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Italy12246 Posts
On November 26 2011 19:08 ThePianoDentist wrote:
in PvT i sometimes die to a kind of 2 base stim concussive shell timing push. obviously if i spot this coming i should maybe skimp on teching too hard and maybe cut a few probes as if i hold it off he's still stuck on barracks only so a collosi push will obliterate him...but any pointers on how to spot this, how many barracks before a factory should i start to worry? i dont want to say x time because im assuming that'll be greatly different whether it was one rax fe or a kind of 1 base 2/3 barracks push i often face.
also im having trouble deciding between one forge and earlier collossi versus double forge, I feel double forge just sets you up for lategame so great but my unit control seems lacklustre and i really need some kind of area of effect. Is there any early indications people use of whether or not the terran player will be very aggressive off of two bases or is looking to play heavy macro.
On two bases, 2 rax into medivac is greedy and signals (most likely) fast drops, 3rax and then medivacs is standard, 4+ generally signals some kind of stim/+1 push.
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On November 26 2011 19:20 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 19:08 ThePianoDentist wrote:
in PvT i sometimes die to a kind of 2 base stim concussive shell timing push. obviously if i spot this coming i should maybe skimp on teching too hard and maybe cut a few probes as if i hold it off he's still stuck on barracks only so a collosi push will obliterate him...but any pointers on how to spot this, how many barracks before a factory should i start to worry? i dont want to say x time because im assuming that'll be greatly different whether it was one rax fe or a kind of 1 base 2/3 barracks push i often face.
also im having trouble deciding between one forge and earlier collossi versus double forge, I feel double forge just sets you up for lategame so great but my unit control seems lacklustre and i really need some kind of area of effect. Is there any early indications people use of whether or not the terran player will be very aggressive off of two bases or is looking to play heavy macro.
On two bases, 2 rax into medivac is greedy and signals (most likely) fast drops, 3rax and then medivacs is standard, 4+ generally signals some kind of stim/+1 push.
thankyou 
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in PvZ im having a hard time in deciding what decisions to make
if Z goes for a fast third after I FFE, is it better to 6/7gate take out his third, and then take my own third....or would it be better to take my own third at the same time as the Z.....
i always feel like when I 6-7 gate and take out his third, he will simply all in with upgraded roachling and I will have no tech to stop it..(roachling usually beats my pure gateway unless I get a REALLY good engagement..)
thanks I play in plat against mostly diamond players
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On November 26 2011 19:45 morlakaix wrote:in PvZ im having a hard time in deciding what decisions to make if Z goes for a fast third after I FFE, is it better to 6/7gate take out his third, and then take my own third....or would it be better to take my own third at the same time as the Z..... i always feel like when I 6-7 gate and take out his third, he will simply all in with upgraded roachling and I will have no tech to stop it..(roachling usually beats my pure gateway unless I get a REALLY good engagement..) thanks I play in plat against mostly diamond players
thats two options, MC used to say "when zerg gets third, you get third, very simple", so you can choose between all ining or not, if I see he doesnt get gas til 4:30 (suiciding probe) I prefer to all in, if i cant scout with probes or he got gas i just expand for third
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On November 26 2011 20:41 Akhee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 19:45 morlakaix wrote:in PvZ im having a hard time in deciding what decisions to make if Z goes for a fast third after I FFE, is it better to 6/7gate take out his third, and then take my own third....or would it be better to take my own third at the same time as the Z..... i always feel like when I 6-7 gate and take out his third, he will simply all in with upgraded roachling and I will have no tech to stop it..(roachling usually beats my pure gateway unless I get a REALLY good engagement..) thanks I play in plat against mostly diamond players thats two options, MC used to say "when zerg gets third, you get third, very simple", so you can choose between all ining or not, if I see he doesnt get gas til 4:30 (suiciding probe) I prefer to all in, if i cant scout with probes or he got gas i just expand for third
Hmmm ok seems simple enough, thanks for the response !
