The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 112

On November 19 2011 06:11 ForTheDr3am wrote:


Hard to say since there are no pro games to judge from, but I'd say no. Phoenixes don't synergize at all with double forge upgrades and are such a resource-sink. If it is about killing vikings, just getting one storm off on them while focusing with your stalkers will do the job as well. Phoenixes don't really provide enough meat for your army, and are also very vulnerable to EMPs (HTs can at least still merge).

On November 19 2011 06:56 terranmoccasin wrote:


Thanks for the response. You make some pretty some good points, and I agree that their combat value is not great (no meat and can't attack ground) and vulnerable to EMPs. It leads me to think that Phoenix builds are pretty unreliable overall.

What I have been trying out lately though (rank 3 master) is going for a pretty early timing around 12-13 minutes with 2 collosus and 120ish food. I stop phoenix at between 3-5 and tech to collosus very hard off of 2 bases. I make only zealots with about 4 sentries mixed in. I have just been going all-in with no upgrades, but hitting right as my 2nd collosus comes out (thermal lance upgrading, but i dont wait for it to finish). I find that I have just been walking over Terrans if I survive the early pressure and don't lose my phoenix from early harass. It really messes with them when I can pick off 4-5 scvs building stuff while teching up, and most Terrans have been turtling until they have a few turrets and move out with stim and 2 medivacs.

The reason I am asking about phoenix is because from my experience, it really takes drop harass out of the game, since you are the one harassing with higher mobility. Also, the fast collosus timing is so powerful because they cannot get enough vikings AND medivacs to do well vs collosus. The reason I am so uncertain about the build is because I am wondering if a good player can always punish my build early on, since I am weak against bio. ALSO, the attack is a lot weaker when the terran is prepared with 4+ bunkers and scvs already waiting to repair. My wins seem too easy, but my losses seem very silly as well.

I was wondering if its ever possible to open phoenix safely and transition to a really powerful timing attack that's less gimmicky than what i've been doing.

edit: I move out at 12-13 min with barely over 100 food, the attack probably begins more around 14 and i warp in units at a proxy pylon near their base going to close to 120 food.

On November 19 2011 06:12 ZooZ wrote:
diamond player here. I'm having trouble pressuring zergs on larger maps such as tal darim without using stargate (i hate dt harrass too). Trying to figure out how to use gates to pressure but it always seems like i'm overrun by speedlings. I know i can also feign pressure which can make them build more units instead of droning up but i'd like to do a little damage as they are building units as well. Any ideas?

On November 18 2011 10:10 Latedi wrote:


There is just no way that the terran can support all those facilities. He had to cut units from different buildings several times so already there, his timing will be delayed. As you can see he want for a lot of marines so you need more zealot stalker to kill them. You had like 4 immortal I think but he only had 2-3 tanks. You can't produce enough gateway units on 3 gateways so get 4 or 5 total. Also you should keep a probe or something right under his ramp so you can see the second he moves out. This might help you prepare a little. Then of course dont let him siege to easily. You want to delay him if possible. He didn't have many banshees so faking and engagement should be really great for you (forcing stim and tanks sieging means wasted time and HP for the terran). If he has banshees he can pop into your main, that's the danger of that. Another thing you need to work on is your forcefields, you had the chance to catch almost all of his marines but you killed maybe 5. More zealots :F



Gl hf guys.

On November 19 2011 19:34 Latedi wrote:
Hmm which reminds me, chronoboosting 2-3 zealots after a forge FE and attack their third is really fun. How do I scout their third if they get speed and camp outside my natural? Some zergs are so good with running speedlings around that you can't hide a probe either sometimes.

On November 19 2011 23:03 ThePianoDentist wrote:


thanks

On November 19 2011 23:10 Xenorawks wrote:


What you can do is, 1 probe pylon scout, 1 probe forge scout. Each go in opposite directions.
This ensures you are safe vs any 6pool.
After that, 1 probe will be used to do the usual stuff, check pool gas, block natural etc.
Another probe hide it somewhere else near the 3rd where you think his lings won't spot you Between 5-6 minutes you can go and take a peek at zerg's 3rd. If you get lucky, you might even get to cannon it down if zerg is careless and doesn't have OV/lings scouting all the time.

On November 20 2011 00:43 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Sending out 2 Zealots and a probe behind it (if I completely wall off, I'll keep one of the probes with which I scouted in front of my wall) is a rather reliable way to scout. At least it is what I do when I FFE, and it will generally allow you to scout the third, maybe set up a proxy Pylon as well as force a minor response from Zerg. It also comes in time to scout random Roach busts or something similar.

On November 20 2011 01:09 Latedi wrote:


Nice Thanks. Do you chronoboost the zealots? And say you start a twilight, stargate or robo and then see some aggression coming, how do you react? My additional gates are always kind of late hehe

On November 20 2011 08:09 coL.rsvp wrote:


No such thing as a "best" anything build.

On November 20 2011 08:09 coL.rsvp wrote:


No such thing as a "best" anything build.

On November 20 2011 02:20 ForTheDr3am wrote:


Whether I chrono my zealots is somewhat random, depending on whether I went gateway/cannon/pylon or pylon/cannon/gateway, and whether I plan to chrono warpgate/+1 weapons. The only real response against most busts/aggression you can do is build cannons, chrono sentries and build a second layer of your wall/more cannons during the attack. Don't overreact though, there are still enough Zergs who will randomly build units and if you slap down 7 cannons while cutting all probe production you'll end up behind. 3 cannons behind a full wall with sentries should hold everything really, and try to get the additional gateways up anyways. If you took your natural gases, you probably should pull out/not mine from there for a while.

On November 20 2011 08:53 happyness wrote:


...Ok. Let me rephrase then. I was looking around on liquipedia and using search and haven't found much in the way of expand BO's for PvP. I was wondering if there are some good builds that good players use with a (somewhat) safe way to expand early in PvP.

On November 20 2011 09:33 Dujek wrote:
How are you guys who FFE in PvZ dealing with Random players who get Zerg. It's normally too late to FFE by the time I scout them and I don't know another standard macro build to use in PvZ. Should I bother learning one just for one third of one matchup? I'm considering just doing a 4gate in PvR when they get Zerg just to end the game quickly. I'm Platinum so I'm betting it'll beat a lot of the random players even if it's cheesey.