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On February 13 2012 06:29 TheNoob wrote:
Helllo guys i am one questinon.How should i defend drops whit two medivacs in 2 places in PvT when i when i control the map? Like shatterd temple and i am in middle.
I personally like to leave a couple stalkers in my base in order to shoot down drops. Then warp in reinforcements as needed. That's how I deal with it at least.
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Northern Ireland23792 Posts
On February 13 2012 07:44 JMC4 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 06:29 TheNoob wrote:
Helllo guys i am one questinon.How should i defend drops whit two medivacs in 2 places in PvT when i when i control the map? Like shatterd temple and i am in middle. I personally like to leave a couple stalkers in my base in order to shoot down drops. Then warp in reinforcements as needed. That's how I deal with it at least.
I think 6 seems to be a pretty safe bet, snipe medivacs and warp in if needs be. Not sure if it's optimal but it's the kind of rule-of-thumb I've been operating under since adopting CreatorPrime's PvT style.
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Alright you gm's and pro-tossers, I have yet another question for ya!
If...
I know for a fact that my zergy opponent is definitely going to 11p 18h every game (and probably just drone anyway), is there a good bo counter for this? If not what is the most optimal way to open against it?
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On February 12 2012 07:55 Sweatshop wrote:
Looking for BOs to use in PvZ to use after a FFE which usually have a non-all in push to help take your third. I only have stuff like the 7 gate, +2 atk blink stalkers, and 12 min colossus push.
I already saw that +1 Zealot attack and would appreciate if possible, a guide, replay, video, etc
Thanks
Do the blinkstalker one, but use 5 gates instead. Still do the push, bring a probe, and make the nexus behind it. If you're lucky, he'll misread it as 7gate and way overcommit to defense, giving you an advantage.
You want to be making a robo at the same time as the third nexus so that if he goes crazy with roaches to prepare for the push, you can start making immortals immediately.
On February 13 2012 06:29 TheNoob wrote:
Helllo guys i am one questinon.How should i defend drops whit two medivacs in 2 places in PvT when i when i control the map? Like shatterd temple and i am in middle.
I like to use dark templar. Two of them will shut down any single medivac drop instantly. Even if they scan, by the time they do, the DT will probably have cleaned up half the units in the dropship anyway, and will finish them off even while visible. You can warp in them in reactively when you see the medivac approaching.
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Now for my question - how the hell do I deflect a hellion drop without any losses? I scout a Terran opening gas, so I go robo expand for safety. Observer spots him planning a hellion drop. I can only realistically have 2-3 stalkers to defend the drop, which doesn't seem to be enough to kill the medivac before it unloads unless it flies right on top of the stalkers.
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On February 13 2012 14:23 Selendis wrote:
Alright you gm's and pro-tossers, I have yet another question for ya!
If...
I know for a fact that my zergy opponent is definitely going to 11p 18h every game (and probably just drone anyway), is there a good bo counter for this? If not what is the most optimal way to open against it?
1gate FE works well against any Zerg build that delays gas.
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I'm lost when facing 1 base medivac stim all ins from Terran. These can range from vvvRuff's marine +1 timing to 3 rax marauder marine. Usually they pull SCVs and I just fall right over. Either that or I slowly get whittled away as his medivac count grows and my army dwindles. I'm not sure how much time I have to tech before his attack either. Is it possible to hold with just gateway units, ff and forcefield? Or do I need some kind of upgrade/charge/aoe?
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On February 13 2012 16:52 name_lock wrote:
I'm lost when facing 1 base medivac stim all ins from Terran. These can range from vvvRuff's marine +1 timing to 3 rax marauder marine. Usually they pull SCVs and I just fall right over. Either that or I slowly get whittled away as his medivac count grows and my army dwindles. I'm not sure how much time I have to tech before his attack either. Is it possible to hold with just gateway units, ff and forcefield? Or do I need some kind of upgrade/charge/aoe?
I think colossi would help a lot, as it counters all kind of a MMM agression.
