EPTPlus opponent loves doing cheap builds etc.
I know TL can help but I dont think I'm worthy.EDIT: I also remember everything Day9 said in regards to macro
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 289
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serialcheater
12 Posts
Plus opponent loves doing cheap builds etc. I know TL can help but I dont think I'm worthy.EDIT: I also remember everything Day9 said in regards to macro | ||
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Omgoodnessess
United States61 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 03 2012 20:19 Omgoodnessess wrote: How does everyone prevent creep spread in TvZ when the zerg opts for a muta opening? I can somewhat deny creep early before mutas pop, but when mutas are out, it contains me for a little while while the zerg spreads creep like crazy. (2/3 of map or more.) When i push out because of a timing, 2/2 upgrades or upgrading to hive, my push is super slow cuz of creep. Because of that, the zerg finishes his hive and already getting ultras/broodlords. I also feel like i can't ignore the creep and just push cuz a muta bling ling army rolls my army cuz they're so fast on creep. Try going more marine heavy with only a few tanks (~40 marines/3 tanks). Also focus on doing multipronged drops. If you do a drop on one side and his mutas clean it up, and a drop on the other side and his lings clean it up, you can clear off a ton of that creep very suddenly with only a small group of 5 or 6 marines. The reason why most muta play has been phased out of competitive play is because the creep spread isn't done THAT early, so ~10:00 timing attacks with marine/tank were really brutal. Plus, muta/ling/bling is infinitely weaker in a straight-up engagement against a ton of a well-split marines. My suggestion: when you see mutas pop out, get VERY aggressive, defend you base with only a minimum number of turrets and reinforcement marines. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 03 2012 17:06 serialcheater wrote: I'm sorry I don't know how to select the correct strategy, everything I do off the 1 rax FE and it's freakign me out! I swear I knew how to play the game (went from diamond league to gold league and struggling to get back). For instance for a timing attack vs Z or P do I get the Combat Shield or Stim? Plus I don't know how to react to the scouting and subtle scouting but I got to learn how to play the game properly. Plus opponent loves doing cheap builds etc. I know TL can help but I dont think I'm worthy.EDIT: I also remember everything Day9 said in regards to macro The more and more I've played this game, the more I've started to realize that, while a barracks focused play is generally better for your macro and in general stronger, the 1-1-1 variations are much much easier. Try doing a 1rax FE in every matchup followed by some kind of 1-1-1 setup. For example, in TvP, you can expand, build 2 reactor barracks + 1 techlab fact + 1 techlab starport (assuming he's not 4-gating). This will give you a really nice 9:30-10:00 push with a ton of unupgraded marines + tanks + banshees. If you don't win immediately, you can just followup with a solid contain and expand/get upgrades. You can even transition back into MMM with ghosts. For zerg, you can go for the mass hellion/banshee play that's popular, adding a 3rd and a bunch of rax. You can followup with a fairly strong MMM push ~12:00, using the hellions and banshees to harass and abate creep spread. So anywayz, just try some 1-1-1ing ideas. The only real weakness is in the super early game because you won't have the marine count you would going 3-5 rax immediately. | ||
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serialcheater
12 Posts
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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-FoX
United States479 Posts
On July 03 2012 13:20 BuffloBEAST wrote: High masters Terran here, as of lately I've had major issues when it comes to Protoss cheese. Was wondering, when opening with a 1 rax fast expand, how do you hold off the following: - 2 gate proxy - Void ray all in - Blink stalker all in - Early 4 gate where units run past bunkers I'm going to speak specifically to the blink stalker all-in as I face that one most often when I 1 rax FE and have taken a significant amount of time to figure out how to deal with it. First thing to note is his gas timings, if you see a pretty early second gas, there's the chance for cheese. That's basically the first warning sign. The second thing is that you'll want to note the location of his 3rd pylon with your initial scout, this gives you a good idea of where to scan when you decide you want to take a peek into his base. Third, the scan around 6:00 is essential. This will tell you what kind of cheese he is going most likely, the twilight council will be placed and if you spot it (with knowledge of where his 3rd pylon is it's likely you'll be able to find his tech), it will be researching blink. Fouth, send an SCV scout out at around 7:00 to look for proxy pylons and a mass of stalkers outside your main. If you see this, it's a blink stalker all-in, put up bunkers in your main. Fifth, if it's a blink stalker with observer all-in (which it usually is), the observer ends up arriving at your base around 7:50-8:20 (depends on map distance). Be diligent with your marine spread around your base. If you snipe the observer, you win. Lastly, if you aren't fully prepared for it, pull workers as soon as he blinks into your main and only engage with workers + your army, otherwise you have no chance. Hope this helps. | ||