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On November 26 2011 19:45 morlakaix wrote:in PvZ im having a hard time in deciding what decisions to make if Z goes for a fast third after I FFE, is it better to 6/7gate take out his third, and then take my own third....or would it be better to take my own third at the same time as the Z..... i always feel like when I 6-7 gate and take out his third, he will simply all in with upgraded roachling and I will have no tech to stop it..(roachling usually beats my pure gateway unless I get a REALLY good engagement..) thanks I play in plat against mostly diamond players
You do know, when using stalkers/blink stalkers vs roaches, sentries are a HEAVY component of your army.... like 6-10 sentries at times. FF chopping the roach army in pieces and putting them out of range allows stalkers to own huge amounts of roaches. There is NO PvZ game that does not use Sentries... they are vital for every PvZ matchup and you cannot win a good player without them. They should be your earliest unit, and a good P player must protect them as his #1 priority. do NOT let your sentries die, or you die. Always make sure in battle that they are not in the front lines being tanked--- they are PRECIOUS!!!!!!!!!! More precious than the fat black girl in the movie Precious, and her NAME is Precious!
Do this in combination with blink micro, and don't forget to back up a bit after force fielding to get out of range. If you run out of force fields, attempt to kite the roaches or retreat if you are losing--- you can't let them get super close to you, or all of them are in range and you'll lose. You need to have a space between you and the roaches Micro micro micro!! Also, you need robo for an observer so if he sticks to roaches rally 2-3 immortals in ur army (I don't usually get more because of a tech switch possibility--- hydras pwn immortals + zergling/mutalisk. After 2 immortals, drop robo bay imo to prepare for hydras & to just got a superior unit than the immortal in general, imo).
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On November 26 2011 21:56 morlakaix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 20:41 Akhee wrote:On November 26 2011 19:45 morlakaix wrote:in PvZ im having a hard time in deciding what decisions to make if Z goes for a fast third after I FFE, is it better to 6/7gate take out his third, and then take my own third....or would it be better to take my own third at the same time as the Z..... i always feel like when I 6-7 gate and take out his third, he will simply all in with upgraded roachling and I will have no tech to stop it..(roachling usually beats my pure gateway unless I get a REALLY good engagement..) thanks I play in plat against mostly diamond players thats two options, MC used to say "when zerg gets third, you get third, very simple", so you can choose between all ining or not, if I see he doesnt get gas til 4:30 (suiciding probe) I prefer to all in, if i cant scout with probes or he got gas i just expand for third Hmmm ok seems simple enough, thanks for the response !
Ehhh--- kind of true, but not so much with the FFE. Zerg can safely grab a third after your FFE a lot faster than you and if you go straight for a third yourself, Zerg can do some crazy timing pushes on you. I tend to 7 gate blink stalker all in w/ +2 weapons and a bunch of sentries; going straight for the third. It usually comes in time for a good old fashion zerg beating.
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How can I punish a zerg for taking a fast third?
Should I deny the third by throwing down a forge and an extra gate then attack the third with some stalkers, zealots and sentries for a +1 timing?
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Thanks I haven't seen that one posted before!
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I've been having trouble so far. I got this game only a month ago, and I decided to play Protoss. I've tried 4 gates, cannon rushes, even Stargate rushes, but nothing has worked for me. i am currently in Bronze league, and I'm having trouble getting ANY wins at all. I need help. What's a good strategy that's easy to use with a low APM (average around 35)? Thanks!
~Grunt
a.k.a. Cable
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PvT
I know T isn't really supposed to go siege tank vs Toss, but occasionally they do go this route. Occasionally, it can be relatively successful (although not as successful as it is TvT or TvZ, of course). Most say to make immortal vs tanks but I dont know if this is such a great idea considering for them to be in range, they are in a very vulnerable positoin from marines.
For that reason, I've had a lot better luck with thermal lance collosi. Would you guys say they are the best route to go for tanks? I imagine immortals could be good in combo with a speedprism though.
Is the reason collosi arent used as much as immortals because most tanks are used in 1/1/1 plays where collosi arent on the map yet/
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Canada13407 Posts
On November 27 2011 13:28 MooSlapper wrote:
PvT
I know T isn't really supposed to go siege tank vs Toss, but occasionally they do go this route. Occasionally, it can be relatively successful (although not as successful as it is TvT or TvZ, of course). Most say to make immortal vs tanks but I dont know if this is such a great idea considering for them to be in range, they are in a very vulnerable positoin from marines.
For that reason, I've had a lot better luck with thermal lance collosi. Would you guys say they are the best route to go for tanks? I imagine immortals could be good in combo with a speedprism though.
