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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
Hello,
I think that my macro and micro is good enough compared to my opponents and I
always lose because my engagements are awful.
I would like to know more about about positions and where should I attack my opponent
and more important I would like to know ways to tempt my opponent to engage me in bad positions for him.
I see his army value and mine and its always pretty equal and I often lose engagements because of bad positions, specially at PvP.
I would like to get some tips about this subject.
Thanks in advance,
Daniel.
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On September 23 2012 03:34 Salient wrote:Please review the linked game. PvT is by far my worst match-up, especially when they open with 1 gas and expand behind a 2 rax pressure. It seems like all the Protoss mid-game guides are based on playing against a gassless FE. By the way, I'm Platinum level. I often beat Diamond Protoss and Zergs, but sometimes lose to Gold Terrans because my PvT is so bad  My analysis: I warped in 3 sentries before his pre-medivac stim push. I should have warped in Zealots instead. The sentries were worthless because I missed 3 force fields behind his army when he stimmed. Also, I should have immediately counter-attacked after surviving his push. My goal was to get 3 Collasi and then all-in him, but he kept the pressure up so that I couldn't leave my base. Here's the replay: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)StalkeR_vs_(P)DonJimbo/20899
2 rax pressure would have arrived minutes earlier. That was more like, open two rax, make units, research stim then attack over and over. At any rate, you could have held much more easily had you FF'ed the moment he stimmed in and been more zealot heavy.
It's difficult to judge though, cause your timings weren't optimal and could have resulted in one more additional warp-in of units. You could have sent the probe/zealot/stalker to pressure his ramp as the stalker popped out, and it could have slowed the push immensely. Stalker pressure goes hand in hand because once a bunker/concussive deflects them back, they can hold a watch tower which would have tipped you off he was gonna attack, giving you foresight to brace and land the forcefields. Core was fairly late, and missed a cboost. You dropped a gas and started a stalker before planting gateways two and three, etc. Needed to also start a sentry as your fourth unit and not a stalker -- you'd have been able to afford a GS by the time he attacked.
On September 23 2012 06:50 Daniel12 wrote:
Hello,
I think that my macro and micro is good enough compared to my opponents and I
always lose because my engagements are awful.
I would like to know more about about positions and where should I attack my opponent
and more important I would like to know ways to tempt my opponent to engage me in bad positions for him.
I see his army value and mine and its always pretty equal and I often lose engagements because of bad positions, specially at PvP.
I would like to get some tips about this subject.
Thanks in advance,
Daniel.
Positional superiority is very...situational. You'll probably have very general advice lobbed at you that probably doesn't apply to any specific game you might have lost. You will definitely have better luck uploading replays where you think you controlled an engagement poorly but don't know why. Then you'll learn and adapt to those situations after experiencing them first hand.
The best advice I'll give you, is that information, map control, and vision of his army are everything. When you don't know where he is, every move up a ramp or into a choke is a risk. You have to always assume he's at the most superior position relative to yours at all times until you actually know where his army is. Once you approach movement and positioning this way, you'll see how many holes open up in your gameplay. Then once you get sight of him, you can plan ahead as to how you want to engage most efficiently.
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Hey everyone,
I'm new to Protoss and new to the game (only been playing about a month), but I find myself getting better rapidly, though, I'm only top 8 gold at the moment (feel as if I should be higher, there's a lot of dumb losses).
I'm primarily struggling in PvT.. I don't know if this is the thread for it, but I figured it would be my best option, considering as a new member, I'm unable to make a thread for the next 3 days.
If someone could review this game (http://drop.sc/256843) , it would be a big help. Early agression from T, usually puts me in a weird spot and forces me to get my expo late and play defensive, which I hate, cause I prefer to put the pressure on my opponents. This game is real sloppy, with some obvious glaring mistakes, but if anyone could take the time to help me out it would be a big help.
Thanks.
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On September 23 2012 09:35 Drizzle. wrote:
Hey everyone,
I'm new to Protoss and new to the game (only been playing about a month), but I find myself getting better rapidly, though, I'm only top 8 gold at the moment (feel as if I should be higher, there's a lot of dumb losses).
