The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 403

On January 18 2013 12:38 VoiceSC wrote:

I don't have an EU account and I'm only low masters as Terran, not a good choice to use.

If done right you should kill the scv, if not, you have a bunker that has less health and therefore easier to kill. And once the bunker is gone, you can just send those 4 probes to mine at your natural. So the mining time gone isn't that long. But it is somewhat significant.

Say it took you 30 seconds to force the cancel, travel time included. That's about 80 minerals lost for you, 25 for the bunker for him, plus the travel time and build time for the scv. If you manage to kill the scv, that's 75+ gone, about an even trade, Though it could go in someone else's favour more or less in some way.

On January 18 2013 14:10 Tzela wrote:
im only plat, so in no position really to speak on these things, but maybe someone can tell me if what im doing is near correct.

i send the 9 scout, and drop 13 gate. if i see no gas when i get to his base (assuming 2 spawn map) i go for this build http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/13_Gate_17_Nexus_(Vs._Terran)

if i see gas when i get there i drop my own and continue with this http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MC's_1_Gate_FE_(vs._Terran)

is this reasonable? or is there a reason no one else seems to be suggesting 17 nexus after 13 gate?

EDIT: whoooooops i should have read alllllllll the way back. u guys are actually fighting about the viability of this exact build, just without the 9 scout. my bad i understand now.

On January 18 2013 16:31 ineversmile wrote:


Basically, the whole point of 13gate 17 nexus is that you get a full 16 probe mineral saturation in your main, you get a fast nexus, but you also have that 13 gate in case of aggression. So like Nexus first, you have a really fast Nexus, but you also can get a zealot or two out faster, and you have a faster core (and therefore faster tech) than you would with Nexus First. But you should basically never 9 scout and do this build...the whole point is that you're getting that 13 gate so that you can be safer against aggression, to compensate for the potential lack of information from a depot wall.

A 13 scout isn't expected to always get into the terran's base, but it will see if there is:

-Obvious proxy play (no barracks in main)
-An expansion building at the natural
-Sometimes the terran screws up and puts other buildings close to his ramp, in vision of the probe
-And sometimes, the terran will just let you in anyways, because he doesn't care to stop the scout--or because he wants to let you in and then block your probe in with a depot and kill it

Parting would do the 13 Gate 17 Nexus and, often, not even scout until after dropping the Nexus. He would rally probe #17 out, since he already had 16 paired up on mineral patches. That meant optimal mining all the way through that magical 16 probe saturation marker. Probe #17 shows up at the natural just in time for 400 minerals to be sitting in the bank. There are other beautiful timings that line up, like that, too--it's an interesting build. But if you 9 scout, you lose basically all of the timings...and if you're scouting that early, you really have no reason to get the gate first. The gate is supposed to be a compromise towards helping solve early game aggression...either choose the 9 scout, or don't bother with 13/17 gate/nexus.

On January 18 2013 23:52 probeater wrote:
if im going blink and i scout an early 2nd gas (16-17) what are my opponents options and how should i respond to each? The guy i faced went phoenix after 2nd fast gas but since my probe died i couldn't scout it. i wasn't sure what to do but by the time i blinked up in his base he already had 4phoenix picking up my probes over at mine.. what should i do instead?

On January 19 2013 00:39 Phantasmiq wrote:
So assume i am doing FFE vs Z. Zerg does 14gas and 14 pool. he gets his pool done and starts boost immediately, he runs into my base with lets say 8-12 lings, but nstead of harrassing my natural, he runs into my main and starts killing my probes hence all the buildings and cannos are on natural. how can I defend???? building cannoncs in main??? doing some more simcity? Thx for answers guys

On January 19 2013 00:18 Geiko wrote:


2 gas before core usually indicates Stargate play, or Robo FE.

If you're blinking up his base and he has 4 phoenixes in your main, then you already won the game since he has no army at home ? If you are losing in this situation, it probably means you have a bad blink build. Pure blink builds finish blink at 7.00 - 7.10 with about 8 or 9 stalkers.At that point your opponent has something like 1 sentry, and 3 zealots at home (with an immortal on the way) and 3-4 phoenixes total.

On January 19 2013 01:14 VoiceSC wrote:


It's not a guaranteed win. If he has 4 phoenixes he can either A) Cripple your economy by taking out about 7 probes or B) Fly the Phoenix home and lift up your stalkers and kill them. Blink is a really micro intensive style of play.

Also probeater, typically when I see a 16 gas drops, it has turned into Stargate play. Also consider the map. If it's Daybreak, there is a greater chance of a phoenix build. If it is, say, Ohana, it's still leaning towards phoenix, but it could also be a robo expand.

On January 19 2013 01:39 city42 wrote:

Wait, what? I don't think you quite grasp the timings. Blink hits well before 4 phoenixes will be out, and he certainly won't have the energy to kill anywhere near 7 probes.

On January 19 2013 01:42 VoiceSC wrote:


I'm not the one that listed the timings.

On January 19 2013 01:46 city42 wrote:

Which phoenix build has 4 phoenixes in the opponent's base with the energy to kill 7 probes at 7:00? I'd love to steal it.

edit: for reference, a 4:15 stargate can have the fourth phoenix finishing right at 7:00, with the third one being halfway to the opponent's base and the first one having ~90 energy. This is with heavy chronoboost.

On January 19 2013 02:16 VoiceSC wrote:


Again, stop quoting me as if I was the one that said there will be 4 phoenixes at that time. I don't know the timings for phoenixes or blink stalkers.

What I said was based on what the other guy said. By the time, whenever it is, that you have 4 phoenix, you will have enough energy to kill about 6-7 probes

On January 19 2013 02:16 VoiceSC wrote:


Again, stop quoting me as if I was the one that said there will be 4 phoenixes at that time. I don't know the timings for phoenixes or blink stalkers.

What I said was based on what the other guy said. By the time, whenever it is, that you have 4 phoenix, you will have enough energy to kill about 6-7 probes