EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 113
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On November 20 2011 14:33 Kluey wrote: How do you block a cannon rush on Metal where he puts the pylon in the natural, one cannon on low ground then mass pylon/cannon on high ground. I know he's doing it and still can't stop it.. :S What I do: 3 pylon your ramp. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
It's pretty hard to defend depending on when you scout it but yeah, pyloning your ramp is a good idea. You can also get a forge of your own and cannon his cannons. Sometimes you can even cannon rush him back if you defend trollololo | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
I lost barely to a fourgate because I couldn't get a fifth sentry out. Perhaps I missed a chronoboost somewhere, but I've never really had a set BO for 1-gate robo. On maps with bigger rush distances it's not too bad, but it seems like the zealot stalker hit so fast on maps like Shattered. My sentry closest to having a FF was at 49 when he got high ground from the late FF. T.T | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:24 mizU wrote: Does anyone have a build order for 1-gate robo? I lost barely to a fourgate because I couldn't get a fifth sentry out. Perhaps I missed a chronoboost somewhere, but I've never really had a set BO for 1-gate robo. On maps with bigger rush distances it's not too bad, but it seems like the zealot stalker hit so fast on maps like Shattered. My sentry closest to having a FF was at 49 when he got high ground from the late FF. T.T This might be what you are looking for. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277466 I don't think you can stick to only 1 gate against a 4gate anyways, you really ned 2-3 of them in total. I have been doing a build where i chronoboost units slightly to delay any 4gates and go 1gate robo but I then always add on more gates in case of a 4gate. It's like the 3 stalker rush except you go gate robo gate (gate) instead of gate gate robo (gate), and I replace a stalker with a zealot. | ||
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Xenorawks
158 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:24 mizU wrote: Does anyone have a build order for 1-gate robo? I lost barely to a fourgate because I couldn't get a fifth sentry out. Perhaps I missed a chronoboost somewhere, but I've never really had a set BO for 1-gate robo. On maps with bigger rush distances it's not too bad, but it seems like the zealot stalker hit so fast on maps like Shattered. My sentry closest to having a FF was at 49 when he got high ground from the late FF. T.T One of them(although I personally dislike this build order): http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Gate_Robo There are actually many many variations of 1 gate robo, try tweaking it here and there to suit your style more. You can also tweak your 1 gate robo build aiming towards your mid-game goal(twilight robo, 1 base colo, immortal expand or whatever that suits you best). Day9 did a daily on this too, check out different 1 gate robo builds by the progamers http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-373-p1-pvp-3-gate-robo-variations-5720293 | ||
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Xaeldaren
Ireland588 Posts
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On November 21 2011 00:28 Xaeldaren wrote: I'm having a hard time dealing with Baneling busts vs my FFE when I open Stargate. I just don't have the gas to afford multiple Sentries. Is this a matter of build order loss or just poor building placement on my part? Maps like Antiga Shipyard have pretty awkward wall-offs and they're usually not tight so a bunch of Banelings just wreck my wall and lead to dozens of lings leading to a gg. Does anyone have any advice? Post a replay. It's impossible to tell what you're doing wrong without a replay. Possible problems include lack of scouting, bad sim city, and not efficient BO, as you should be able to afford constant sentries from your first gateway. It is, however, definitely not BO loss. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 21 2011 00:28 Xaeldaren wrote: I'm having a hard time dealing with Baneling busts vs my FFE when I open Stargate. I just don't have the gas to afford multiple Sentries. Is this a matter of build order loss or just poor building placement on my part? Maps like Antiga Shipyard have pretty awkward wall-offs and they're usually not tight so a bunch of Banelings just wreck my wall and lead to dozens of lings leading to a gg. Does anyone have any advice? What kind of baneling bust? If he does it off 1 base you need to get as many sentries and cannons as possible, no stargate or you die. This is quite easily scouted however. If he does it off 2 bases you should have at least one sentry out in time and if you got a good wall with maybe 2 cannons you shouldn't have any problems holding it off. | ||
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xlava
United States676 Posts
On November 21 2011 06:58 Latedi wrote: What kind of baneling bust? If he does it off 1 base you need to get as many sentries and cannons as possible, no stargate or you die. This is quite easily scouted however. If he does it off 2 bases you should have at least one sentry out in time and if you got a good wall with maybe 2 cannons you shouldn't have any problems holding it off. Oh man I have a sick game of me holding that stuff without stargate tech. It is possible if you play smart. Let me go find it... Nvm it was versus a roach ling all in, and a 1 gate expand. Sorry  | ||
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Chelch
United Kingdom159 Posts
