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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On July 02 2012 10:27 Sega92 wrote:
diamond terran question
when is the best time to move out against zerg, i 1 rax fe and move out after i have 2-3 tanks (~10 minutes or so) but even with good positioning the zerg will still over run everything i have leaving me back at square 1 and it usually goes downhill fast from there
I tend to move out when I'm doing drops of some sort. Just to get a better position like at a xel naga
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On July 02 2012 10:27 Sega92 wrote:
diamond terran question
when is the best time to move out against zerg, i 1 rax fe and move out after i have 2-3 tanks (~10 minutes or so) but even with good positioning the zerg will still over run everything i have leaving me back at square 1 and it usually goes downhill fast from there
Early-Midgame tank pushes fell out of the meta a while ago. I don't think that you should continue doing them. This is because of the emphasis on upgraded lings which rip through small amounts of tank (2-4) and any marines and hellions you have. You are much better off learning a new build order.
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United States4883 Posts
On July 02 2012 10:27 Sega92 wrote:
diamond terran question
when is the best time to move out against zerg, i 1 rax fe and move out after i have 2-3 tanks (~10 minutes or so) but even with good positioning the zerg will still over run everything i have leaving me back at square 1 and it usually goes downhill fast from there
I've found better luck with moving out earlier and earlier against zerg. I've found that (like in ZvP), zerg is generally all droned up and prepared to hold any push by ~9:30. So I began doing a hellion/marine/marauder push at 9:00. Then I began doing a CS marine attack at 8:00. Then a naked marine push at 7:00. All in all, it seems like the earlier I move out, the better my position in the latter parts of the game are. Zerg is forced to make units instead of drones...terran uses mostly minerals to attack, leaving all the gas open for tech.
The other alternative is moving out later and later. People have been skewing towards mech a lot more recently, getting 3 really fast CCs then just sitting on 3 bases and waiting to max out on hefty mech units (push moves out around ~170 food). This generally comes at about 14-15 minutes, much later than the average marine/tank push.
I hope this helps!
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Does anyone have a link or can quickly write down a BO for the 2base siege tank timing that's been used occasionally in the GSL for TvP?
Thanks =)
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I've currently been doing a cc first into 4 rax combat shield push tvz while taking a 3rd as I push out but after that I'm unsure how to transition into standard marine tank. Is there any chance someone could give me the build order for a similar push.
I'm just totally lost when it comes down to deciding my later gas timings and engis so I can actually afford upgrades and tanks.
Thanks
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In TvP what do you do against a protoss you goes nexus first?
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^triple orbital is one response i've seen taeja and other pro terrans do.
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On July 02 2012 18:12 Qibla wrote:
In TvP what do you do against a protoss you goes nexus first?
If you already have gas, then you can try to go for some 2 or 3 rax timing. Otherwise you can go for a fast 3rd OC for tripple mule early.
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Hi guys. I am a terran player who is in silver league. I am only doing MMM and am not familiar with ghosts. Can anyone give me tips on my tvp? Here is a replay.
http://drop.sc/212803
I would also appreciate any good videos that show how to use ghosts.
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I just started playing again after giving sc2 up after season 2. At that point I was a pretty weak masters player on NA server. Now I'm even worse and just keep getting rolled by toss death balls. I'm apologizing in advance if this has all been covered before.
Standard situation is 20 minutes into a game, we are both near max or max supply and the big balls converge. Toss has lots of zealots, some stalkers, some archons and plenty of ht's and an observer. I have bio ball with ghosts and medivacs. Assume upgrades are the same for both sides.
Typically, i stim in, usually not the best concave in the world and then try to micro some decent emps which is not usually successful, my ball dissolves and it's game.
Can anyone describe how they do it the best? How many medivacs should I have? I heard about 6 was right given a large supply. Do ghosts lead the way to emp quickly? I do but they tend to die before I can get off enough emp's on the ht's. I have them on a separate hotkey. How many ghosts sound right?. I usually have about 8 or so. Do you select the ghost hotkey and then spam E's around. Do you hit the archons 3 times each? Do you lead with marauders as they take much more damage than the flimsy marines?
Again, sorry for the lameness of this post but I'm sure other weak terrans could learn a lot by someone explaining the process.
Thanks for reading
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United States4883 Posts
On July 03 2012 03:10 Bonesy wrote:
I just started playing again after giving sc2 up after season 2. At that point I was a pretty weak masters player on NA server. Now I'm even worse and just keep getting rolled by toss death balls. I'm apologizing in advance if this has all been covered before.
Standard situation is 20 minutes into a game, we are both near max or max supply and the big balls converge. Toss has lots of zealots, some stalkers, some archons and plenty of ht's and an observer. I have bio ball with ghosts and medivacs. Assume upgrades are the same for both sides.
Typically, i stim in, usually not the best concave in the world and then try to micro some decent emps which is not usually successful, my ball dissolves and it's game.
