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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
By the way, what are you supposed to do against a front door nydus Hydra/ling bust off of a FFE? I don't see it very often in pro games so I'm not very sure what the optimal response is - I remember Idra once saying that against a FFE that goes void ray opening its an auto win (not sure if it still holds true though).
Cannons/gateway units don't seem to work too well because your building placements stops your own units from getting a good concave, and going out through the choke is suicide; which means the gateway/cyber/forge is pretty much going to be sniped.
Scouting wise it looks pretty much like any 2 base plays that gets gas fast (but that could also mean mutas or infestor builds) and hits around 9.30~10min mark, it seems the timings are kind of tight to get the right units (templars/collosus) in time even if you don't open with stargate/voidray. I suppose you could rush for storm everytime if you don't scout a fast third, since templars are great against pretty much all zerg units which are used in 2 base plays, but not sure if thats the right response?
Don't have any replays atm since I just changed computers, but I'd still like some general advice first regardless, thanks! ^^
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On November 24 2011 09:33 Zealot Lord wrote:
By the way, what are you supposed to do against a front door nydus Hydra/ling bust off of a FFE? I don't see it very often in pro games so I'm not very sure what the optimal response is - I remember Idra once saying that against a FFE that goes void ray opening its an auto win (not sure if it still holds true though).
Cannons/gateway units don't seem to work too well because your building placements stops your own units from getting a good concave, and going out through the choke is suicide; which means the gateway/cyber/forge is pretty much going to be sniped.
Scouting wise it looks pretty much like any 2 base plays that gets gas fast (but that could also mean mutas or infestor builds) and hits around 9.30~10min mark, it seems the timings are kind of tight to get the right units (templars/collosus) in time even if you don't open with stargate/voidray. I suppose you could rush for storm everytime if you don't scout a fast third, since templars are great against pretty much all zerg units which are used in 2 base plays, but not sure if thats the right response?
Don't have any replays atm since I just changed computers, but I'd still like some general advice first regardless, thanks! ^^
No need to rush anything. If you see him getting hydras and no roaches or even a roach warren you should know what's up. By this time you should use the stargate to get as many phoenixes as you can and then get maybe ~5 gateways depending on what timing it is. The wall will pretty much go down so get a mixture of sentry stalker zealot while you wait and maybe even some cannons to create a second "wall", or rather a bunch of stuff capable of doing damage. When you engage you want the guardian shield to be active at all times, and you need to be very careful with your sentries because hydras kill them so fast it's insane. If you are using zealots you can forcefield behind the hydras as well instead of only cutting units off.
I should also mention I have seen players rush for colossus, making a void ray and maybe a phoenix or two only to force hydras. This might be risky though, especially against a build which intended to get hydras from the beginning. Another thing you might want to consider, if you know hydra ling is coming, is to scout around outside your base. Take down the overlods you can find with your air units and cover some ground with the rest of your army. Just be careful if he decides to nydus your main/natural or walk his units all the way.
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Thanks Latedi! I had some additional questions, but I'll wait till I next play against it first.
But yeah, I always felt forcing hydras with airplay and rushing for collosus is pretty dangerous because there's a timing when they hit before thermal lance is done, and holding it off with 6 range collosus is quite difficult - depends on the map though of course.
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Hello! MooSlapper new here :D Give moo some tips plz
I play P mostly--- some questinos about P builds?
Moo usually 1 gate FE & it works great if I can survive past say, 10-12 minutes. On large maps I 20 food HuK Expand w/ WG chrono, and on smaller maps I 1 gate FE w/ 1 gas at around 24 food with 2 units on the field (tailored to what my probe saw). The good thing about 1 gate FE, is that if played properly, it can hold MOST Terran moves, but not all and many T attacks are very difficult to hold. T has learned this, and 1 gate FE is very easy for T to scout, so I am wondering if this should still be my "Go-TO build" all the time. My stalker usually arrives in time to poke and determine if a marine/scv cheese is going down, in which case I cancel my nexus and hold him off of 2/3 gateways chronoing stalkers and sentry. Sadly, even with this, I feel like I need GM micro to secure wins. Also, it sucks when he is really just gasless expanding. 3rax is still dangerous but I am getting good at holding these off, but the 1 base Thor rush w/ scVS gets me everytime =-| The 1 gate FE simply cannot hold this rush as far as I can tell.... or perhaps I just don't know what to do? I find that I can reduce enemy DPS by focus fireing the marines and mauraders first, then go for the SCVS and finally the thor last-- delaying the attack as much as possible for more warp ins. You can't get the SCVs with
zealots with a million marines shooting at them, and you can't take down the thor with all those scvs repairing, so I find this best. How about you?
