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On November 22 2011 09:29 PoisedYeTi wrote:
PVP question:
What in gods name do i do if we both go 3 gate phoenix?
Can i transition out or am i stuck perpetually making phoenix incase i lose air dominance and is that really an important factor in PvP?
You should try getting +1 air attack and get Voidrays + Zealots. Focus things down with the Voidrays during the engagement one at a time.
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On November 22 2011 09:29 PoisedYeTi wrote:
PVP question:
What in gods name do i do if we both go 3 gate phoenix?
Can i transition out or am i stuck perpetually making phoenix incase i lose air dominance and is that really an important factor in PvP?
I would say to keep making phoenixes until you have more than him. Then you can go harass with them.
If you have less then him, just defend the harass with stalkers + phoenix until you have more than him.
If you feel you'll never catch up, you can always try to sneak a dark shrine somewhere on the map and hope for a free win.
I'm not sure about the zealot transition because that means that you're totally giving up on your existing phoenix (in a straight up fight they'll just get demolished with no stalker support) and then your zealots will be free kills for your opponent's phoenixes. I you really want to transition into something else, blink stalkers would be better I think.
But the best solution is still to keep massing phoenix till you have more then your opponent and expo with the leftover minerals 
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Jesus, RSVP and Monk, you guys make my protoss heart go pitter patter, you're a credit to the community.
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On November 22 2011 09:38 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 09:29 PoisedYeTi wrote:
PVP question:
What in gods name do i do if we both go 3 gate phoenix?
Can i transition out or am i stuck perpetually making phoenix incase i lose air dominance and is that really an important factor in PvP? You should try getting +1 air attack and get Voidrays + Zealots. Focus things down with the Voidrays during the engagement one at a time.
Won't the voidrays die to his phoenixes?
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On November 22 2011 00:05 mizU wrote:... I just had a guy turtle and then go mass muta. I tried to push out... I killed his third but then he came in and with a HUGE ball of mutas just started killing everything. Do I just play defensive the whole time? It was so frustrating. What should I have done? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15470
Any advice?
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On November 22 2011 19:51 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 00:05 mizU wrote:... I just had a guy turtle and then go mass muta. I tried to push out... I killed his third but then he came in and with a HUGE ball of mutas just started killing everything. Do I just play defensive the whole time? It was so frustrating. What should I have done? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15470 Any advice?
I'd love to but I can't watch the replay :p
I have no idea what went wrong for you but normally you want some upgrades and a stalker zealot HT army with some support from archons and sentries. Proceed to make 5+ cannons per base on three bases and go base race him when you are starting to get a high supply, might as well leave a few HTs. This way he cannot destroy your base nor your army. Defend a LOT and then go offensive.
User was warned for this post
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On November 22 2011 20:05 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 19:51 mizU wrote:On November 22 2011 00:05 mizU wrote:... I just had a guy turtle and then go mass muta. I tried to push out... I killed his third but then he came in and with a HUGE ball of mutas just started killing everything. Do I just play defensive the whole time? It was so frustrating. What should I have done? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15470 Any advice? I'd love to but I can't watch the replay :p I have no idea what went wrong for you but normally you want some upgrades and a stalker zealot HT army with some support from archons and sentries. Proceed to make 5+ cannons per base on three bases and go base race him when you are starting to get a high supply, might as well leave a few HTs. This way he cannot destroy your base nor your army. Defend a LOT and then go offensive.
I was 3-2 and had something like 6 HT with full energy. But when I went to go kill his natural... he had something like 12-15 spines at his natural. Maybe I should've gotten a WP or something? I dunno.. I defended for what I thought was a reasonable time, but I'm just really confused. He turtled HARD. And then got a ridiculous amount of mutas. Then if I pushed out he would kill my base. I had templar with storms and hit nice storms, but he just ran home transfused and then came back... I have no idea.
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On November 22 2011 23:01 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 20:05 Latedi wrote:On November 22 2011 19:51 mizU wrote:On November 22 2011 00:05 mizU wrote:... I just had a guy turtle and then go mass muta. I tried to push out... I killed his third but then he came in and with a HUGE ball of mutas just started killing everything. Do I just play defensive the whole time? It was so frustrating. What should I have done? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15470 Any advice? I'd love to but I can't watch the replay :p I have no idea what went wrong for you but normally you want some upgrades and a stalker zealot HT army with some support from archons and sentries. Proceed to make 5+ cannons per base on three bases and go base race him when you are starting to get a high supply, might as well leave a few HTs. This way he cannot destroy your base nor your army. Defend a LOT and then go offensive. I was 3-2 and had something like 6 HT with full energy. But when I went to go kill his natural... he had something like 12-15 spines at his natural. Maybe I should've gotten a WP or something? I dunno.. I defended for what I thought was a reasonable time, but I'm just really confused. He turtled HARD. And then got a ridiculous amount of mutas. Then if I pushed out he would kill my base. I had templar with storms and hit nice storms, but he just ran home transfused and then came back... I have no idea.