I'm primarily struggling in PvT.. I don't know if this is the thread for it, but I figured it would be my best option, considering as a new member, I'm unable to make a thread for the next 3 days.
If someone could review this game (http://drop.sc/256843) , it would be a big help. Early agression from T, usually puts me in a weird spot and forces me to get my expo late and play defensive, which I hate, cause I prefer to put the pressure on my opponents. This game is real sloppy, with some obvious glaring mistakes, but if anyone could take the time to help me out it would be a big help.
Thanks.
As a preface, this post I am going to focus on the important things, no nitpicking little details; just the big stuff.
So you were being far far to defensive after he pushed you the first time, you got a third and fourth gateway, a second and third immortal, a forge and a photon cannon. The build you are doing is already very safe, that wa major overraction on your part--you only need 2 gateways, and 1 immortal, just take your expand off of that. Heck, you didn't even need the immortal, but just in case he was going to do a follow up, it would be okay for you to get it. Had you done this you would have gotten your expansion safely at around 6 minutes. Rather than 11 mintues. With that much earlier expansion, you would have been fine against his follow up attacks.
As for composition, don't be so Stalker heavy, your arm was main comprised of stalkers and sentries--this type of composition is good against Zerg, but is very bad against stimmed bio; especially marauders. Where Stalkers are a staple unit versus Zerg, they are merely used versus terran to micro against marines in the early game, as well as shoot vikings and defend drops.
Fixing these two issues, and you should be fine versus Terran.
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In PvP, is there a decent one or two base all-in a player opening robo can do against a player opening phoenix into robo into expand? I just like having the option of pulling a surprise all-in, but in this situation I feel like my options are limited.
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Italy12246 Posts
On September 23 2012 12:44 Chandra wrote:
In PvP, is there a decent one or two base all-in a player opening robo can do against a player opening phoenix into robo into expand? I just like having the option of pulling a surprise all-in, but in this situation I feel like my options are limited.
You can throw down a twilight council when you see his phoenixes, expand when he does, and then go for a chargelot/blink/archon timing to bust him. If he doesn't do enough damage with his phoenixes and/or over invests in immortals, your chargelot/archon army should wreck him.
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On September 23 2012 17:03 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 12:44 Chandra wrote:
In PvP, is there a decent one or two base all-in a player opening robo can do against a player opening phoenix into robo into expand? I just like having the option of pulling a surprise all-in, but in this situation I feel like my options are limited. You can throw down a twilight council when you see his phoenixes, expand when he does, and then go for a chargelot/blink/archon timing to bust him. If he doesn't do enough damage with his phoenixes and/or over invests in immortals, your chargelot/archon army should wreck him.
This had occurred to me, and I've done it a couple times. However I find that if he scouts it in time and gets up a gateway wall chargelot archon gets shut down hard. Any way to get around this?
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On September 23 2012 17:06 Chandra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 17:03 Teoita wrote:On September 23 2012 12:44 Chandra wrote:
In PvP, is there a decent one or two base all-in a player opening robo can do against a player opening phoenix into robo into expand? I just like having the option of pulling a surprise all-in, but in this situation I feel like my options are limited. You can throw down a twilight council when you see his phoenixes, expand when he does, and then go for a chargelot/blink/archon timing to bust him. If he doesn't do enough damage with his phoenixes and/or over invests in immortals, your chargelot/archon army should wreck him. This had occurred to me, and I've done it a couple times. However I find that if he scouts it in time and gets up a gateway wall chargelot archon gets shut down hard. Any way to get around this?
scouting the gateway wall isn t a mistake 
if he does that you can still go into macro mode and a robo support bay+2. robo
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Does anyone have a method of keeping track of nexus energy? keeping track of ready gateways and supply is visible at a glance (top bottom right) but what do you use as a notification for nexus energy running up? at the moment i just spam it onto my gateways whenever i build a unit.
What do you do? Or do you guys just somehow remember it all the time?
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http://drop.sc/257095
I am so bad in PvP... this is just proof of on how bad I am at PvP.
I lost almost every engagment for some odd reason that I think I could of won.
I see why when I engaged him that I lost that one because I blink fowarded to kill his colo... to get melted by another colo (making it two colo)
Can someone help me?
