EPTOn November 18 2011 08:05 crazydude76 wrote:
What is the best twilight robo opening?
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What is the best twilight robo opening?
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Too ambiguous question
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 111
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monk
United States8477 Posts
Too ambiguous question | ||
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SCbiff
110 Posts
On November 15 2011 20:37 NrGmonk wrote: Have lots of cannons and 1-2 templar at each base. How many is "lots," and how do you recommend positioning them? | ||
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On November 18 2011 09:07 SCbiff wrote: How many is "lots," and how do you recommend positioning them? Obviously it depends on the stage of the game, but in the semi late game when zerg has 24+ mutas, I'd for around 6+ cannons per base depending on the positioning of the base. Position them tightly packed so that they cover each other and around your nexus facing the direction mutas would likely come from. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
Sorry, I know this is a general question, but I know I find myself being more active and at least trying to set the pace against Zerg, while against Terran I defend more before looking for a push with a Colossus based army (or Chargelot/Sentry/Immo) and end the game. I was wondering if this is more unique to me, or just a general characteristic of PvT. Apart from poking with my early units, it feels difficult for me to pressure Terran once the game begins to develop. | ||
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Necrophantasia
Japan299 Posts
How do I hold a 2/3rax + scv allin if I have opened with a 1 gate fe on maps that cannot be easily ff'ed like taldarim nezarim metapolis etc? I get smashed by this simple push every time. Also, when should I drop the forges and twilight council for charge and fast upgrades? If I do it at the same time I find I cut into my army too much and die. | ||
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BADSMCGEE
United States94 Posts
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[Tribes]
Canada61 Posts
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
i had initially hoped to one gate fe but upon seeing a reactor on his barracks with quite a few marines i expected early pressure so played it safe, should i have 1 gate fe'd anyway here? he just seemed to have so much stuff and my money was kept low until the engagement (although i had too much gas). any tips on the best way to deal with this. or was it just a poor engagement? letting him siege up beforehand? and are the same ways to cope with this the same techniques used to hold off 1-1-1, I assume the only difference is 1-1-1 hits sooner with less marines. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15397 | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 18 2011 09:20 aZealot wrote: Just a general questions regarding Protoss play-style in PvT. Is it the norm that Protoss has to play a lot more passive and reactionary (although this is not necessarily the same thing) against Terran? It feels like I can be a lot more aggressive against Zerg, but against Terran (unless I am going for an all-in) it feels like I have to play more 'safe'. Sorry, I know this is a general question, but I know I find myself being more active and at least trying to set the pace against Zerg, while against Terran I defend more before looking for a push with a Colossus based army (or Chargelot/Sentry/Immo) and end the game. I was wondering if this is more unique to me, or just a general characteristic of PvT. Apart from poking with my early units, it feels difficult for me to pressure Terran once the game begins to develop. From my experience this depends on your build. If you choose to go for a 6gate you get to be the aggressor, however if you macro the terran can be aggressive while maintaining a strong economy. So if you want to macro and be aggressive you would have to use other strategies than the normal double forge turtling + colossus and/or HT/archons. Have a look at this http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=280741 if you are interested in more offensive strategies that can macro more easily than a straight up attack (ie 2base timings or all-ins). What you describe is pretty standard for the current protoss strategies in PvT, but I don't think that it has to be like that unless you want to. On November 18 2011 09:38 Necrophantasia wrote: Hi I got a bunch of questions. How do I hold a 2/3rax + scv allin if I have opened with a 1 gate fe on maps that cannot be easily ff'ed like taldarim nezarim metapolis etc? I get smashed by this simple push every time. Also, when should I drop the forges and twilight council for charge and fast upgrades? If I do it at the same time I find I cut into my army too much and die. To begin with, it is easier if you see the attack coming. Normally you get 3 gates against a 2rax and 4 gates against a 3rax. You do this right after the expansion, cut probes and stay below 34 supply. I guess you got this part down. Now for maps with more open naturals, you