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[G] PvP 1 Gate Robo FE

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-21 18:37:12
October 20 2011 17:49 GMT
#1
Hello TL, I am a high(ish) Masters Protoss on the EU server and PvP for a while was seen as the first to expand loses match up, or the very late expands, which I simply never enjoyed, with changes to the Immortal and warp ins, I have been experimenting with a build with a fast expand which is defended with Stalkers, Immortals and Sentries.
Generally in PvP we will see one player get a hidden expand with Blink Stalkers, or turtle Colossi into expanding at a late stage/timing push or cheese.
Not expanding, and hoping they don't spot a hidden expansion until it's too late makes the match up a huge coin flip and very dull, but my build is enjoyable and allows you to expand (in my experience so far)

As far as I am aware this build has not been posted before (did search), sorry if it has.

This build does have a point of cutting Probes however this is because you're getting an expand up you can easily catch up and get ahead.

Build Order;
+ Show Spoiler +
9 Pylon
Chronoboost 11th Probe
12 Gate -> scout
Chronoboost 13th Probe
14 Gas
Queue up 3 more Probes (17)
17 Cybernetics core
17 Pylon
18 Gas
18 Gas steal (if possible)
22 Stalker Chronoboosted
(cut probes)
22 Pylon
24 Stalker Chronoboosted
24 Robotics Facility (once scouting Probe is gone)
26 Stalker Chronoboosted.
Build two more Probes

Will stop using supply as indicators here as it becomes too variable

Push out with your 3 Stalkers, this is to prevent/delay any possible 4 gate, during this time you should be building 2 Sentries (Chronoboost it out) and an Observer, cutting Probes again get your expansion down, (if they are 4gating, don't expand, put down 2 more Gates and defend like normal with Sentries and Immortals) Warp gate should be finished once the 2nd Sentry is done, warp in another Sentry and begin your first Immortal asap, build 2 more Gates asap and continue Sentry production until you have 5 and continue Immortal Production until you have 3-5 depending on your opponents build.
Build your tech accordingly to what your opponent is doing, the match up is still a coin flip build order fight, you get a very early Observer so you can tech in the right direction.
(Continued Immortal production with Blink versus Blink openings, Stargate versus Robotics tech, Gateways versus Stargate)


Key notes about the build;
+ Show Spoiler +
The 3 Stalker pressure must be executed very effectively, you must either return with all 3 Stalkers unharmed, or do damage to their starting units/forcing out Sentries to delay their tech, if you lose your 3 Stalkers by overextending at their ramp and getting Forcefielded in, you will be very vulnerable to any Stargate tech, you money is very limited while building up the initial defence units (Sentries and Immortals) that it is very hard to (without cutting Probes) to replenish these Stalkers.

This build is not secure against a 4gate, if your opponent is 4gating you cannot expand until it is held off, as you build Sentries and Immortals early on, it is very easy to hold.

This build does involve cutting Probes, points to cut Probes have been said however as the game is so endlessly variable you will find sometimes you can keep building and sometimes not so it comes with practice of the build to know when it is best to cut Probes, remember you're expanding much earlier than your opponent normally will so cutting Probes will not put you behind for very long.

Good forcefields is essential to pull this off.

A gas steal is very useful however not totally needed, the gas steal prevents fast Colossi with range timings, DTs (as you only have one Observer) and delays other tech (especially with the 3 Stalker pressure, if you do it well enough to also force them to build Sentries you can delay their tech even further)


Build Strengths;
+ Show Spoiler +
The biggest factor of this build is how it is basically inducing them to attack you, in PvP when you scout a finished expansion and you have not even started your own, the general mindset of most players even in high Masters (cannot say for higher) is to attack instantly, this works in favour of this build due to the high Sentry and Immortal count, with good Forcefields you tear apart any Gateway army.

The build transitions nicely into Colossi tech due to possible 4 gas and already Robotics tech.
The build transitions nicely into air tech due to already having ground dominance with Immortals, making it much harder for Stalkers to be an effective counter to your air play from the opponent.
The build transitions nicely into Chargelot Archon tech due to high Sentry counts allowing you to prevent them kiteing Zealots, or squeezing them all together for an Archon hit.

If a 4gate is coming you can very easily hold it before expanding due to Sentries and Immortals.

When pulled off you're an expand ahead of your opponent.

Due to a fast Observer you have good scouting from the start and can prepare very early on against any potential push.

Due to the Immortal buff, Colossi pushes without range can be held fairly well.

If you manage to do the gas steal, this is still enough to prompt a lot of players to fall back on the 4gate, which in current game standings is a free win for you.