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On September 24 2012 05:52 frito wrote:
Does anyone have a method of keeping track of nexus energy? keeping track of ready gateways and supply is visible at a glance (top bottom right) but what do you use as a notification for nexus energy running up? at the moment i just spam it onto my gateways whenever i build a unit.
What do you do? Or do you guys just somehow remember it all the time?
There are a couple of things you can do.
The simplest thing is to constantly boost stuff. However, this means that the closest nexus will boost your buildings first, so when you're on multiple bases you can have chrono stockpile in one Nexus (like your third base) while the other one(s) are bone dry. I still like to hotkey all my Nexi to one button, though, because I don't think it's necessary to put them on multiple buttons. Either way, this is generally what helps. You should honestly just beat it into your brain that you always want to chronoboost, just like how you want to warp in units whenever you can and you always want to spend your money. It's just part of Protoss macro.
Usually if you're on 2 bases and you're just generally focused on building stuff on time, you can chronoboost constantly and not have problems with a Nexus maxing out on energy. However, if you're on higher base counts, you should check them every once in a while. Press your location hotkeys/backspace to tab through viewing your Nexi and check their energy bars. You should have health bars enabled, so you can check that pink graphical representation of their energy quickly and see exactly what you're working with.
If you're running out of ideas for what you want to use your Chrono on later in the game, here's what you can do:
-Boost all your gateways, or a lot of them. You can actually do some pretty ninja things with back-to-back boosted warp-ins. Boosting all your gates is a pretty effective Chrono dump.
-Overboost upgrades. Boost them all, then 10 seconds later boost them again...you have 4+ nexi so boost is essentially over-supplied and low demand. It's more important to keep those upgrades boosted than to worry about saving boost at that stage in the game, since chances are high that you could need to micro your army for over a minute and you probably won't have the opportunity to go home and boost your buildings right as their boost expires.
Also, don't forget to hotkey new Nexi to your main hotkey!
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On September 24 2012 05:56 XERtirips wrote:http://drop.sc/257095I am so bad in PvP... this is just proof of on how bad I am at PvP. I lost almost every engagment for some odd reason that I think I could of won. I see why when I engaged him that I lost that one because I blink fowarded to kill his colo... to get melted by another colo (making it two colo) Can someone help me?
So, after you got your expansion safely; and you saw his 3 gate robo with an immortal, you should know taht you are pretty safe from an attack. So rather than waste time getting immortals and blink and stuff, it would be much better for you to have dropped own a robo bay and started colossus production asap, while getting attack upgrades from a forge, and getting the TC to further the attack upgrades (though get charge and blink if you can afford them without cutting atttack upgrades and more importantly colossus)--getting a second robo once you feel you can support it will help you in making more colossus then your opponent. Once you have at least equaled the colossus count of your opponent, just make sure to watch out for stargate switches, and make sure to take bases safely.
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On September 23 2012 11:14 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:35 Drizzle. wrote:
Hey everyone,
I'm new to Protoss and new to the game (only been playing about a month), but I find myself getting better rapidly, though, I'm only top 8 gold at the moment (feel as if I should be higher, there's a lot of dumb losses).
I'm primarily struggling in PvT.. I don't know if this is the thread for it, but I figured it would be my best option, considering as a new member, I'm unable to make a thread for the next 3 days.
If someone could review this game (http://drop.sc/256843) , it would be a big help. Early agression from T, usually puts me in a weird spot and forces me to get my expo late and play defensive, which I hate, cause I prefer to put the pressure on my opponents. This game is real sloppy, with some obvious glaring mistakes, but if anyone could take the time to help me out it would be a big help.
Thanks. As a preface, this post I am going to focus on the important things, no nitpicking little details; just the big stuff. So you were being far far to defensive after he pushed you the first time, you got a third and fourth gateway, a second and third immortal, a forge and a photon cannon. The build you are doing is already very safe, that wa major overraction on your part--you only need 2 gateways, and 1 immortal, just take your expand off of that. Heck, you didn't even need the immortal, but just in case he was going to do a follow up, it would be okay for you to get it. Had you done this you would have gotten your expansion safely at around 6 minutes. Rather than 11 mintues. With that much earlier expansion, you would have been fine against his follow up attacks. As for composition, don't be so Stalker heavy, your arm was main comprised of stalkers and sentries--this type of composition is good against Zerg, but is very bad against stimmed bio; especially marauders. Where Stalkers are a staple unit versus Zerg, they are merely used versus terran to micro against marines in the early game, as well as shoot vikings and defend drops. Fixing these two issues, and you should be fine versus Terran.
