who says, "I'd do such and such, THAN I'd do such and such else," is gonna make me cry...
Turo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada333 Posts
September 06 2011 20:06 GMT
#20
Could you please not center format your guide, out makes it hard to read!
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