Build Weaknesses;
+ Show Spoiler +
Due to being very immobile because of Immortals and Sentries, this leaves you very vulnerable to Phoenix play done correctly (by correctly I mean the harass and kill the Sentries ((however this could be because Phoenix's in PvP being the rarest build I face, I may just not of had the experience to react accordingly and the build may be fine against it))

Colossi with range timing pushes can be hard to hold, however more testing may be required to say this 100%

A very fast gas steal from your opponent can slow this build down due to lack of Sentries, plus it delays the 3 Stalker pressure which is essential.

Due to immobility Warp Prisms with speed (the double Immortal drop or just Zealots) can cause a lot of damage if you do not catch it before it does damage.

This build relies on your opponent directly engaging, or just expanding themselves, if they go for harassment in the form of Warp Prisms or Phoenix's without engaging your army, they will be able to hit a timing where your Sentries are either killed by Phoenix's or your Forcefields will not be in a position to help you (such as 4 gate Warp Prism special tactics style.)


Replays;
+ Show Spoiler +
Versus 4gate;
As with any opening in PvP they must be able to defend 4gates, here are 2 replays of how you would react to a 4gate.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13860
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13861

Versus Blink Stalker opening;
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13862

Versus Blink Stalker all in;
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14532

Versus 4 Gate Robo Immortal pushes;
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13865

Versus Expand into Colossi;
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13866

Versus Stargate Phoenix;
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13867

Versus Colossi with range timing;
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13875


Overall I see this build to have a lot of potential and could (in my dreams) become a large part of PvP play.
This build does require crisp execution with little room for error (such as the match up of PvP itself)
Feedback is welcome and encouraged, would love to hear from higher level players and players of all levels on their opinions on this build, I am not claiming ownership just yet as I am not 100% if this is a brand new build yet or that I just managed to come up with the same build someone else had as well.

For those who use this build and have success, I hope you enjoyed using the build and I hope it brings you many PvP wins, and makes the match up enjoyable from now on.

Any Grandmaster Protoss players who comment would be highly appreciated as I am not at that level to be able to say this works at the very top however I have increased my win rate in PvP from just over 50% to at least 70-80% with this build in my place of high(ish) Masters

Thank you for reading.
-Kracen
Kray-sen
GomJabbar
Profile Joined February 2011
United States161 Posts
October 20 2011 17:57 GMT
#2
There's lots of variations of 1-gate robo expand in PvP lately and I think in general it's a solid strategy. I do one with 1 gas so I don't have to make so many sentries, personally. I know White-Ra and Sase do FEs with fast robos as well.

Against Colossus all-ins, I've found that warp prisms with immortals for flanks is very effective. The 6 range buff for immortals helps hold this all-in a lot.

I'm not sure yet if this build is viable at all against a phoenix all-in. Those seem to be really strong but it's still very new and I haven't experienced it much.
HellRush
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada68 Posts
October 20 2011 18:55 GMT
#3
I have been using the 3 gate stargate build alot recently in my PvP and in my experience, it'S almost auto win if the guy went for a robo because if you go immortal you will most likely have alot of zealot/centries and phx do insane amount of DPS versus them. And on top of that with their remaining energy they can lift the immortal making them way less effective and very suceptible to being snipe. Also alows zealot to get a good souround on them once they get down. And that is against people who are going for something like 3 gate robo builds. If you expand on top of that, i dont think holding that push would be possible at all ...

Of course you could maybe hold a harass of phx with good micro, but if your oponent goes for a timing with that. You will most likely straight up lose... I saddly dont have any replay to back off want i mean ( deleted all of them recently) but i think you should be carefull with that build since i have seen it auto lose to a phx composition.
More gg more skils ... WhiteRa
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
October 20 2011 18:58 GMT
#4
How does this build do against a blink stalker all in? It seems like you wouldn't have enough defense to hold it off.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 19:04:28
October 20 2011 19:01 GMT
#5
Yeah I know what you mean HellRush, I have had the experience of insta loses versus Phoenix plays, however Stargate play is very rare PvP (in my experience) simply because of no detection making DT rushes an instant lose for anything other than Robotics.
A lot of Stargate wins are usually blind luck as it is usually done fairly blind and hoping that they are not actually going for a DT rush, having no detection makes them very vulnerable.
My usual reaction to seeing Stargate is a hidden Dark Shrine.

How does this build do against a blink stalker all in? It seems like you wouldn't have enough defense to hold it off.