just need more stalker zealot at first , so while the zealots tank your stalkers can deal damage. You could also go for more sentries if you want to forcefield behind him. don't cut his army in half though as it is kind of pointless this early in the game. Your zealots will do more than fine if the marines and marauders are stuck. Other than that... There's not really a difference between the maps. It's just easier to defend on say shakuras, as you can forcefield for an easy win. On other maps you need to 1. scout 2. prepare and 3. micro good. Don't forget to pull probes if necessary against the 3rax, you should still be ahead economically. You start teching after you got 3 gates down normally. I usually get a robo and 2 forges but you could get a forge and a twilight instead if you want to. You should also be delaying the twilight council until the +1 upgrade(s) are at about 50% completion. Unless you are going for some kind of blink/charge build of course. On November 18 2011 09:58 [Tribes] wrote: Is there anyway to get a fast third without dying to Roach + Zergling attacks? I feel like if they scout my nexus at any point during construction Its a guaranteed loss. it doesn't even have to be a pre-planned attack, they just see it and murrrderrr me. I'd appreciate a "lol don't go fast third" answer, thanks! How early are we talking? Of course it's dangerous if you take it too fast. The most standard build aiming at a fast third after forge FE that I know of is the 5gate robo, potentially with a twilight council. But you have to scout what the zerg is doing. If he is not taking a third and going for some kind of 2base play you should delay the expansion. Your units are usually more cost efficient and there is no need to take that kind of risk. So yeah, expand when or after the zerg does and scout what he's up to. On November 18 2011 10:02 ThePianoDentist wrote: hi, I provided a replay if needed. I came across a PvT where the terran did a kind of 3-1-1. If in the replay i look very bad and indecisive i'd never come across this before so wasn't sure what i should be doing/ cutting probes? making mainly zealots? etc. i had initially hoped to one gate fe but upon seeing a reactor on his barracks with quite a few marines i expected early pressure so played it safe, should i have 1 gate fe'd anyway here? he just seemed to have so much stuff and my money was kept low until the engagement (although i had too much gas). any tips on the best way to deal with this. or was it just a poor engagement? letting him siege up beforehand? and are the same ways to cope with this the same techniques used to hold off 1-1-1, I assume the only difference is 1-1-1 hits sooner with less marines. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15397 There is just no way that the terran can support all those facilities. He had to cut units from different buildings several times so already there, his timing will be delayed. As you can see he want for a lot of marines so you need more zealot stalker to kill them. You had like 4 immortal I think but he only had 2-3 tanks. You can't produce enough gateway units on 3 gateways so get 4 or 5 total. Also you should keep a probe or something right under his ramp so you can see the second he moves out. This might help you prepare a little. Then of course dont let him siege to easily. You want to delay him if possible. He didn't have many banshees so faking and engagement should be really great for you (forcing stim and tanks sieging means wasted time and HP for the terran). If he has banshees he can pop into your main, that's the danger of that. Another thing you need to work on is your forcefields, you had the chance to catch almost all of his marines but you killed maybe 5. More zealots :F Gl hf guys. | ||
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Necrophantasia
Japan299 Posts
I guess I just need to cut probes and get more guys | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 18 2011 10:20 Necrophantasia wrote: Thank you for the answer. I'll try and put the advice to use tonight. I guess I just need to cut probes and get more guys No problem  2 nexus means you can pump probes at double the speed, dont worry about not having enough or saccing a few. | ||
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Necrophantasia
Japan299 Posts
If I cut probes and he doesn't come, I'll be at a disadvantage. I guess I need to read the situation better to decide when I can skip 1 round of warp in for the robo and 2 forge. | ||
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Beltiosi
United States8 Posts
On November 18 2011 10:10 Latedi wrote: don't cut his army in half though as it is kind of pointless this early in the game. Your zealots will do more than fine if the marines and marauders are stuck. Cutting opponents army in half isn't pointless. Especially if he's doing a 2/3 rax all in with scvs, as he IS talking about big aggression, and you can just FF and range the scvs for a little bit. Also buys more time for another warp in. | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