Thanks for the help. What composition do you recommend? Chargelot/Archon?
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On September 24 2012 05:56 XERtirips wrote:http://drop.sc/257095I am so bad in PvP... this is just proof of on how bad I am at PvP. I lost almost every engagment for some odd reason that I think I could of won. I see why when I engaged him that I lost that one because I blink fowarded to kill his colo... to get melted by another colo (making it two colo) Can someone help me?
The biggest things that stick out to me are the zealots killing off your immortals and the fact that he had 3/3 weapons upgraded, as well as you having no counter offense against his own immortals. More sentries and positioning colossi could have blocked them off easily in most of those situations. Considering how armor heavy your group was, and how large damage per attack was, his immortals made pretty quick work of your units and survived well.
After the first large encounter a transfer to archives and zealots could have helped, or starport and using phoenix to dispatch immortals after focusing down stalkers. After that you could pull away and, given you wall off the enemy, take down the immos without much problem via grav beam.
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On September 24 2012 08:23 Drizzle. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 11:14 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:On September 23 2012 09:35 Drizzle. wrote:
Hey everyone,
I'm new to Protoss and new to the game (only been playing about a month), but I find myself getting better rapidly, though, I'm only top 8 gold at the moment (feel as if I should be higher, there's a lot of dumb losses).
I'm primarily struggling in PvT.. I don't know if this is the thread for it, but I figured it would be my best option, considering as a new member, I'm unable to make a thread for the next 3 days.
If someone could review this game (http://drop.sc/256843) , it would be a big help. Early agression from T, usually puts me in a weird spot and forces me to get my expo late and play defensive, which I hate, cause I prefer to put the pressure on my opponents. This game is real sloppy, with some obvious glaring mistakes, but if anyone could take the time to help me out it would be a big help.
Thanks. As a preface, this post I am going to focus on the important things, no nitpicking little details; just the big stuff. So you were being far far to defensive after he pushed you the first time, you got a third and fourth gateway, a second and third immortal, a forge and a photon cannon. The build you are doing is already very safe, that wa major overraction on your part--you only need 2 gateways, and 1 immortal, just take your expand off of that. Heck, you didn't even need the immortal, but just in case he was going to do a follow up, it would be okay for you to get it. Had you done this you would have gotten your expansion safely at around 6 minutes. Rather than 11 mintues. With that much earlier expansion, you would have been fine against his follow up attacks. As for composition, don't be so Stalker heavy, your arm was main comprised of stalkers and sentries--this type of composition is good against Zerg, but is very bad against stimmed bio; especially marauders. Where Stalkers are a staple unit versus Zerg, they are merely used versus terran to micro against marines in the early game, as well as shoot vikings and defend drops. Fixing these two issues, and you should be fine versus Terran. Thanks for the help. What composition do you recommend? Chargelot/Archon?
Depends on what you want to do, if you go colossus off of two base; then only get archons once you have a third; otherwise, you will most likely not have enough gas to get the 4-6 sentries, and 8+ stalkers along with colossus.
Or, you could go straight zealot archon off of two bases, which is okay as well. Though Chargezealot Archon has more weaknesses than a colossus centric style, mainly because you can't attack into buildings, or in tights spaces (because of the fact that your army is mostly melee units)--they are also easy for the Terran to kite (once again, because they are melee units); though these weaknesses can be circumvented a bit by either 1.) good force fields, or 2.) immortals.
I'd say to try out both compositions, and see which one you prefer, if you are unsure which one you should go with.
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What's the best way to ensure that a 15 or 17 supply nexus first is safe against ling runbys in PvZ? Should I be keeping my scouting probe on a tower to watch if they make 6 lings and run straight for my base so I can wall off in advance?