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Italy12246 Posts
On February 13 2012 19:48 npkrol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 16:52 name_lock wrote:
I'm lost when facing 1 base medivac stim all ins from Terran. These can range from vvvRuff's marine +1 timing to 3 rax marauder marine. Usually they pull SCVs and I just fall right over. Either that or I slowly get whittled away as his medivac count grows and my army dwindles. I'm not sure how much time I have to tech before his attack either. Is it possible to hold with just gateway units, ff and forcefield? Or do I need some kind of upgrade/charge/aoe? I think colossi would help a lot, as it counters all kind of a MMM agression.
Yes, but you can't get colossi in time against most variations of the allin. I think the best reaction is to treat it like a 111 but make a few more sentries (4-5) instead of 2 and still go zealot/immortal.
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If I go for a one gate FE against T and he 3 rax/marine/scv all-ins me what should I do? Since I usually do the "MC" style 1 gate FE with one zealot and two stalkers, these are usually the only units I have when such an all in hits. Since I'm only in Platinum I've been able to hold the all in on some occasions by canceling the nexus and immediately throwing down 2 gates instead. I micro the hell out of the stalkers and do my best to try and whittle down the marines whilst avoiding a surround by scvs. I also try and chrono boost the core to try and get those warp gates up as fast as possible. If I manage to hold them off with my units and smart probe pulling, I'll have enough minerals for a round of warp ins that basically ends the game.
My questions are: what exactly should I do when I scout the all in? Are there times when I should just let the nexus finish, assuming hes just going to try and come up into my main and depower my gateways and such? What should I be doing with my chrono boosts? Should I be spending them on warp gate research or investing them into another gateway unit? If a gateway unit, which one exactly? I've heard talk about blocking the ramp with three pylons to help buy time for the 2 other gateways to finish instead. I've never seen it done before so I'm not sure just how viable or smart it is. Doesn't seem like a terrible idea. What the word among you higher level nerd bosses out there?
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Italy12246 Posts
Against marine/scv allin: kcdc recommends walling off your ramp completely with gates 2-3 and a pylon, chronoing out stalkers (which mc's build does). 3gate expand is actually quite bad on maps with a natural that isn't super super wide open because if he makes 2 bunkers he can hold your pressure easily, and then your nexus starts after his cc finishes. If you are going to pressure a 1rax fe you might as well do a 20 probe balls 4gate if you can deny scouting, or doing a 20 food 1gate fe into 4gate pressure.
Bel'shir pvz: pro's go for ffe on basically every map, including bel'shir; i would personally sentry expand since i suck at ffe and its followups. 15 hatch cancel into roach rush makes no sense, that build takes the gas super late therefore delaying the roaches by ages; if you sentry expand by the time he hits you will probably have enough units to hold since wg should be done.
I guess it comes down to scouting: against zerg guilds that delay gas you should always chrono out a stalker to kill a couple scouting lings, deny the watch towers for a bit and if you are super lucky snipe an overlord, against fast gas openings always always make sure to check that he has a hatch down at 4.00 ish and that he isn't mining any more gas, even if going gateway first because in that situation 1) he's bad 2) you can make void rays and win if he's doing some silly roach rush (which for some reason is super super common in lower leagues against any p opening).
What version of bel'shir did you play on? Because on the older version it's fucking impossible and ridicolous to ffe with a decent simcity so you see all these wonky walls which get baneling busted, on the newer you can wall at your nat like on shakuras/tal'darim.
edit: dat post count.
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Italy12246 Posts
Notice the difference between 1.1 and Bel'shir Winter (there's also a "summer" vesion with a proper nat) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bel'Shir_Beach
And yeah diamond terrans are hilarious sometimes. I don't think i have EVER lost a game in which i 6gated them.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On February 13 2012 23:21 Sated wrote:Unfortunately, my micro against Terrans is terrible, so I don't find them quite as hilarious  In fact, my micro being terrible is why holding a 1gate FE is something I can't seem to do against anyone who pulls off a 2rax properly. FML.
