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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
Canada13403 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:51 maLaK1 wrote:
hi,
I'm a diamond zerg offracing protoss atm for fun/practice,
can you guys give me 3 solid build orders for each matchup, that use blink stalkers?
but no allin builds please, for PVZ and PVT I need on where I can quickly take a 3rd base,
for PvP I need a blink stalker one base build where I can expand after it,
since I play a lot of 2v2 can you also give me a solid 2on2 build that is cheese proof
Read mod note, check OP and then you know what to do.
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On September 22 2012 09:22 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 08:51 maLaK1 wrote:
hi,
I'm a diamond zerg offracing protoss atm for fun/practice,
can you guys give me 3 solid build orders for each matchup, that use blink stalkers?
but no allin builds please, for PVZ and PVT I need on where I can quickly take a 3rd base,
for PvP I need a blink stalker one base build where I can expand after it,
since I play a lot of 2v2 can you also give me a solid 2on2 build that is cheese proof Read mod note, check OP and then you know what to do.
that doesnt answer my question
I asked for specific builds using blink stalkers
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On September 22 2012 09:30 maLaK1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 09:22 ZeromuS wrote:On September 22 2012 08:51 maLaK1 wrote:
hi,
I'm a diamond zerg offracing protoss atm for fun/practice,
can you guys give me 3 solid build orders for each matchup, that use blink stalkers?
but no allin builds please, for PVZ and PVT I need on where I can quickly take a 3rd base,
for PvP I need a blink stalker one base build where I can expand after it,
since I play a lot of 2v2 can you also give me a solid 2on2 build that is cheese proof Read mod note, check OP and then you know what to do. that doesnt answer my question I asked for specific builds using blink stalkers
we just don't want mod action taken against people who have no malignant intent, but seriously there is a mod note to read the op, and here we follow mod notes ^^
As for the actual answer:
There actually aren't any blink-based builds that aren't all-in. In theory you can take a third in PvZ with 5gate twilight sentry/stalker, but.....what're you gonna follow it up with? You lose all tech, and you really need robo tech in PvZ, either in the form of immortals or colo (I'm shifting away from colo; creatorprime style Pv(Everything) :D
In PvT I honestly don't think blink non-all ins exist at all
PvP it's a 1base play that doesn't get tech...I recommend an aggressive 2gate expand into 5gate blink followup; it lets you get your robo/upgrades while still being insanely aggressive. I think if you search "[g] sase", his PvP build will show up. I use it at a mid-high diamond level and it's great; auto-win against 4gate.
Lol there's no 2v2 builds that are cheese proof. A build that counters a 4gate would lose to 2port banshee, a build that's safe against baneling bust wouldn't be safe against 5rax or w/e the Terran 1 base TvP cheese is.
Just play a 1G fe, and react to all-ins you scout. It's totally map-dependent; on some you can FFE if you're against double Zerg. Or you could do a 3gate expo :D
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Hi tosses, I come with a PvZ replay :D
http://drop.sc/256578
I have to say, I 7 gate every PvZ in which I see the other player fast 3-basing, so my PvZ "late game" understanding is pretty shit.
I FFE, I see he doesn't get a 3rd so I get some faster gates and a robo to see what he's up to. I barely defend the B-Ling push, with better FFs and faster response I could have avoided way loads of damage. When he backs off I continue getting an army. (should I inmediately expand when he pulls away?), and waaaaay later I get up the 3rd base and a nice defense. I fend off his maxed out push pretty well I believe. I feel confident so I push, my army divides in 2 in a terrain whole and he crushes me. From there on its just waves of roaches that I can't stop.
Mistakes I believe I made:
- Late 3rd base
- Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaate upgrades
- Multitasking, I A-moved and the army got cut in half, yay
- Pylons and Probes :<
I would appreciate if someone could take a look and higlight any other things I could have missed, or how to react accordingly to events that happened :D
This is Gold btw, ty TL :D
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^^ I'd say the super late expansions and derping into the roaches are the two things you should focus on. More immortals would have been good too.
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What is the correct response to a fast (<12 min) hive in PvZ?
Usually I like to hit a strong pre-broodlord colossus timing off 3 bases. However, with his hive being so fast, I find that can't get a big enough deathball that quickly. If the zerg is turtling behind spines, it's kinda hard to power through with a weak ground army. Would skipping colossi and just getting immortals/gateway units (+maybe archons) be better if my plan is to all-in?