Against mass spine turtle, you want some immortals. WhiteRa always gets like 2 or 3 when moving out I think.
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I suppose... but I feel like against mutas and spines a few immortals wouldn't help much...
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If he really got mutas only you should push the spinecrawlerwall and harass with a WP in his Main. His mutas cannot be everywhere to defend
Immortals are very helpful with pushing spines...
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On November 22 2011 23:01 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 20:05 Latedi wrote:On November 22 2011 19:51 mizU wrote:On November 22 2011 00:05 mizU wrote:... I just had a guy turtle and then go mass muta. I tried to push out... I killed his third but then he came in and with a HUGE ball of mutas just started killing everything. Do I just play defensive the whole time? It was so frustrating. What should I have done? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15470 Any advice? I'd love to but I can't watch the replay :p I have no idea what went wrong for you but normally you want some upgrades and a stalker zealot HT army with some support from archons and sentries. Proceed to make 5+ cannons per base on three bases and go base race him when you are starting to get a high supply, might as well leave a few HTs. This way he cannot destroy your base nor your army. Defend a LOT and then go offensive. I was 3-2 and had something like 6 HT with full energy. But when I went to go kill his natural... he had something like 12-15 spines at his natural. Maybe I should've gotten a WP or something? I dunno.. I defended for what I thought was a reasonable time, but I'm just really confused. He turtled HARD. And then got a ridiculous amount of mutas. Then if I pushed out he would kill my base. I had templar with storms and hit nice storms, but he just ran home transfused and then came back... I have no idea.
#1 reason you lost was because you pushed out too early. You know that as soon as you move out he's going to counter into your base. You should have waited for a bigger army so that you'd have enough to both attack and defend at the same time.
#2 reason was that you didn't have enough gateways. I think you had 7 gateways on 3 base while you were getting your 4th. You actually should have been able to clean up the mutas with stalker warp-ins/reinforcements since you got some nice storms off and he kinda just sat in them without dodging, but then he killed half your gateways and you just couldn't macro well.
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On November 23 2011 03:04 coL.rsvp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 23:01 mizU wrote:On November 22 2011 20:05 Latedi wrote:On November 22 2011 19:51 mizU wrote:On November 22 2011 00:05 mizU wrote:... I just had a guy turtle and then go mass muta. I tried to push out... I killed his third but then he came in and with a HUGE ball of mutas just started killing everything. Do I just play defensive the whole time? It was so frustrating. What should I have done? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15470 Any advice? I'd love to but I can't watch the replay :p I have no idea what went wrong for you but normally you want some upgrades and a stalker zealot HT army with some support from archons and sentries. Proceed to make 5+ cannons per base on three bases and go base race him when you are starting to get a high supply, might as well leave a few HTs. This way he cannot destroy your base nor your army. Defend a LOT and then go offensive. I was 3-2 and had something like 6 HT with full energy. But when I went to go kill his natural... he had something like 12-15 spines at his natural. Maybe I should've gotten a WP or something? I dunno.. I defended for what I thought was a reasonable time, but I'm just really confused. He turtled HARD. And then got a ridiculous amount of mutas. Then if I pushed out he would kill my base. I had templar with storms and hit nice storms, but he just ran home transfused and then came back... I have no idea. #1 reason you lost was because you pushed out too early. You know that as soon as you move out he's going to counter into your base. You should have waited for a bigger army so that you'd have enough to both attack and defend at the same time. #2 reason was that you didn't have enough gateways. I think you had 7 gateways on 3 base while you were getting your 4th. You actually should have been able to clean up the mutas with stalker warp-ins/reinforcements since you got some nice storms off and he kinda just sat in them without dodging, but then he killed half your gateways and you just couldn't macro well.
So defend with more cannons and templar then push out when maxed or close to maxed?
Thanks~~
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hi wondered if anyone could help. the only all-in that i'm really struggling with at the moment even when i scout it is 2 proxy gate zealot in PvP. here is a replay.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15520
i scouted on 9 because id just played him and he did the same thing. i matched his gateway count but just couldnt get enough zealots out. should i just be fully cutting probes. could i then use this extra money to get a third gate to hold it off, or should i try and get a cyber core and gas so when i have a stalker i can hold off any further zealot pressure with stalker micro? or should i stick with only zealots until i have held off the pressure. or do i just need to stick on two gates but micro my zealots and probes better?