Anyway--- I am starting to wonder if maybe I can do a safer macro build for PvT on smaller maps. I hear about 1 gate robo, 2 gate robo, 3 gate FE.... Anyone have any recommendations for GO-TO builds? 1 gate robo soudns nice for the early observer and quick tech path, but against marine scv rush I fear the lack of gateway units.... 2 gate robo sounds like it'd be very safe but if Terran FEs wont I be way behind in macro?
HAELP!
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On November 24 2011 17:15 MooSlapper wrote:
Hello! MooSlapper new here :D Give moo some tips plz
I play P mostly--- some questinos about P builds?
Moo usually 1 gate FE & it works great if I can survive past say, 10-12 minutes. On large maps I 20 food HuK Expand w/ WG chrono, and on smaller maps I 1 gate FE w/ 1 gas at around 24 food with 2 units on the field (tailored to what my probe saw). The good thing about 1 gate FE, is that if played properly, it can hold MOST Terran moves, but not all and many T attacks are very difficult to hold. T has learned this, and 1 gate FE is very easy for T to scout, so I am wondering if this should still be my "Go-TO build" all the time. My stalker usually arrives in time to poke and determine if a marine/scv cheese is going down, in which case I cancel my nexus and hold him off of 2/3 gateways chronoing stalkers and sentry. Sadly, even with this, I feel like I need GM micro to secure wins. Also, it sucks when he is really just gasless expanding. 3rax is still dangerous but I am getting good at holding these off, but the 1 base Thor rush w/ scVS gets me everytime =-| The 1 gate FE simply cannot hold this rush as far as I can tell.... or perhaps I just don't know what to do? I find that I can reduce enemy DPS by focus fireing the marines and mauraders first, then go for the SCVS and finally the thor last-- delaying the attack as much as possible for more warp ins. You can't get the SCVs with
zealots with a million marines shooting at them, and you can't take down the thor with all those scvs repairing, so I find this best. How about you?
Anyway--- I am starting to wonder if maybe I can do a safer macro build for PvT on smaller maps. I hear about 1 gate robo, 2 gate robo, 3 gate FE.... Anyone have any recommendations for GO-TO builds? 1 gate robo soudns nice for the early observer and quick tech path, but against marine scv rush I fear the lack of gateway units.... 2 gate robo sounds like it'd be very safe but if Terran FEs wont I be way behind in macro?
HAELP!
What are you trying to ask? If you are looking for safe builds then theres 2 gate robo / 3 gate expand.
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On November 24 2011 17:15 MooSlapper wrote:
Hello! MooSlapper new here :D Give moo some tips plz
I play P mostly--- some questinos about P builds?
Moo usually 1 gate FE & it works great if I can survive past say, 10-12 minutes. On large maps I 20 food HuK Expand w/ WG chrono, and on smaller maps I 1 gate FE w/ 1 gas at around 24 food with 2 units on the field (tailored to what my probe saw). The good thing about 1 gate FE, is that if played properly, it can hold MOST Terran moves, but not all and many T attacks are very difficult to hold. T has learned this, and 1 gate FE is very easy for T to scout, so I am wondering if this should still be my "Go-TO build" all the time. My stalker usually arrives in time to poke and determine if a marine/scv cheese is going down, in which case I cancel my nexus and hold him off of 2/3 gateways chronoing stalkers and sentry. Sadly, even with this, I feel like I need GM micro to secure wins. Also, it sucks when he is really just gasless expanding. 3rax is still dangerous but I am getting good at holding these off, but the 1 base Thor rush w/ scVS gets me everytime =-| The 1 gate FE simply cannot hold this rush as far as I can tell.... or perhaps I just don't know what to do? I find that I can reduce enemy DPS by focus fireing the marines and mauraders first, then go for the SCVS and finally the thor last-- delaying the attack as much as possible for more warp ins. You can't get the SCVs with
zealots with a million marines shooting at them, and you can't take down the thor with all those scvs repairing, so I find this best. How about you?