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Italy12246 Posts
If they went 14-15 pool, your cannon should barely be done in time on most maps, if he doesn't send the lings straight across (which is risky since he will ignore your probe and risk getting a hatch blocked). If you want to play it safe, have a probe on hold position in the gap in your wall, ready to throw down a pylon to block the entrance fully as the cannon finishes.
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Where did I go wrong in this pvp where I faced a proxy 2gate?
http://drop.sc/257343
I always scout nat because I didn't think people would proxy the third since the distance to the main is so far... Anyway this was a kinda late proxy gate since I managed to get my first stalker out. However its damn hard to micro when he sends a single zealot to the mineral line...
I thought I was doing fine, sending all my probes to his main to kill off his probes.
Was it a pure micro win for him or did I go wrong in my attempt to hold the cheese?
(Btw, the rage at the end... Cheesed for the 3rd game in a row...)
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On September 23 2012 03:34 Salient wrote:Please review the linked game. PvT is by far my worst match-up, especially when they open with 1 gas and expand behind a 2 rax pressure. It seems like all the Protoss mid-game guides are based on playing against a gassless FE. By the way, I'm Platinum level. I often beat Diamond Protoss and Zergs, but sometimes lose to Gold Terrans because my PvT is so bad My analysis: I warped in 3 sentries before his pre-medivac stim push. I should have warped in Zealots instead. The sentries were worthless because I missed 3 force fields behind his army when he stimmed. Also, I should have immediately counter-attacked after surviving his push. My goal was to get 3 Collasi and then all-in him, but he kept the pressure up so that I couldn't leave my base. Here's the replay: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)StalkeR_vs_(P)DonJimbo/20899
More awareness could have probably shaped your unit composition. The biggest reason for your loss was micro- proper micro could have definitely won these battles even with the composition you had. The engagements at 15 and 19 minutes could have absolutely been beneficial trade-offs if more attention was given to micro.
Your sentries weren't a mistake- but zealots could have helped as well. If you manage to stress thermal lance and get it quickly you can place a sentry at the front line- force field to keep the enemies at about 7 range, then take a ton out with colossi. Remember that the enemy units will automatically spread into a line that's perfect for colossi fire once they hit a wall of force field, and they're all on par when it comes to speed, so running isn't so helpful. The range of force field is 9, so your sentry isn't in danger.
Another thing that would have helped is focus firing with your stalkers. If you control group x stalkers so that they can one-shot y unit, medivacs are absolutely useless against that- there's no healing an instakill.
In the engagement at 19 minutes, the vikings picked off those colossi immediately and your stalkers could have taken them out easily if they were targeted. For units, more zealots could have helped at that point, but moving tech towards high templars- and getting chargelots along the way, would have made it easier. If it was drawn out even further you can get blink stalkers to dispatch vikings ASAP so colossi are protected.
Zealots, sentries, high templars (then archons) and colossi are all great ways to claim AoE superiority while just ignoring the medivacs, but when you've already got a stalker-heavy composition they should be moved to focus fire duty on marauders, medivacs, or vikings.
So:
- More sentries, use FF to spread out bio-ball for colossus AoE, use GS when the marines are hitting.
- Get to thermal lance faster and move sentries out to the front lines so they can wall off at ~ 7 range and retreat while colossi mow down the spread out bio ball.
- Start to practice focus fire when medivacs are present and know how many of x stalker it takes to one-shot a given unit.
- Vikings are fantastic v. colossus, but stalkers can take them out quickly.
- Armor-heavy composition means marauders should be taken out first, or blocked off.
- Marines have 5 range v. colossus @ 6 before the range upgrade, wall
- High templars fit into both goals considering they can either feedback medivacs if the bio-ball is spread out, or storm them while grouped together, consider them.
Start messing around with this sort of stuff in your terran games. If you're losing to them a ton like you say, changing things up as much as possible is the best way to change it.
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Hey guys, dabbling in playing the other two races, my main is zerg.
PvP I'd really like to do a phoenix opening, but to my surprise there aren't many protoss guides to begin with, compared to zerg.
So if anyone could point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful.
I've seen a technical build which went like zealot/sentry/zealot with a stargate (2 on each gas for a while) into expand and I'd like to copy this, but I haven't managed to get a hold of a replay. Hopefully I was detailed enough!
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EPT