That's more likely to be your BO/execution, as if you have the right units at the right time, it doesn't really require challenging micro (I say this as someone else with terrible micro who doesn't really have a problem with 2rax)
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On February 13 2012 04:21 xlava wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 03:11 vahgar.r24 wrote:Thanks guys for the input...8 gates + more tech structures http://drop.sc/109841+ Show Spoiler +
This is a PvZ in Cloud Kingdom: I go for an FFE and he takes a late 3rd. I scout and see zerg has mass infestors so i get templar tech for feedback. I push out once i take my 3rd and have hit 200/200 with 2/2 (he was way below that) and fairly trade with his army. I do 1 more round of stalkers and templars but die to roach and BL's. Is there a diff composition required for this ? I did a fairly decent job of harassing his expos and stuff but still lost..
I'll watch. Game Analysis+ Show Spoiler +
- The first thing I noticed was that your initial pylon was VERY late. With a FFE things need to be extremely precise, having that pylon late could very well cost you the game to an early rush on a map with shorter rush distances.
- You scout a 14 pool but you build a forge first. There's no reason to do that on a map this big in conjunction with pylon blocking his expansion. A well placed cannon should be able to deter lings from getting into your main in this situation. TLDR: Nexus first in this case.
- Double gas at around 19, you gassed way too late.
- Your cyber core was also later than it needed to be.
- You'd lose to a roach all in. You have to be scouting these things either with a probe or that initial zealot.
- Wasted a chrono on the forge without researching anything.
- You're being very inefficient with your warpins. At around 11 minutes you're floating almost 1.2k, and not doing anything with it.
- Again at around 11:50, you add more gates but don't warp anything in. Somehow you're still way ahead in supply, but I have no idea how.
- Ah I see now, this zerg doesn't know how to drone. You're 10 ahead on workers, lol.
- Your third is way late. Normally versus competent zerg players you'd have lost by now for building such a late base and not attacking, but this zerg didn't know how to drone. Either do a timing or take a third, you can't just turtle on two bases.
- You build a robo but don't do anything with it until like 5 minutes after -_- same with your templar archives. Build tech with the intent to use it, or its just wasted money.
*** I'm going to skip to the final battle, you're on top of production now as well as upgrades, and it looks like this zerg isn't going to be anywhere near your supply until then, so as said, I'm not watching anything after 17 minutes until the final battle***
- The fact that you've done 0 scouting the entire game leaves you at a serious disadvantage, especially considering there are about 10 brood lords prepared to say hello to you, and you have no response nor any preparations to make a response (ie, stargate, colossi) You have neither tech.
- You attack into a concave, and get wrecked as expected, simply put this game came down to you not having the proper response to what the zerg was doing.
Bottom Line: You were't prepared because you didn't scout, its as simple as that, his comp is going to beat yours every time. Also you really should've been 3-3-3 by that time in the game, instead you were only 2-2-0.
Many thanks bro...very concise and to the point..will def keep ur tips in mind!
Edit : What should be my unit comp vs roach BL's ?
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Italy12246 Posts
If he doesn't have infestors for some wierd reason, add void rays to your army and you are fine; focus down the broodlords with your voids.
If he does have infestors, get a mothership, a few archons and archon toilet the broodlords. Try to scout his hive timing and start teching to it when his hive starts; start templar archives/dark shrine when you start the mothership. Protect the mothership with blink stalkers/storm/void rays. Against broodlord/infestor the ultimate protoss composition is archon/templar/mothership/carrier/void ray; check out this thread for more info http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=300535
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On February 14 2012 00:33 Teoita wrote:If he doesn't have infestors for some wierd reason, add void rays to your army and you are fine; focus down the broodlords with your voids. If he does have infestors, get a mothership, a few archons and archon toilet the broodlords. Try to scout his hive timing and start teching to it when his hive starts; start templar archives/dark shrine when you start the mothership. Protect the mothership with blink stalkers/storm/void rays. Against broodlord/infestor the ultimate protoss composition is archon/templar/mothership/carrier/void ray; check out this thread for more info http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=300535
Actually I think that's the ultimate unit composition against anything, especially if you add some immortals too. I haven't really used it much on ladder because I think it's boring but in unit testers, I can't see this army losing to anything.
A question of my own: How do you punish zergs taking the gold? I haven't found a way yet haha.
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11 pool isn't so bad. you just need to check if he's pooling larva. with ffe i can usually still go cannon after nexus and have it finish in time if they opt to make lings, but you may want to err on the safe side and go forge-cannon-nexus just to be safe
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EPT