Anyway--- I am starting to wonder if maybe I can do a safer macro build for PvT on smaller maps. I hear about 1 gate robo, 2 gate robo, 3 gate FE.... Anyone have any recommendations for GO-TO builds? 1 gate robo soudns nice for the early observer and quick tech path, but against marine scv rush I fear the lack of gateway units.... 2 gate robo sounds like it'd be very safe but if Terran FEs wont I be way behind in macro?
HAELP!
1 Gate FE is my "go-to build" and I can assure you, there's is no problem with it. On certain maps I might 3 gate FE(if I feel I can put lots of pressure), but almost always I do a 1 gate FE. If you think you have problem holding off early aggression, do a slightly later 1 Gate FE, that is get the zealot and stalker(or maybe 2) out before throwing down the nexus so you can at least be a little aggressive yourself, and you will be able to scout better too.
Doesn't matter what build you go, a marine SCV all-in is always hard to hold and requires lot of micro, Unless you plan on 1-basing from the start, you will definitely experience problems if you try to expo. However, it is not impossible to hold, you just need to scout the barracks and marines so your stalker can kite them all the way back to your base. Don't hesitate to pull probes when needed.
A 1 gate expo doesn't really lose to a gasless expand. You can chrono out your units extremely early and put lots of pressure because the most he will have is a bunker usually. If not, you can always throw down your own Nexus asap, skipping the core and any additional gasses if you know he's doing gasless expand.
Regarding Thor rush, it is possible to hold. You will need to post up a replay for that if you want people to help you with it because it's not a auto build order loss, your play might just need a little work here and there. Remember, if Terran pulls all his SCV, you can pull probes too. You have 2 Nexus so it's alright to pull probes vs any all-in, keep that in mind.
If you can make 1 gate FE or 3 gate FE work, it will do because these builds are definitely stable. You can try out 1 gate robo if you like, but it's way more passive so not really to my liking.
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Thanks for tips guys!
"A 1 gate expo doesn't really lose to a gasless expand."-- I was referring to when I react to a gasless FE by adding more gates, chroning stalkers, and preparing for a marine rush. That is when I fall behind. I have trouble differentiating between the two. Also, once I verify they are gasless FEing, I find it hard to put pressure on them because it is common to find 3 bunkers protecting their choke. What do you guys think about getting an early 3rd against gasless FE since their tech is usually delayed?
DO you have any links or guides to 2 gate robo or 3 gate FE builds, or can you give any advice on the best way to carry it out vaguely? Specifically, I would like to know how to play them as in--- with 3 gate expand, what is my good timing to utilize those 3 gates and put on pressure? Do you delay the nexus in favor of units or do you drop the nexus THEN use your gates to immiedatey put pressure on? For the 2 gate robo, do you expand immediately after you drop your robo or do you put pressure on with immortal & gateway units early?
Anyone do hallucination after WG? It might be faster & cheaper than dropping a quick robo if you suspect 1 base, so you can immedaitely scout them with fast pheonixes and be very reactive.
Have you truly held off a thor rush with a 1 gate FE? What is your technique?
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The only weak spot i find in 1 gate expand (either with gate before nexus or with nexus first) is a 3 rax stim push in the 9th minute of the game.It usually comes after a 2 rax pressure (6.15) which i easily hold with units from 2 chronoboosted gates.The thing is you dont have the time to tech to collosi or charge after the initial pressure and gateway units alone cant hold againg stimmed bio.Any ideas?