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Opasmea
United Kingdom34 Posts
My builds: 1 rax expo on 4 player maps. 2 rax on 2 player maps. I try to get an early third, but when I take an early third I am vulnerable to ling/bane/roach all ins. I do not know the exact timings but when do I scout to try and see if the Zerg is going all in? I feel very uneasy at almost every point in the match up, and the Zergling/Infestor turtle with spines and spores negates my drop heavy style, I also feel very scared moving out to try to pressure expansions because creep is quit hard to deny. My second question is what do I do against a zerg that makes spines and spores to shut down drops? I also find it very hard to scout what the zerg is doing in the late game, whether he is going for broodlords or ultras, since it is very different tech paths to kill these units. Any help would be much appreciated. | ||
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ultimania92
United States30 Posts
TvZ, I can't figure out what went wrong here. Not aggressive enough? Not good micro? I have no clue what actually went wrong. Someone want to give it a fast look and see where things went wrong? I'm trying to practice bio here and most of the time I felt my splits (for plat) were fine. I just couldn't seem to punish that kind of economy. I'm not sure where everything went wrong. I'm not sure how I should have executed my drop at ~12 minutes. Maybe go for more important targets like geysers and spawning pools? What should I have done? | ||
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_Book
United States51 Posts
Also, how do you play marine tank? I dont know how to deal with tank lines effectively when i am ahead or behind. How do i exploit my lead if i have one? | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
This VOD and the following two parts are great resources for playing TvT Marine/Tank off of a 1 Barracks FE. | ||
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ultimania92
United States30 Posts
On July 04 2012 06:58 _Book wrote: Can anyone give tips on TvT in general. Im not all that familiar with the match up. I go banshee expand but i tend to see 1 rax expos so they have an ebay and turrets already waiting for me when i try to harass. Also, how do you play marine tank? I dont know how to deal with tank lines effectively when i am ahead or behind. How do i exploit my lead if i have one? You just keep pressuring with the banshee, but don't lose it and don't let macro slip. If they put turrets up in their mineral line, you can generally get the SCVs at the far ends of the mineral line as the turrets generally won't hit you if you position it just right. Alternately go for marines, as two volleys will kill a non-CS marine, and you can easily kite them all day provided your micro is good about it. Any loose tanks around? Kill them. And if you're really good about it, have constant cloak banshees, use them one or two at a time. Even if you force vikings, continue the pressure anyways by keeping the map clear. They'll run low on scans before you run low on banshees. As for TvT playing marine tank, if both players are equally skilled, there will be a point where neither of you will be able to kill each other on the ground. You need to get an air transition ready so you can just roll 3/3 BCs and rip tank lines apart. | ||
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Poffel
471 Posts
On July 04 2012 06:40 ultimania92 wrote: http://drop.sc/214071 TvZ, I can't figure out what went wrong here. Not aggressive enough? Not good micro? I have no clue what actually went wrong. Someone want to give it a fast look and see where things went wrong? I'm trying to practice bio here and most of the time I felt my splits (for plat) were fine. I just couldn't seem to punish that kind of economy. I'm not sure where everything went wrong. I'm not sure how I should have executed my drop at ~12 minutes. Maybe go for more important targets like geysers and spawning pools? What should I have done? Don't take this the wrong way, but there are so many dubious decisions and mechanical blunders in that game - both by you and by your opponent - that it's hard to find a place where to start. I know that this sounds harsh, but I don't even think that this is a good game to analyze if you intend