I've looked at some replays, but I can't find many decent ones, so if anyone also knew any good replays for reference I'd appreciate that. | ||
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
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xlava
United States676 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:35 Corrosive wrote: What are some good PvP all ins? i don't really think 4gate is very effective anymore but i still hate pvp, so i just want to get them over with fast. Thanks Thats kinda tough. Considering how volatile the PvP matchup is there aren't really any definite all ins anymore. If you do damage with the 4gate then its not all in. I think the only wildly accepted PvP all in is the korean 4gate. But 4gate, proxy gate with cannons, proxy dts, stuff like that are all good all ins. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:24 mizU wrote: Does anyone have a build order for 1-gate robo? I lost barely to a fourgate because I couldn't get a fifth sentry out. Perhaps I missed a chronoboost somewhere, but I've never really had a set BO for 1-gate robo. On maps with bigger rush distances it's not too bad, but it seems like the zealot stalker hit so fast on maps like Shattered. My sentry closest to having a FF was at 49 when he got high ground from the late FF. T.T I don't think you can really hold a 4 gate w/ 1 gate robo. Maybe if you play perfectly, but generally 1 gate robo is greedy and you should only do it if you don't suspect 4 gate | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:35 Corrosive wrote: What are some good PvP all ins? i don't really think 4gate is very effective anymore but i still hate pvp, so i just want to get them over with fast. Thanks cannon rush, proxy 2 gate, warp prism 4 gate, 4 gate blink, etc | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:35 Corrosive wrote: What are some good PvP all ins? i don't really think 4gate is very effective anymore but i still hate pvp, so i just want to get them over with fast. Thanks I 4 gated a lot today, successfully. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:35 Corrosive wrote: What are some good PvP all ins? i don't really think 4gate is very effective anymore but i still hate pvp, so i just want to get them over with fast. Thanks Proxy 2-gating every PvP will yield a quite respectable win-rate and will drastically improve your skirmish micro. | ||
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Xenorawks
158 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:41 SoKHo wrote: I don't think you can really hold a 4 gate w/ 1 gate robo. Maybe if you play perfectly, but generally 1 gate robo is greedy and you should only do it if you don't suspect 4 gate Of course you can't just stay on 1 gate 1 robo for 1 base, 1 gate robo openings usually will lead to 3 gates robo and maybe a twilight/robo bay/expo after that. 1 gate robo openings is not greedy. 1 gate robo can definitely hold off a 5.45 minute 4gate easily as long as you know your stuff. You don't have to be perfect, just know when to make or don't make sentries. 1 gate robo can be used as a blind standard opener regardless of whether your opponent goes for a 4 gate or not. 1 gate robo is only unsafe vs 4 gate on Taldarim altar because you don't have a ramp. 1 gate robo is the safest build out there that opens up to every single possible tech path (except Pheonix) and generally doesn't have a hard counter to it. Early obs counters DTs and you get to know what your opponent is doing so you can respond appropriately. You can easily follow up with robo-blink, colossi all-in, immortal expand etc. 1 gate robo is definitely on par(or should I say, even better) with any other anti-4 gate openers like geiko's/MC defensive 3 gate or 3 stalker rush. Exceptions only on Taldarim. | ||
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BlueyD
Canada437 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Holding the hatch cancel roach all-in after a forge fast expand Leenock used an interesting build against Naniwa during the MLG Providence grand finals. The hatch-cancel starts just like a 14 gas 14 pool 21 hatch, but a roach warren goes down shortly afterwards, the expansion hatch gets canceled a bit later, and an unreactive protoss has one cannon and 2 or 3 units when the roaches and lings hit. I have a few questions on defending this build and not being behind afterwards... 1. How can you even tell that this is coming? The zerg's 4 lings are likely to chase the probe out of his base before the roach warren goes down. It's only possible to keep a probe alive for so long, even against slow lings. At best, it seems the protoss will see 3 drones in gas, a situation not exclusive to this build. Naniwa also sent his first 2 zealots down to the watchtower during the Tal Darim game, hoping to see the roaches incoming... But lings were there to take care of them, and it's not really possible upon scouting a bunch of lings to tell whether there's a bunch of roaches to follow or not. There's a big risk of overreacting here. 2. What's the optimal reaction? Seems to me it's about delaying with forcefields, walling in and getting the first void ray out as soon as possible, if you're sure it's this build coming... Does building a cannon or 2 upon scouting 3 probes in gas (with the probe) and a lot of lings (with zealots) leave the protoss behind if it turns out the zerg is not all-inning? 3. Does this just straight up kill forge fast expand builds on open natural maps where the 'wall' will include the nexus, such as metalopolis, Xel'Naga, Shattered and such? Should people never FFE on these maps? | ||
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eugalp
United States203 Posts
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