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DgSensei-- I regularly hold off 3raxes with my 1gate FE. Here are a few tips
1.) leave a probe at their expo so you see if they switch to an expand and when they move out. A stalker at the tower perhaps too-- monitor minimap & check their composition as it moves out, and retreat stalker. You CANNOT be surprised-- you must be prepared for the attack.
2.) After you drop nexus, cut probes to drop 2 more gates. If you are sure it's a 3rax rush, drop 3 gates instead. Chrono warp gate research 2-3 times at least. With the Huk 20 food 1 gate FE, I do 4 chronos.
3.) I don't suggest trying to tech to collosi if they are 3raxing you-- instead, chrono an immortal out to help and spend all your money on gateway units. I suggest a zealot and sentry heavy army with 3-5 stalkers & hopefully an immortal if you chrono it twice, by 9 min to hit them when they kite.
4.) When the BIO ball arrives, gauge how big it is and add an appropriate number of probes to your zealot control group. They help tremendously, and you will still be ahead if they die sine you are on 2 bases with chrono boost to help probe productino. 6-8 probes is not too much here, sometimes more.
5.) When they arrive, don't engage right away. try to hav ethem waste their stim then put up some FF and retreat behind your nexus to waste stim & get another warp in. Don't get supply blocked--- drop a few pylons before engagement. After you warp in, chrono all the gates and try to get another one. They will likely attack the nexus which has lots of shields--- This will allow you to FF them and attack with zealots and they'll be stuck in a bad positino. The best FF is 3 in a V shape (with the point of the V behind them & them stuck in the middle). Delay delay delay so their stim runs out and they need another one and you keep on warping. If you get off 2 rounds of warp you easily win but 1 round extra usually does it for me anyway though. Zealots rock--- don't forget guardian shield too. Don't chase them down; let them chase you so you can put up the proper FFs or a good Terran will kite so fast your sentries will never be able to reach them for the FF.
Remember--- for a Terran 1 base rush, you don't have time or money for forge upgrades or collosi tech. Can't get charge in time either. Once you hold it off, get an observer over there to see waht they are doing-- if they are preparing for another 1 base all in, don't tech TOO hard but you'll have money for some tech. Charge often wins the game--- collosi's are good to. If he's going into macro mode, dual forge him.
Good luck!
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"A 1 gate expo doesn't really lose to a gasless expand."-- I was referring to when I react to a gasless FE by adding more gates, chroning stalkers, and preparing for a marine rush. That is when I fall behind. I have trouble differentiating between the two. Also, once I verify they are gasless FEing, I find it hard to put pressure on them because it is common to find 3 bunkers protecting their choke. What do you guys think about getting an early 3rd against gasless FE since their tech is usually delayed?
The easiest way to differentiate between a gasless FE and a marine SCV all in is just be ridiculously aggressive with your initial units once you know there's no concussive shell. If you feel suspicious, you can always use your scouting probe to check around the map for any proxy rax. If he threw down a cc in his base, he can't have that many marines when you poke up the ramp with zealot and stalkers. On the other hand if you see a ridiculous number of marines, you can guess it's coming. Now how do you count marines? Once you see the barracks go down, you can estimate there will be about 2 marines per minute. So if you poke up the ramp and see that he has more number of marines than he should have, you can prepare then. Don't be too quick to cancel your early Nexus unless you're 100% sure it's a marine SCV all-in, it's okay to let it build because you can still get up enough units actually.
Without a replay, I don't know what stage you try to pressure a gassless expand because in my case, I usually pressure very early with whatever I have and usually there's always one bunker only. It's impossible for Terran to have 3 bunkers super early because he won't even have enough marines to fill them up. So I think your problem might be, you're too passive and pressure too late. Regarding early thirds, there's the danger you might die to a timing attack if you try to saturate all 3 bases too hard.