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Could someone please help me?
I'm new to Protoss and I would like to know one build for each Matchup.
I've been reading Liquidpedia and I'm wondering if I should go 12 gateway or 13 gateway?
Can you PM the answer or my questions since It is hard finding this thread?
Thank you.
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United States8476 Posts
On November 23 2011 09:22 ThePianoDentist wrote:hi wondered if anyone could help. the only all-in that i'm really struggling with at the moment even when i scout it is 2 proxy gate zealot in PvP. here is a replay. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15520i scouted on 9 because id just played him and he did the same thing. i matched his gateway count but just couldnt get enough zealots out. should i just be fully cutting probes. could i then use this extra money to get a third gate to hold it off, or should i try and get a cyber core and gas so when i have a stalker i can hold off any further zealot pressure with stalker micro? or should i stick with only zealots until i have held off the pressure. or do i just need to stick on two gates but micro my zealots and probes better?
Don't wall off versus protoss. It's even worse than normal in your situation, because you let his proxy gates be even closer to your buildings than normal.
Don't make a gas versus proxy 2 gate.
Your 2nd gate was late.
Because of these reasons, you let him get a 2 zealot advantage over you and attack your first pylon.
Do not engage him unless you have equal or more zealot numbers. If he has more zealots, wait for your zealot reinforcements and let him attack a pylon until your they come.
Don't pull all your probes. Only pull enough probes so that you have a probe advantage over him. For example, if he brings 1 probe with his 2 zealots, you should fight with 2-3 probes plus your 2 zealots.
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On November 23 2011 09:29 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 09:22 ThePianoDentist wrote:hi wondered if anyone could help. the only all-in that i'm really struggling with at the moment even when i scout it is 2 proxy gate zealot in PvP. here is a replay. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15520i scouted on 9 because id just played him and he did the same thing. i matched his gateway count but just couldnt get enough zealots out. should i just be fully cutting probes. could i then use this extra money to get a third gate to hold it off, or should i try and get a cyber core and gas so when i have a stalker i can hold off any further zealot pressure with stalker micro? or should i stick with only zealots until i have held off the pressure. or do i just need to stick on two gates but micro my zealots and probes better? Don't wall off versus protoss. It's even worse than normal in your situation, because you let his proxy gates be even closer to your buildings than normal. Don't make a 2nd gas versus proxy 2 gate. Your 2nd gate was late. Because of these reasons, you let him get a 2 zealot advantage over you and attack your first pylon. Do not engage him unless you have equal or more zealot numbers. If he has more zealots, wait for your zealot reinforcements and let him attack a pylon until your they come. Don't pull all your probes. Only pull enough probes so that you have a probe advantage over him. For example, if he brings 1 probe with his 2 zealots, you should fight with 2-3 probes plus your 2 zealots.
yeah occasionally i just panic and just go "PULL ALL OF THE PROBES!"
does dont make a second gas mean i should still make a first gas, should i put my probes into gas to have enough for warp gate and a stalker for when i feel comfortable enough or have the money to throw down a cyber core
why oh why did they remove the shield battery! 
also should i 9 scout every pvp rather than after gateway just incase for this or cannon rushes?
finally how many probes should i go up to in macro games? i tend to just randomly cut probes about 13 minutes in as otherwise i looked at my replays and was going over 100.
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United States8476 Posts
On November 23 2011 09:38 ThePianoDentist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 09:29 NrGmonk wrote:On November 23 2011 09:22 ThePianoDentist wrote:hi wondered if anyone could help. the only all-in that i'm really struggling with at the moment even when i scout it is 2 proxy gate zealot in PvP. here is a replay. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15520i scouted on 9 because id just played him and he did the same thing. i matched his gateway count but just couldnt get enough zealots out. should i just be fully cutting probes. could i then use this extra money to get a third gate to hold it off, or should i try and get a cyber core and gas so when i have a stalker i can hold off any further zealot pressure with stalker micro? or should i stick with only zealots until i have held off the pressure. or do i just need to stick on two gates but micro my zealots and probes better? Don't wall off versus protoss. It's even worse than normal in your situation, because you let his proxy gates be even closer to your buildings than normal. Don't make a 2nd gas versus proxy 2 gate. Your 2nd gate was late. Because of these reasons, you let him get a 2 zealot advantage over you and attack your first pylon. Do not engage him unless you have equal or more zealot numbers. If he has more zealots, wait for your zealot reinforcements and let him attack a pylon until your they come. Don't pull all your probes. Only pull enough probes so that you have a probe advantage over him. For example, if he brings 1 probe with his 2 zealots, you should fight with 2-3 probes plus your 2 zealots. yeah occasionally i just panic and just go "PULL ALL OF THE PROBES!" does dont make a second gas mean i should still make a first gas, should i put my probes into gas to have enough for warp gate and a stalker for when i feel comfortable enough or have the money to throw down a cyber core why oh why did they remove the shield battery! also should i 9 scout every pvp rather than after gateway just incase for this or cannon rushes? finally how many probes should i go up to in macro games? i tend to just randomly cut probes about 13 minutes in as otherwise i looked at my replays and was going over 100.