Can anyone describe how they do it the best? How many medivacs should I have? I heard about 6 was right given a large supply. Do ghosts lead the way to emp quickly? I do but they tend to die before I can get off enough emp's on the ht's. I have them on a separate hotkey. How many ghosts sound right?. I usually have about 8 or so. Do you select the ghost hotkey and then spam E's around. Do you hit the archons 3 times each? Do you lead with marauders as they take much more damage than the flimsy marines?
Again, sorry for the lameness of this post but I'm sure other weak terrans could learn a lot by someone explaining the process.
Thanks for reading
LastShadow covered how to dissect the protoss deathball in one of his vlogs before he deleted all of them. It's a complicated process and really hard to pull off effectively (whereas protoss can 1-a and win most of the time), but it goes something like this:
1) SNIPE THE OBSERVER - use vikings to snipe the observer...you can kind of towards his army and scan and you'll pretty much always snipe it. If you don't have time, just make sure you use ghosts to snipe it.
2) LET THE PROTOSS COME TO YOU - in these max versus max armies, you should keep your army back with your medivacs in the back. You should NOT stim into a protoss deathball. Ever.
3) SNIPE ANY TEMPLARS WITH GHOSTS - snipe/EMP any templars that are leading. Remember that the cloaked ghosts are useless if you didn't snipe the observer. After you snipe templars, try to set you ghosts in a line in front of your army to mess with the chargelot AI.
4) TARGET COLOSSUS - shift-click the colossus with vikings and let them micro themselves. You can also focus fire with cloaked ghosts to take them down faster.
5) LET THE ZEALOTS CHARGE INTO YOU - Let the zealots burn charge before you split. Make sure marauders are up front to soak up the damage, but have primarily marines (1:3 ratio) in your composition. After all the zealots burn their charge, start kiting with your entire bioball. When you kill like 70-80% of the zealots, split your army into 3 parts to make a good arc.
6) BLANKET EVERYTHING IN EMPS - if you're fairly sure you got most of the templars and the protoss starts charging into you, start EMPing everything particularly the archons/sentries.
In the end, you line of defense should look like:
Cloaked ghosts leading, sniping templars and EMPing, setting themselves up in a line; bioball behind with marauders in front, medivacs all the way behind your ball; and vikings overhead sniping the colossus. This is all contingent on sniping that observer at the beginning!! KEEPING YOUR GHOSTS ALIVE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART!!
I hope this helps!
EDIT: The final endgame army generally looks like 6-8 medivacs, ~10 vikings, ~8 full-energy ghosts, bioball with a 3:1 marine/marauder ratio, and 2 medivacs loaded with marauders dropping somewhere in his base.
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On July 02 2012 18:12 Qibla wrote:
In TvP what do you do against a protoss you goes nexus first?
While you can take a quick 3rd and go double ups, you don't really need to. Nexus first doesn't put them that far ahead that you either have to all-in or take a third, most of the time you can play standard. Something you'd want to look at though is for a 6 gate follow up which is very popular after nex first because their econ will be ahead or on par with yours.
On July 02 2012 13:46 OCWTO wrote:
I've currently been doing a cc first into 4 rax combat shield push tvz while taking a 3rd as I push out but after that I'm unsure how to transition into standard marine tank. Is there any chance someone could give me the build order for a similar push.
I'm just totally lost when it comes down to deciding my later gas timings and engis so I can actually afford upgrades and tanks.
Thanks
You can take a third, go double ups and get medivacs. Add up to 6 rax and then get 2 additional factories and get all your addons. You generally want to get meds and ups before tanks unless you see a lair ling bling roach bust.
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United States4883 Posts
On July 02 2012 13:46 OCWTO wrote:
I've currently been doing a cc first into 4 rax combat shield push tvz while taking a 3rd as I push out but after that I'm unsure how to transition into standard marine tank. Is there any chance someone could give me the build order for a similar push.
I'm just totally lost when it comes down to deciding my later gas timings and engis so I can actually afford upgrades and tanks.
Thanks
I usually do a variation on this without combat shield...haven't played around with getting combat shield yet. Generally, my push comes around 7:30 and, if the zerg player didn't take an early gas, almost always kills off the 3rd. I think the combat shields push is another minute later at ~8:30 (when zerg should, FOR SURE, have zergling speed).
Anyway, I just build a 3rd CC with the built up minerals I have and add all 4 geysers at 7:30 when I push. From there, I spend the first 100 on a factory, then get 2 techlabs + 2 ebays and start upgrades. After the starport is down, I add 2 reactors and start marauder production. This all adds up to a strong attack timing at 12:00 with 2-4 medivacs, 20-36 marines (depending on if you retained your earlier marines), and 4-6 marauders with stim/CS and +1/+1.
I know your build will have to adjust some things like staggering the gases, getting the CC a little later, etc, but all in all, I feel like you should be able to hit about the same timing. From there, secure your 3rd and start tank production when you get geysers 5 and 6 up, build 3 more barracks for a total of 7. When you start to see hive tech, I suggest adding on 2 more factories and switching tank production to thor production as you transition into sky terran on 4+ bases.