DO you have any links or guides to 2 gate robo or 3 gate FE builds, or can you give any advice on the best way to carry it out vaguely? Specifically, I would like to know how to play them as in--- with 3 gate expand, what is my good timing to utilize those 3 gates and put on pressure? Do you delay the nexus in favor of units or do you drop the nexus THEN use your gates to immiedatey put pressure on? For the 2 gate robo, do you expand immediately after you drop your robo or do you put pressure on with immortal & gateway units early?
You should find everything you need here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255
Have you truly held off a thor rush with a 1 gate FE? What is your technique?
Honestly it has been some time since I encountered a thor rush, it's really not popular these days.
Mass zealots all the way, only enough sentries for Guardian shield and couple of well-placed forcefields(yes you still can find ways to forcefield, unless the Terran has godlike positioning for his Thor). All immortals target down thors.
A Thor rush is easier to hold than a 111, that is for sure. It is basically like the 111 just that you can cut down on Stalkers since they are no banshees. Unless you want to be aggressive with your stalkers, don't overmake them.
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Thanks for the good advice xeno! I do have problems being too passive, mostly because I am only high gold and my APM isn't up to par yet. I will try to utilize your information.
Some more Protoss questions to whoever can help! =)
1.) Maurader Heavy Compositions - I've had trouble with mass mauraders lately-- collosi do minimal damage compared to marines, and mauraders when massed seem to be able to kite large amounts of zealots due to concussive. Stalkers, as always, are shredded by mauraders. Immortals get EMP/focus fired and destroyed too =o( I was thinking about collosi w/ void ray support--- collosi the marines to make way for the voids! Then I remembered that they always make vikings!
So, is there a special way to prepare for mauraders or do I just go at it with lots of zealots, sentries, collosi/HT and some stalkers for backup fire? I get confused how to differ my attack, but it seems to me that mass mauraders is even better than mass marines due to durability and concussive shell. You guys agree?
2.) Drop Defense - Some people recommend dark templars for drop defense. Do you simply leave them in your mineral lines? Let them chop at each unit one by one as it comes out the medivac? It seems to me Terran will just scan when they drop to kill it instantly, no? Do you warp them in as necessary or leave them there? I would think stalkers at the outskirts of your base, spread out, would be best? However, it sucks to have units out of your main army as protoss. What do you guys do for drop defense? I find building pylons outside of my base to help a lot.
3.) Mech Play - Terran Mech play can be very difficult and annoying. Hellions harass mineral lines & smoke zealots, siege tanks do crazy contains that are hard to defend against, SCV thors are annoying... then banshees too. Why do people say BIO is best? Does that mean there is a good counter to Mech, because I have a lot of trouble against Mech play. Any suggestions?
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Thanks for the help.It seems like all terran do these days is 3 rax.At least in the european server.
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The key to stopping a 1 base marine-thor allin is to scout it asap. Once you do, get as many immortals and gateway units (zealots) as possible and when you engage, try to use your immortals and focus the thors, if you have enough immortals, you should be able to kill the thors before the can repair it. The main problem is that you are unable to use forcefields so there is no real way of dealing with the marines. If you are somehow able to tech to colossus or something then you should be able to win easily.
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On November 24 2011 20:04 DgSensei wrote:
Thanks for the help.It seems like all terran do these days is 3 rax.At least in the european server.
What league are you in? Pros rarely ever 3rax because if it fails, Protoss has a huge advantage. Also, it tends to fail a lot since a 1 gate FE well played can hold 3rax, and 1 gate FE is one of the most macro oriented Protoss plays out there. If the most macro oriented play can kill a 1 base all, it is not a good build.
I am high gold and sadly, this & the marine SCV rush is one of the only builds I see too. Now since I know how to hold 3 rax well, I am happy when I see it coming since I know I'll likely win if I can hold it. With Terran you never know, though, since a well placed medivac drop can set you back like crazy. I still have a lot of trouble with marine scv all ins---hell, even marine all ins are hard enough for me without the SCVS unless I do a good build order for it.
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1 gate FEs
Huk 20 food - you don't build any units until nexus is dropped then build a stalker, chrono warp gate 4 times, drop 2-3 gates after nexus. Take 2-3 off gas at 50 gas, enough for WG, then add back to gas + add 2nd gas after nexus is built.