Also are there any rules of thumb as to when it is better to all in vs going for a 4th base while getting a mothership ASAP, or is it just a preference thing?
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On September 22 2012 14:53 eugalp wrote:
What is the correct response to a fast (<12 min) hive in PvZ?
Usually I like to hit a strong pre-broodlord colossus timing off 3 bases. However, with his hive being so fast, I find that can't get a big enough deathball that quickly. If the zerg is turtling behind spines, it's kinda hard to power through with a weak ground army. Would skipping colossi and just getting immortals/gateway units (+maybe archons) be better if my plan is to all-in?
Also are there any rules of thumb as to when it is better to all in vs going for a 4th base while getting a mothership ASAP, or is it just a preference thing?
I'm having trouble with this too ;;
They usually skip upgrades and stay on 1-1 or 0-1, but just mass spines ;;
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On September 22 2012 15:28 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 14:53 eugalp wrote:
What is the correct response to a fast (<12 min) hive in PvZ?
Usually I like to hit a strong pre-broodlord colossus timing off 3 bases. However, with his hive being so fast, I find that can't get a big enough deathball that quickly. If the zerg is turtling behind spines, it's kinda hard to power through with a weak ground army. Would skipping colossi and just getting immortals/gateway units (+maybe archons) be better if my plan is to all-in?
Also are there any rules of thumb as to when it is better to all in vs going for a 4th base while getting a mothership ASAP, or is it just a preference thing? I'm having trouble with this too ;; They usually skip upgrades and stay on 1-1 or 0-1, but just mass spines ;;
Much depend on your openings, but generally such fast Broodlords cant defend a 4th(possibly)/5th. So what you want to do is take a 4th while teching mothership and bully him on the map for as long as you can.
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Shouldn't 12 minute hive die horribly to a 2 base attack?
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On September 22 2012 16:42 Jerubaal wrote:
Shouldn't 12 minute hive die horribly to a 2 base attack?
Nope if the Zerg has planned for 12 minute hive he should have a spine wall and a good amount of Infestor/roach If you have the right tech and control you can bust it but if you were playing a more passive game not really much you can do.
Anyone else having a really hard time with infested terrans? I have been ahead in the past couple games got my third and moved out with the power of 3 as I call it +3 attack 3 colossus and 3 immortals with sentry stalker. Instead of mass fungal my army Zergs have just been throwing out like 25-40 infested terrans and running roach ling into my army. It has also been winning, plus they snipe motherships so damn quick!
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Italy12246 Posts
On September 22 2012 16:42 Jerubaal wrote:
Shouldn't 12 minute hive die horribly to a 2 base attack?
A 2base attack hits before 12 minutes. Such a fast Hive is a reaction to a 9-10 minute third, usually.
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On September 22 2012 16:59 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 16:42 Jerubaal wrote:
Shouldn't 12 minute hive die horribly to a 2 base attack? Nope if the Zerg has planned for 12 minute hive he should have a spine wall and a good amount of Infestor/roach If you have the right tech and control you can bust it but if you were playing a more passive game not really much you can do. Anyone else having a really hard time with infested terrans? I have been ahead in the past couple games got my third and moved out with the power of 3 as I call it +3 attack 3 colossus and 3 immortals with sentry stalker. Instead of mass fungal my army Zergs have just been throwing out like 25-40 infested terrans and running roach ling into my army. It has also been winning, plus they snipe motherships so damn quick!
i may be misreading, but they are infested terrans, can you not just forcefield to safely walk back, then engage when he has no energy infestors?
also collosus shred infested terrans really quickly? I feel like this seems like poor forcefields letting the roach ling force get too cost effective engagement.
also if you have a mothership then you should have templar tech to try and feedback a lot of infestors, not to mention storm also being great against infested terrans.
as for the fast hive, fly warp prism in main whilst pressuring 4th, if they are relying on mass spine and fungal rather than heavily upgraded lots of roaches the zerg usually just wont have enough stuff to be able to deal with mass warpins in the main and defend his 4th.
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On September 22 2012 14:53 eugalp wrote:
What is the correct response to a fast (<12 min) hive in PvZ?
Usually I like to hit a strong pre-broodlord colossus timing off 3 bases. However, with his hive being so fast, I find that can't get a big enough deathball that quickly. If the zerg is turtling behind spines, it's kinda hard to power through with a weak ground army. Would skipping colossi and just getting immortals/gateway units (+maybe archons) be better if my plan is to all-in?