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United States4883 Posts
On July 02 2012 18:12 Qibla wrote:
In TvP what do you do against a protoss you goes nexus first?
Something I feel fairly comfortable doing is just building 3 CCs off of 1 marine, then continuing on the normal 3rax path except getting gases faster and going for double ups instead of single ups. If you haven't been hit with a huge mass gate attack by ~9:30, expand to your 3rd.
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that was a great demonstration
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High masters Terran here, as of lately I've had major issues when it comes to Protoss cheese. Was wondering, when opening with a 1 rax fast expand, how do you hold off the following:
- 2 gate proxy
- Void ray all in
- Blink stalker all in
- Early 4 gate where units run past bunkers
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On July 03 2012 13:20 BuffloBEAST wrote:
High masters Terran here, as of lately I've had major issues when it comes to Protoss cheese. Was wondering, when opening with a 1 rax fast expand, how do you hold off the following:
- 2 gate proxy
- Void ray all in
- Blink stalker all in
- Early 4 gate where units run past bunkers
-vs a 2 gate proxy build a bunker near your mineral fields. Marines in bunkers out range cannons.
-vs a void ray all in be sure to put all your marines on 1 control group and target the void ray first. I know this sounds obvious but it's something a lot of people forget to do when they go into crises management mode.
-vs 4 gate, if you don't see a nexus at the nat by the 5-6 min you know they are all inning so you just put down as many bunkers as you need. Even if it takes 4-5 bunkers that's fine because once you beat their push you auto win. The trick here is scouting tho. You need to see when their nexus goes up. I always try to keep my scouting scv alive and put it in a corner of the map, then scout with it again at the 5-6 min mark to see if they have expanded or not.
hope this helps
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On July 03 2012 13:20 BuffloBEAST wrote:
High masters Terran here, as of lately I've had major issues when it comes to Protoss cheese. Was wondering, when opening with a 1 rax fast expand, how do you hold off the following:
- 2 gate proxy
- Void ray all in
- Blink stalker all in
- Early 4 gate where units run past bunkers
against 2gate proxy add another rax and get bunker asap
blink stalker allin get earlier marauders
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On July 03 2012 13:26 procrastibation wrote:
Marines in bunkers out range cannons.
uhh, cannons have 7 range. marines in bunkers have 5+1=6 range. even a marauder in a bunker has the *same* range as a cannon. there is no unit that you can put in a bunker that will outrange a cannon. also, that post just said proxy 2gate, so i dont think hes looking for advice against a zealot/cannon push. making a bunker in the minerals is a good idea though.
more directly on topic: against a blink all-in i try to save a scan to snipe the obs if possible, and a bunker or two in my main if i scout it in time
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United States4883 Posts
On July 03 2012 13:20 BuffloBEAST wrote:
High masters Terran here, as of lately I've had major issues when it comes to Protoss cheese. Was wondering, when opening with a 1 rax fast expand, how do you hold off the following:
- 2 gate proxy
- Void ray all in
- Blink stalker all in
- Early 4 gate where units run past bunkers
Assuming you're going for the standard 3rax play after 1rax expanding:
2-GATE PROXY - Always important, just send your initial scout along a path where proxies are common. This, in many cases, can catch the proxy way early and allow you to respond. The response is to just throw down a bunker in your mineral line ASAP and make sure you build your buildings to be covered by the bunker. From here all you need is a critical mass of marines from 1-2 barracks.
VOID RAY ALL-IN - Warning signs should be 2 early geysers and a lot of chrono boost saved up. For this, just make sure you have a bunker at the front, rally to your ramp. If a void ray or two comes wandering into the back of your base, you can pull the appropriate number of marines (~5 marines per void ray) while sending a few SCVs to your bunker ready to repair. The key is not to worry too much about the void rays, just make sure they get focused down first. For everything else, you can just pull SCVs to defend without much economic damage.
BLINKER STALKER ALL-IN - Warning signs are 2 early geysers and a lot of chronoboost spent on probes (this is also the general setup of a DT opening). When you're aware of the all-in, build a bunker at your natural and a bunker halfway between your main CC and the blink ledge. Rally to your ramp. Just respond to wherever the blink-in is with your marines, making sure you have SCVs to repair bunkers. All you have to do is defend until you can get stim/medivacs/marauders. Once you have that, the game is over.
EARLY 4-GATE - Of course the scout time is 5:45-6:00 for the 4 gates. Have a bunker up and ready, possibly building a second one based on your scouting response. If he runs by, you can pull SCVs to block your ramp and sandwich him. Another good thing to have is a supply depot walloff at the top of your ramp. I usually build my first 3 supply depots here so I can have a wall as well as deny any early pressure from running around in my main base. This should honestly be a lot easier than a standard 4-gate if you're prepared. If you get that sandwich and the stalkers can't kite, the game is over right then and there.
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EPT