1 gate FE 1 gas - build nexus after a stalker and a zealot @ around 24 food (some build another stalker and probes & drop at 27-30), then drop 2-3 gates/robo. Chrono use at your own discretion.
1 gate FE 2 gas - build nexus after 2 stalkers, Chrono use at your own discretion, use extra gas for sentries at the cost of a slower nexus timing due to less mineral.
These are the three types of 1 Gate FEs I use-- perhaps with my own spin on them a bit (I forgot if this is how they officially go). Which kinds do you prefer? Although the HuK build lacks early units, it does get warpgate and gateways the quickest so if there is no super early pressure, you will have more units (I feel) with this one pretty fast-- more units for the 7:30-8:30 min stim timing push, woudl you say?
Do you guys chrono your WGs 4 times every 1 gate FE? Maybe a good idea is to chrono warpgate & units if they are 1 basing, and probes if they are 2 basing, with the exception of Huks 20 since you will have few units until WG is done so it needs 4 chronos.
I feel like the 1 gate FE w/ 1 gas is better for wide open maps where sentries are less helpful, while 1 gate w/ 2 gas is better on maps like shakuras where sentries are veyr helpful. Is this a good way to look at it? Some just say 1 gas is always the way to go since your nexus is up faster and u can get more gas from the new nexus for sentries, etc.
Interested to hear your variations on the 1 gate FE and hear if you think my assumptions are correct, or not.
Thanks!
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Hi guys, just faced a diamond random player on Xel'naga who played basically 1 base terran against me, I went 1-gate expand into gate-robo-gate-gate (I think). He first went for stim/concussive timing but didn't attack me, just took map control BUT DID NOT EXPAND, he had no CC (I had obs in his base) so I checked possible locations for a hidden, I had my expo up for some time now, I look in his base and he is getting out reactored starport for medivacs, I have no time to tech to anything other than gateway before this hits (I had previously assumed he would be attacking me earlier and my gateway army will be sufficient). He attacks me at 10-11 min with 4 medivacs, I am 90 supply to his 70, and he crushes my huge gateway army as he could kite me forever.
Any help on predicting this kind of play? It seems so strange to stay on 1 base that long for bio when he could have expanded and done a similarly strong pressure maybe a minute later.
Here is a replay of the game:
[url blocked]
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When Terran gets into my production with a huge drop and I'm in the middle of the map, what should I do? Try to go kill some of his stuff then race home to keep a nexus or two alive? It's really frustrating knowing I can't actually base race, but my army will crush his.
I just lost all my production and was banking like 2600/2000 because I had 1 working gateway after his drop...
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Alphafury--- hmm.. interesting match. I'm gonna throw out some tips in random order:
I'd say your problem is that you made too few sentries and not enough zealots. Also, your forcefields were pretty bad and that is ultimately why you lost. They hurt you more than they helped you, then you ran out of them. If you had more sentries then you would have had more, but you ran out of them so got kited. splitting the army when you have zealots isn't usually the best idea unless you can split a much larger half on your side of the battle. Otherwise, you kill a few troops then your zealots are stuck. didnt see any guardian shield either, which would have kept your zealots alive a lot longer.
Lastly, at your point in the game, you should have gone for either charge, collosi, or dual forge upgrades. You didn't really tech to any of those, while he had the medivac & upgrades tech advantage.
I find the balance of a Gaterway vs Terran matchup to kind of be as follows:
Protoss needs to delay the match to warp in more units while wasting enemies stim. If enemy is running towards you, this is your time to throw the FF's down. When enemy is running away; if you didn't get your force fields up in time, do not engage without charge. So if he stims and tries to kite you, simply run away so it wastes. If he stims and engages you without immediately kiting, throw FF's. If your army isn't big enough to win, use ff's to delay the battle and keep warping in units.
Also--- tech tech tech! Did you focus fire your immortals? If you aren't APM intensive enough to control your immortals amid the rest of the battle, opt for collosi. I rarely go for more than 1 immortal, and I generally only build them if I am waiting for my support bay to finish and need to add more troops to defend with. My immortal heavy army just never seem to win the game for me....