to become better, because the best advice I feel I could give you would be something along the lines of "get right back to the drawing board". However, after that very brutal statement, let me just briefly address the two most important issues from this game. Notably, neither of these lost you the game by itself, but only because your opponent made so many mistakes as well (he was floating thousands of minerals the entire game, missed injections left and right, neglected his upgrades (he started 1/1 21 minutes into the game!), never teched beyond lair, etc.). However, also because your opponent made so many mistakes, I think that each of these issues could have won you the game had you avoided it: Throughout the whole game, you are exclusively producing marines. Granted, there are a few medivacs as well, and one (one!) tank, over the course of a game that goes on for over half an hour, in which your opponent successively attacks with lings and blings (and some mutas). I don't know if you had some kind of gentlemen's agreement, but if that isn't the case: Especially in regard to banelings, there are actually only two options for a terran player: If your are a Korean military experiment, split your marines in a godlike manner, shoot all banelings, and afterwards proceed to winning the game. On the other hand, if you (for some silly reason) aren't a Korean military experiment, you might want to produce some other units against those banelings, preferably anything that isn't a marine. Especially if your opponent sticks to banelings the whole game, and extra-especially after you've lost literally hundreds of marines to banelings. Please note that I'm not saying that you couldn't have won this game with an only-marine-army; you could have, but only with much better macro and/or micro, which brings me to my second observation: You went from one base to two base to three base-play in the beginning phase of the game. That's as greedy as it gets, but you got away with it, so I'd say, good for you. However, when your bases began to mine out, you went from three base to two base to one base... and eventually to no base when you ran out of minerals and your opponent overwhelmed you with sheer numbers. In the end, the resource tab shows that he has invested 15.000 more resources into his army than you. The bottom line is that you should have secured additional expansions much earlier, and that you should have continuously produced units. To be a bit more specific, let's pick the timespan during which your main and natural mined out: From around minute 18 on, you have 30 idle SCVs due to mined out bases. In minute 22, that number goes up to 42 idle SCVs. Only in minute 25 you start long-distance mining, and your fourth base eventually lands at 26:40. Notably, during that timespan, your army production is almost non-existant as well. At least in regard to your unit production, you have similar (although not nearly as severe) "hicups" throughout the whole game, and your current approach to army production seems to be to periodically fill up production queues of all your barracks with marines, rallied to the entrance of your base. That's not what I'd consider to be decent macro, and while, if we stick with this game, your opponent actually got ahead during the aforementioned timespan from around minute 20 onwards, he could have crushed you even earlier hadn't he struggled with similar problems. While there are other problems as well (late upgrades from your part, fleeing from advantageous positions and fighting in disatvantageous positions, attacking neglegable targets, bad rallying, suboptimal building placement, no turrets vs. mutalisks), like the one you mentioned in your post, I think you should concentrate on the aforementioned basics before you look into what I consider to be minor problems. Also, I'd recommend to hotkey your army. Once again, please don't take this the wrong way; I have no intent of insulting you, but I also think it wouldn't be helpful if I beat around the bush. | ||
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bwodie
Australia41 Posts
Can you have a look at my replay and give me some obvious things I can do better? http://drop.sc/214153?pass=cfa9ce8b-a667-4ac5-834e-f9701fc78c26 I didn't take my 4th early enough. Not enough drops When I sieged up in the middle for the big battle, I was way ahead on supply but: I was behind on marine upgrades If I had +1 on tank done, it would have been different my marine spread was shit Regardless, I was thinking with such a supply lead, it should have been a bit more even? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 04 2012 04:17 Opasmea wrote: I am a Diamond Terran (EU) and I had never really had any trouble with the match up until I got out of school for the summer, I started laddering more, and I feel very weak vs Z. I try a bio drop heavy style and try to play for the late game, but I am finding it hard keeping up in macro vs the Zerg. My builds: 1 rax expo on 4 player maps. 2 rax on 2 player maps. I try to get an early third, but when I take an early third I am vulnerable to ling/bane/roach all ins. I do not know the exact timings but when do I scout to try and see if the Zerg is going all in? I feel very uneasy at almost every point in the match up, and the Zergling/Infestor turtle with spines and spores negates my drop heavy style, I also feel very scared moving out to try to pressure expansions because creep is quit hard to deny. My second question is what do I do against a zerg that makes spines and spores to shut down drops? I also find it very hard to scout what the zerg is doing in the late game, whether he is going for broodlords or ultras, since it is very different tech paths to kill these units. Any help would be much appreciated. I'm going to give you a couple of timestamps to work with: 2:30 - this is when zerglings hatch from a 6-pool. They arrive at your base around 3:00, which means you should catch them with any scout before barracks are done. 2:30-4:00 - during this time your SCV is scouting your opponent's main base. You are specifically looking for 1) WHEN gases go down and 2) HOW MANY initial lings your opponent makes. The gas timing will give you a sense of when any pressure can be dealt as speed finishes ~3 minutes after the geyser first goes down. The initial lings will let you know if you need to build a security bunker (when 1rax FE). 4:00 - about the time that hatch and pool finishes if he went hatch first. You can reliably know you have until about 4:20 before you need to run your SCV away. 6:00-6:30 - this is generally the time that zerg will take a really fast 3rd. A lot of early pressure builds (before 9:00) rely on scouting whether or not a 3rd has gone down. If it has, you can reliably do something like a 3-4 rax marine shove safely. 7:30 - If your opponent took gas early, this is the general timing for a 2-base baneling bust. If you hold the watchtower, you can watch for a zerglings streaming across the map, etc. If you're blind, just add another bunker in case and make sure your walloff is finished by this point. 8:30 - If your opponent took gas early, this is the general timing for a roach/ling bust. Again, if you hold the watchtower, you can see the roaches coming across the map. Hellions will also be able to glimpse this if you go for the fast reactor hellion after expand. Build another bunker and hold. 9:00-11:00 - This is generally the timing of lair tech, depending on whether or not they tried to roach bust you or took a fast 3rd or played 2-base. Either way, a scan should be thrown down around 10:00 to check if lair tech is done and which tech path he's going down (mutas vs. infestors). It's not imperative that you know exactly which one, but something should feel wrong if he hasn't gone into lair tech already. 15:00-18:00 - depending on how much pressure has been applied, if the zerg went for a powerful midgame, etc, this is the general timing for hive tech. Throw a scan down to make sure, and also see the tech path again (ultras vs. BLords). If he's late on hivetech, you can continue midgame marine/tank pushes instead of tech switching to more mech or sky terran. Also, just invest in some thors as soon as you see hive going down!! These do very well against BOTH ultras and Blords. The only other consideration for dealing with BLords is simply getting the infrastructure up to build a lot of vikings quickly. For this, I generally go 1reactor sp + 2techlab sp to produce 4 vikings at a time while simultaneously preparing for the sky terran transition. | ||
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WaKai
Canada88 Posts
http://drop.sc/214275 Problem: Holding this all in is ridiculous, i took out 3 queens and evened the harvester count. Had 6 bunkers for defense and still no hold. stuborn: I don't want to use tanks, as that pretty much makes my main army weak, and pretty much looses me the 1-1 upgrades which are crucial for the midgame. (if he doesn't all in). I would have spent the gas fine if he didn't all in as tech would ahve been faster... known mistakes: forgot to take off scv for engi bay didn't split marines when banes broke into main micro could have been better 1 less gas geyser. | ||
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Endlave
Bangladesh4 Posts
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WaKai
Canada88 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
I have never asked for replays before, but let this be my first and only one. I am searching of TvT replays where one player goes sky terran, but not later in the game. For example, I have seen boxer vs rain in MLG where both transitioned to sky...its popular, you can see on youtube lol. So yeah, maybe the one where the player transitions to sky around early/mid game is fine. Thank you, hope I can find some | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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