Also are there any rules of thumb as to when it is better to all in vs going for a 4th base while getting a mothership ASAP, or is it just a preference thing?
Maybe you should stop using this deathball mentallity and instead go fight your opponent where he's weak, not at his wall of base defense. Instead of blindly going colossi for a doom push, use your Robo Bay for prism speed and go punch his economy in the mouth. Sending air units and blink stalkers can let you bring an army over cliffs/short gaps and ignore the giant spine wall.
Sun Tzu must be rolling over in his grave. Don't attack a fortified city....
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Recently I've been having a LOT of trouble vs Terran. I've gone... 0-7 recently.
Some of the biggest problems: What do I do if I can't scout a Terran due to scouting last on 4 player map. Should I still 1 gate FE? I end up dying to 2 rax because I try poking with my zealot stalker.
How can I differentiate between a concussive expand and a 2 rax with one proxied?
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On September 23 2012 02:02 mizU wrote:
Recently I've been having a LOT of trouble vs Terran. I've gone... 0-7 recently.
Some of the biggest problems: What do I do if I can't scout a Terran due to scouting last on 4 player map. Should I still 1 gate FE? I end up dying to 2 rax because I try poking with my zealot stalker.
How can I differentiate between a concussive expand and a 2 rax with one proxied?
Only expand if Terran expands. Otherwise drop 3 gates and a robo and get ready to hold.
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Please review the linked game. PvT is by far my worst match-up, especially when they open with 1 gas and expand behind a 2 rax pressure. It seems like all the Protoss mid-game guides are based on playing against a gassless FE. By the way, I'm Platinum level. I often beat Diamond Protoss and Zergs, but sometimes lose to Gold Terrans because my PvT is so bad 
My analysis: I warped in 3 sentries before his pre-medivac stim push. I should have warped in Zealots instead. The sentries were worthless because I missed 3 force fields behind his army when he stimmed. Also, I should have immediately counter-attacked after surviving his push. My goal was to get 3 Collasi and then all-in him, but he kept the pressure up so that I couldn't leave my base.
Here's the replay: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)StalkeR_vs_(P)DonJimbo/20899
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Hi,
there seems to be recently a newish way to open 1 gate fe against Terran, were P go for 2 gas into expand into quick robo (before the standard 3 gates). From the parting thread I got the following bo:
# Parting 1 gate safer FE
9 - Pylon (CB Nexus 2x)
13 - Gateway (CB Nexus), Scout
15- Assimilator x2 (2 Probes in each)
17 - Pylon
17 - Cybernetics Core
18 - Zealot
* - @ 100% Core: Stalker (CB), WG Research
24 - Nexus
25 - Pylon
26 - Robotics Facility (cut probes for a bit)
26 - Gateway x2
26 - Sentry
Is this the optimal way to play this style? Does it works only against 1 rax expand? (Obviously it looks to be a great build against 111, but I am not sure it can defend the 2 rax in time seeing as how the gates are delayed, does the immortal arrives in time?)
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Italy12246 Posts
On September 23 2012 03:09 Davron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:02 mizU wrote:
Recently I've been having a LOT of trouble vs Terran. I've gone... 0-7 recently.
Some of the biggest problems: What do I do if I can't scout a Terran due to scouting last on 4 player map. Should I still 1 gate FE? I end up dying to 2 rax because I try poking with my zealot stalker.
How can I differentiate between a concussive expand and a 2 rax with one proxied? Only expand if Terran expands. Otherwise drop 3 gates and a robo and get ready to hold.
Wrong, 1gate FE SHOULD be able to hold regardless.
Try poking as much as possible with your probe/zealot/stalker, if you do sacrifice the prbe make sure you are doing it for a reason. I like poking up his ramp at around 3.30 ish with it, as if he's only made one marine i should be able to get past it and see if his rax is making an addon, or if an scv is going to the low ground to make a cc. If he's not getting a tech lab, poke again with zealot/stalker.
That said, it just sounds like your 1gate FE may not be too safe, but i can't really tell without watching a replay.
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what do you think about doing a cannon rush in response to scouting a CC first from Terran?
So basically you do your normal opening pylon->gateway
but upon scouting CC first you throw a forge down and proceed to cannon rush?
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This thread.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