Lastly, you weren't constantly warping in units and had numerous critical supply blocks, but you still should have won because of 2 bases. However, these hurt your ability to "SECURE" victory. Your stalkers continued to engage mauraders to their death without zealots--- if you run out of zealots, retreat until you have more.
GL!
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On November 25 2011 10:01 mizU wrote:
When Terran gets into my production with a huge drop and I'm in the middle of the map, what should I do? Try to go kill some of his stuff then race home to keep a nexus or two alive? It's really frustrating knowing I can't actually base race, but my army will crush his.
I just lost all my production and was banking like 2600/2000 because I had 1 working gateway after his drop...
This is always frustrating for Protoss players--- generally you want to build some spotter pylons around the map, first of all, so you can see them coming and prepare. Learn to look at the minimap a lot and try to control towers. HAving 3-5 observers vs Terran mid/late game is very helpful - I put 2 in locations my opponent would likely send his drops thorugh, have 1 on his army, and another roaming the map looking for expos and being manually controlled looking for things ont the map. It definately takes some control. If you have a lot of minerals, putting a photon cannon on the edge of your base where a drop would come can help deter it, and most pros spread out 3-4 stalkers on the perimeter of their base, with blink,during times they expect drops.
Monitor his army with an observer and count his medivacs--- if you see some suddenly go missing, be preapred.
Mid/Late game the best thing to do is use templars, dark and high. Storm the medivac while it's dropping units to get them all in teh low, then warp in some zealots. Being able to warp in dark templars also works great--- good Terran players use their energy on mules a lot and wont have too many scans avaialble. If they kill 1, warp in another, and another, until they run out of scans and die. You can even micro the DT to escape when a scan comes if you are fast. Also mid/late game, you should have a ton of gateways and build lots of pylons so you can warp in an army at any location to stop a drop.
GL!
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On November 24 2011 22:48 MooSlapper wrote:
1 gate FEs
Huk 20 food - you don't build any units until nexus is dropped then build a stalker, chrono warp gate 4 times, drop 2-3 gates after nexus. Take 2-3 off gas at 50 gas, enough for WG, then add back to gas + add 2nd gas after nexus is built.
1 gate FE 1 gas - build nexus after a stalker and a zealot @ around 24 food (some build another stalker and probes & drop at 27-30), then drop 2-3 gates/robo. Chrono use at your own discretion.
1 gate FE 2 gas - build nexus after 2 stalkers, Chrono use at your own discretion, use extra gas for sentries at the cost of a slower nexus timing due to less mineral.
These are the three types of 1 Gate FEs I use-- perhaps with my own spin on them a bit (I forgot if this is how they officially go). Which kinds do you prefer? Although the HuK build lacks early units, it does get warpgate and gateways the quickest so if there is no super early pressure, you will have more units (I feel) with this one pretty fast-- more units for the 7:30-8:30 min stim timing push, woudl you say?
Do you guys chrono your WGs 4 times every 1 gate FE? Maybe a good idea is to chrono warpgate & units if they are 1 basing, and probes if they are 2 basing, with the exception of Huks 20 since you will have few units until WG is done so it needs 4 chronos.
I feel like the 1 gate FE w/ 1 gas is better for wide open maps where sentries are less helpful, while 1 gate w/ 2 gas is better on maps like shakuras where sentries are veyr helpful. Is this a good way to look at it? Some just say 1 gas is always the way to go since your nexus is up faster and u can get more gas from the new nexus for sentries, etc.
Interested to hear your variations on the 1 gate FE and hear if you think my assumptions are correct, or not.
Thanks!
I haven't used the Huk FE in a while. I think it might be a bit outdated and only use it to put on very early pressure.
Otherwise, I always chrono my gateways and maybe once on the core You straight up die to early 2rax pressure if you 1gate FE and dont crank out units continuously with chrono. 2gas gets you more sentries but also allows you to tech faster. You always need sentries whether the map is open or not.
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EPT