On November 18 2011 09:38 Necrophantasia wrote: Hi I got a bunch of questions. How do I hold a 2/3rax + scv allin if I have opened with a 1 gate fe on maps that cannot be easily ff'ed like taldarim nezarim metapolis etc? I get smashed by this simple push every time. Also, when should I drop the forges and twilight council for charge and fast upgrades? If I do it at the same time I find I cut into my army too much and die. You shouldn't be doing a fe without scouting. If he goes fe, you go fe. If he doesn't, go for 2/3 gate expo and with some mcro you can hold any # of marines. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
And sorry chaps, I sometimes spam stream of consciousness posts in here when I probably shouldn't. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 18 2011 10:42 Necrophantasia wrote: Just one more question, how do I scout if it's 2/3 rax? My probe won't last that long and poking the front will only let me see if he has MM. I won't know if he will pull scvs. If I cut probes and he doesn't come, I'll be at a disadvantage. I guess I need to read the situation better to decide when I can skip 1 round of warp in for the robo and 2 forge. First, both these builds uses one gas so scouting that you should know it is a posibility. Then you want to send your first zealot and stalker to scout his ramp, if you see a bunch of marines that could be 2rax, or a 1-1-1 with a late bunker. Sorry but you have to guess here, there is just no way to know except the bunker or actually seeing other buildings. If you see a marauder and a few marines you don't have to be scared of a 2rax but he might be going either concussive shell rush and expand or 3rax. Those are very opposite builds and there are others that opens with marauders as well. At this point it's a good idea to get your 3-4 gates up because you don't know, leave a probe under his ramp or something as well to see when he moves out, and with what amount of units. On November 18 2011 13:06 Beltiosi wrote: Cutting opponents army in half isn't pointless. Especially if he's doing a 2/3 rax all in with scvs, as he IS talking about big aggression, and you can just FF and range the scvs for a little bit. Also buys more time for another warp in. Ooh I missed to read the part about SCVs. Well cutting the army in half or cutting only the SCVs has it uses but you need enough stalkers to kill them off, because it's useless if you move the zealots forward to where the MM on the other side can shoot them. It depends so much on the situation. And yeah, more warp ins are always good if you can delay for that. Terran should only be able to stim 1-2 times before they get so low health stalkers can kill them without zealots. On November 18 2011 14:06 aZealot wrote: Thanks Latedi, you are a gentleman and a scholar. That is what I thought - but I might try to change up my play style a little. And sorry chaps, I sometimes spam stream of consciousness posts in here when I probably shouldn't. No problem I don't think spamming like that is bad, this thread was made to help people with anything protoss related. | ||
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Yokoblue
Canada594 Posts
On November 18 2011 10:42 Necrophantasia wrote: Just one more question, how do I scout if it's 2/3 rax? My probe won't last that long and poking the front will only let me see if he has MM. I won't know if he will pull scvs. If I cut probes and he doesn't come, I'll be at a disadvantage. I guess I need to read the situation better to decide when I can skip 1 round of warp in for the robo and 2 forge. Poke up at the ramp with initial stalker-zealot, after that you should be below his ramp for a little while, like that you'll know if he get out to push/expend. Usually you dont have to skip a warp-in, just do units and probes and put building at the time you get the cash for it. If you want to skip, just be sure that you have a composition that can resist to most timing push at that time. | ||
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terranmoccasin
United States74 Posts
If the answer is that HT/Collosus gateway is just a better composition, since HTs are just so good... is Phoenix/Collosus with gateway still viable, despite HT/Collosus being more favorable? | ||
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ForTheDr3am
842 Posts
On November 19 2011 05:19 terranmoccasin wrote: In PvT a few months ago, many players in the GSL were complementing their Gateway/Collosus army with 2 Stargate Phoenix once on 3 bases and when macro is really kicking in. Is there a reason that this transition is rarely ever used anymore? If the answer is that HT/Collosus gateway is just a better composition, since HTs are just so good... is Phoenix/Collosus with gateway still viable, despite HT/Collosus being more favorable? Hard to say since there are no pro games to judge from, but I'd say no. Phoenixes don't synergize at all with double forge upgrades and are such a resource-sink. If it is about killing vikings, just getting one storm off on them while focusing with your stalkers will do the job as well. Phoenixes don't really provide enough meat for your army, and are also very vulnerable to EMPs (HTs can at least still merge). | ||
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ZooZ
Canada21 Posts
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