My bad, I meant don't make any gas vs proxy 2 gate.
You must either 9 scout or 12/13 scout, checking the common proxy gateway and cannon rush spots in PvP.
How many probes you have depends on how many bases you're on. Around 75 is good on 3 base. Don't go over 80-85 no matter how many bases you're on as protoss.
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On November 23 2011 09:22 ThePianoDentist wrote:hi wondered if anyone could help. the only all-in that i'm really struggling with at the moment even when i scout it is 2 proxy gate zealot in PvP. here is a replay. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15520i scouted on 9 because id just played him and he did the same thing. i matched his gateway count but just couldnt get enough zealots out. should i just be fully cutting probes. could i then use this extra money to get a third gate to hold it off, or should i try and get a cyber core and gas so when i have a stalker i can hold off any further zealot pressure with stalker micro? or should i stick with only zealots until i have held off the pressure. or do i just need to stick on two gates but micro my zealots and probes better?
To add to what NrGMonk already said,
As soon as you scout it you need to
-pull guys out of gas and stop probe production
-don't let your zealots die no matter what (in the replay you a move them and let them die). You should always be running away from him when he has more zealots, and making him run away when you have more. But never fight a fight that you're going to lose.
-Make a third gateway as soon as you are confident that you'll have enough resources leftover to make non stop chronoboosted zealots. When I scout it soon enough, I make 2nd and 3rd gateways almost at the same time.
-OR, you can defend the easy way and get forge + cannon. if you scouted too late. For your skill level I would recommend doing this. Forge is good for 2 reason, it's easy mode defense vs proxy gateways, and if you know your opponent is cheesing but don't know what he his cheesing (your case since you scout an empty base), forge is also the best answer to cannon rushes.
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On November 23 2011 03:10 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 03:04 coL.rsvp wrote:On November 22 2011 23:01 mizU wrote:On November 22 2011 20:05 Latedi wrote:On November 22 2011 19:51 mizU wrote:On November 22 2011 00:05 mizU wrote:... I just had a guy turtle and then go mass muta. I tried to push out... I killed his third but then he came in and with a HUGE ball of mutas just started killing everything. Do I just play defensive the whole time? It was so frustrating. What should I have done? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15470 Any advice? I'd love to but I can't watch the replay :p I have no idea what went wrong for you but normally you want some upgrades and a stalker zealot HT army with some support from archons and sentries. Proceed to make 5+ cannons per base on three bases and go base race him when you are starting to get a high supply, might as well leave a few HTs. This way he cannot destroy your base nor your army. Defend a LOT and then go offensive. I was 3-2 and had something like 6 HT with full energy. But when I went to go kill his natural... he had something like 12-15 spines at his natural. Maybe I should've gotten a WP or something? I dunno.. I defended for what I thought was a reasonable time, but I'm just really confused. He turtled HARD. And then got a ridiculous amount of mutas. Then if I pushed out he would kill my base. I had templar with storms and hit nice storms, but he just ran home transfused and then came back... I have no idea. #1 reason you lost was because you pushed out too early. You know that as soon as you move out he's going to counter into your base. You should have waited for a bigger army so that you'd have enough to both attack and defend at the same time. #2 reason was that you didn't have enough gateways. I think you had 7 gateways on 3 base while you were getting your 4th. You actually should have been able to clean up the mutas with stalker warp-ins/reinforcements since you got some nice storms off and he kinda just sat in them without dodging, but then he killed half your gateways and you just couldn't macro well. So defend with more cannons and templar then push out when maxed or close to maxed? Thanks~~
Yup, and you might want to avoid the army of spines xD Just go for his third etc and force a more favorable engagement. When a zerg really masses a ton of mutas you don't have to worry that much about expanding, he will have it easy to shut it down but his army is also weak in engagements as you might have noticed when you storm the muta/ling 
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Hey guys, just uploaded this demo and was looking for criticisms and tips. I've been playing for a while, but just got back into the game, so I'm slightly rusty. Here's the link - http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15524. Thanks!
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EPT