Is the reason collosi arent used as much as immortals because most tanks are used in 1/1/1 plays where collosi arent on the map yet/
If they commit to mech and I mean mech with little bio, expand a lot and get a small number of immortals to hold earlier pushes and transition into collossus. Immortals and collossus with zealot and some stalker support will do well with good ups.
Against tank play always get charge since closing the distance lets the splash from the tanks hurt the marines as well. Collossus do well vs tanks once they have range as well so its not wrong to like ranged collossi vs tanks . Having some immortals will always be beneficial though since if the tanks start to shoot them they will soak up a lot of damage and deal quite a lot as well.
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ahhh speaking of mech play--- I did have a lot of problems fromt his guy who went hellion siege tank with a few marines. I made immortals, and helions did surpsingly well against them since! Also, stalkers do surprisingly bad against hellions unless they have blink and you have a lot of them. Hellions are so damn mobile and good vs toss (can kite and destroy zealors, massacre probes) I am not really sure how to handle them--- not to mentino hellion drop harass. How to handle hellion harass & hellion play? How, NOT, to handle it?
Lastly, has anyone ever considered mid-late game building a starport to shut down medivac harasas? You can leave them in all the vulnerable spots and chase medivacs down and kill them before they get in ur base-- ya?
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On November 27 2011 14:11 MooSlapper wrote:
Lastly, has anyone ever considered mid-late game building a starport to shut down medivac harasas? You can leave them in all the vulnerable spots and chase medivacs down and kill them before they get in ur base-- ya?
Maybe, toss went through a phase where they would get phoenix with colossi to tank some damage/help vs vikings, so that wouldn't be there only use.
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I played a PvZ on Tal'darim where my opponent fast expanded when I FFE'd and I very effectively killed his expo with a cannon between 2 pylons. After this I knew I was very ahead and that he would likely try to all-in me so I played safe with 3 cannons and tried to tech up to 6-7 gate blink and just kill my opponent. However... he massed spine-crawlers and teched to mutalisks. The spine-crawlers deterring my All-in and the mutalisks forcing me in my base and then when I go to kill him knowing I have the army to do it, he forces a base trade and I lose.
Here is the game:
[url blocked]
How do I punish a zerg when I know i'm very ahead if they just tech to mass mutalisks? can they potentially remove all of my advantage by keeping me into my base while they expand and max out their economy?
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Hey Guys,
For Protoss, do you tend to 12 gate or 13 gate? With 13 gate you don't have to stop probe production so I tend to think it's better, but most builds call for 12 gate. Does having that slightly faster gate really matter more than smooth probe productino early on? Like-- PvT or PVZ 1 gate FE, 12 or 13?
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Canada13407 Posts
On November 27 2011 22:36 MooSlapper wrote:
Hey Guys,
For Protoss, do you tend to 12 gate or 13 gate? With 13 gate you don't have to stop probe production so I tend to think it's better, but most builds call for 12 gate. Does having that slightly faster gate really matter more than smooth probe productino early on? Like-- PvT or PVZ 1 gate FE, 12 or 13?
In PvP 12 gate is the standard because of the timing on the cyber core and the potential of 4 gates. You need to be able to defend a 4 gate by having a sentry out and also having warpgate research done. 13 gate pushes the core and the WG timing off by just enough that a super fast 4 gate will be much harder to hold than going 12 gate.
In PvT it is generally accepted that 13 gate is standard and in PvZ it depends on what you scout.
In PvZ I believe the consensus is no gas early hatch before pool a 13 gate is fine, gas pool hatch openings from Z though a 12 gate is a bit safer using Chronoboost on the 13/14 probes to make up for the small cut in probes. It lets you get stalkers and zealots earlier so you can pressure the Z for a smidge longer before speed is done and allows for earlier sentry production and times out a little better with taking the second gas earlier than a 13 gate. The extra time the 12 gate gives you is enough to clear out the closest watch tower of small zergling numbers before speed becomes an issue on most ladder maps, just to be clear on my smidge more time comment.
If I'm wrong as always someone let me know
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What are good ways on harassing the zerg after a FFE, i always feel as if i am miles behind because all my harass can be stop so easily making me more behind
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EPT