4 Immortals 1 shot Stalkers, (if you get fast +1 Weapons, Immortals 3 shot Stalkers ((just a random note for people who don't realise this), if they go for Blink Stalker all ins, you just tear through them with Stalkers and Immortals, you have Guardian shield and you only build about 5 Sentries which is actually very easy to get very fast, and you can then begin Stalker production to absorb some shots while your Immortals just rip through them.
Also I think I posted a replay of Blink Stalkers.
Kray-sen
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
October 20 2011 19:51 GMT
#6
I also do a 1-gas build that similar to this, and it's close to auto-loss against phoenix openings. Your opening is probably better against phoenixes because you get more stalkers, but really, anything with immortals is going to be bad against phoenixes. A 150/100 unit can harass, can quickly kill sentries, and after that, gets to completely neutralize a 250/100 unit. Phoenix builds just crap all over immortal builds.

On maps without a choke at the natural, I suspect you'd die to well-timed gateway pressure. If you can't stop zealots from hitting your units, you're going to lose.
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
October 20 2011 19:59 GMT
#7
On maps without a choke at the natural, I suspect you'd die to well-timed gateway pressure. If you can't stop zealots from hitting your units, you're going to lose.

It certainly makes it harder, a map like Typhon peaks, where the choke is further away, you can move forward to engage them there to solve this issue, and right now that is only the map I can think of where the choke becomes an issue, maybe Tal'Darim however that is just a 4gate map anyway.
Kray-sen
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
October 20 2011 21:33 GMT
#8
So if I go quick charge 3 gate will you hold? Sure you can forcefield but sentry/immortal doesn't exactly have the highesr dps against zealots
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
October 20 2011 21:58 GMT
#9
Your Zealots wouldn't even get to hit my units.
Kray-sen
Warzilla
Profile Joined December 2010
Czech Republic311 Posts
October 21 2011 14:30 GMT
#10
I love this build.. I started playing around with this since yesterday and once you get to feel when to cut probes and scout properly it is pretty solid.. When im up against phoenixes my only chance is cannon up and pull guys out of 1 assimilator to get more stalkies.. Will get my protoss friend and play some more games because thats the only weakness of this build i see right now
"AFTER LOST GAME - I usually run around in circles yelling "WHY OH GOD WHY" in my room, pointing towards the sky. After 5 to 10min ,i get tired and go back to playing"
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
October 21 2011 17:19 GMT
#11
That's the good thing though YosHGo, this builds biggest weakness is a build (Phoenix's) which (at least at my league) is very rare to find due to it having so many vulnerabilities, and the Phoenix opening being weak against current standard openings which are Blink Robo.
This build is also very strong against Blink Robo due to the high Immortal count so with current meta game, this build is just so solid right now.
Kray-sen
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
October 21 2011 20:37 GMT
#12
Added a replay for versus Blink Stalker all ins in case anyone was unsure how it faired against the all in version of Blink Stalkers.
Kray-sen
Purupururin
Profile Joined October 2011
United States14 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 20:56:54
October 21 2011 20:55 GMT
#13
Yeah, it seems like robo-immortal expands have become pretty common in pvp atm since fast robo along with the 4 warpgate nerfs makes it almost an auto win vs a standard 4gate. I've been doing a 2 gate robo immortal push and expand at 8 min and I actually played against someone who did the exact same thing. I think robo expands are very good although phoenixes can cause trouble. Also, I like the gas steal in pvp. Especially with this build since phoenixes a minute later will make a huge difference.
Indrium
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2236 Posts
October 21 2011 21:05 GMT
#14
This looks really really good. I'm going to do this when I ladder later and report back. :D
TheHansBecker
Profile Joined February 2011
United States117 Posts
October 22 2011 05:56 GMT
#15
--- Nuked ---
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
October 24 2011 18:21 GMT
#16
If anyone knows how to do this build against Stargate Phoenix play please do say and if possible post a replay so I can add it to the main post as I just do not know how even after many attempts.
Kray-sen
Zergalicious
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States29 Posts
October 24 2011 18:56 GMT
#17
Definitely going to try this build after class. :D
Find me in-game @ TheBlueBox.520!
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
October 29 2011 22:48 GMT
#18
I would not recommend this build on Meta due to the natural choke being so large, splitting any aggression with Forcefields would be near impossible.
Kray-sen
LtLolburger
Profile Joined August 2010
New Zealand365 Posts
October 30 2011 01:10 GMT
#19
If you go twilight after robo with this build, I feel you could transition easily enough to archons with 2 bases of gas, which would deal with any phoenix play and trade alright against robo.

Also when you scout some phoenix play, you can always DT into free win (try hide the shrine if possible) if they don't make a robo or forge.
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane. -Philip K. Dick
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
October 30 2011 22:55 GMT
#20
I take it back, this works nicely on Meta, just requires perfect forcefields.
Kray-sen
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