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[D] PvT 6 Gate - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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ShAdOw_LaNcE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States5 Posts
June 10 2011 04:49 GMT
#21
Looks good. Another opening I've been playing around with is DTs. Seems to work very well if they're well split up as it either forces THREE scans out of terran, or a raven which will pretty much put you at an even investment, and the raven will generally not get out in time anyways. If turrets go up instead, an expo is easy as terran can't push out. Thoughts?
YourGoodFriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2197 Posts
June 10 2011 16:40 GMT
#22
dt's opening is nice for containing but it is also weak against really early pressure so you have to be careful. its also not so good against 1 rax fe'ing terrans as they will have 2 oribital and dts take a while to get to. that being said doing it as a way to secure a 3rd or take map control is pretty good or just harass mid game with warp prism dts.
anonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
OnFire
Profile Joined July 2010
324 Posts
June 10 2011 16:53 GMT
#23
TvP is already turning into a more defensive Siege Tank based play. This will likely just speed up the process of that, soon everyone will be doing a more mech style based play.
HYDRA - EFFORT - LETA
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 17:27:05
June 10 2011 17:20 GMT
#24
On June 11 2011 01:53 grudgeStar wrote:
TvP is already turning into a more defensive Siege Tank based play. This will likely just speed up the process of that, soon everyone will be doing a more mech style based play.


EDIT: A bit off topic

Its nice to see toss expanding outside the Collosi as they discover the power of Gateways. Personally i feel this and Plexas shock and Awe tactics would be a benefit for all toss to look through.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
June 10 2011 17:23 GMT
#25
I prefer going for a +1 armor w/ charge when i 6 gate and i make almost nothing but zealots and sentries.... I add the stalkers right when im ready to attack
Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
Perplex
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1693 Posts
June 10 2011 18:47 GMT
#26
On June 11 2011 02:23 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
I prefer going for a +1 armor w/ charge when i 6 gate and i make almost nothing but zealots and sentries.... I add the stalkers right when im ready to attack


Could you share your build order?

Or anyone else? I've yet to find a concrete build order for a 6 gate
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24238059
ForTheDr3am
Profile Joined November 2010
842 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 19:55:00
June 10 2011 19:54 GMT
#27
If you want to be cute you can research Hallucination and use it to do warpin 2-3 Zealots on the highground. Terran usually has to pull back at least a small chunk of his army to deal with them, and you can FF the ramp when attacking, giving you additional army advantage (as long as no Medivacs are out). Alternatively you can just warpin while you bus the front for a nice 2-pronged attack. If you already got a Robo though, just using a warpprism or Observer + Pylon works as well.
SethDrone
Profile Joined September 2010
United States51 Posts
June 10 2011 21:15 GMT
#28
Whats the plan against an early pressure Terran with 3rax +ghosts?

I've been losing my expo against this push (comes right before its really up and running but has finished warping in), both armies get traded so that pretty much kills the plan of hitting with a strong 6 gate off 2 bases.

It would seem like you need to check if he expo'd or not, but either way your reacting after his choice and will probably be behind. If you re-expo you lose it to his follow up push if he doesn't expo...just wondering what the best plan is after your intial trade if the natural falls.
YourGoodFriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2197 Posts
June 10 2011 22:38 GMT
#29
thats why the gas steal is important plus pressure delays ghosts and allows you more time to get units out and hold the ghost push better. But yeah that push is strong i have lost to it a couple of times and you just have to engage him early also and split army
anonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
loklok
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany161 Posts
June 10 2011 22:51 GMT
#30
On June 10 2011 12:18 YourGoodFriend wrote:
Yeah I have basically been trying this out to add to my group of builds and wanted input. I prefer to do it not as a all in but as a way to punish fast expanding terran and I am taking the advice and throwing in a twilight council and and robo (robo as needed) grabbing a fast third while pressuring/killing them then going heavy ht's into mass expo and from there robo coli since i can support multiple robo's and they wont have time to get high viking counts. But so far it tends to just kill them, granted i am only in diamond.

@loklok is that 1 gate FE build on TL somewhere? is it similar to what huk does? thanks for the help and ideas guys


No huk is doing this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223726

W2
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1177 Posts
June 10 2011 23:20 GMT
#31
On June 11 2011 06:15 SethDrone wrote:
Whats the plan against an early pressure Terran with 3rax +ghosts?

I've been losing my expo against this push (comes right before its really up and running but has finished warping in), both armies get traded so that pretty much kills the plan of hitting with a strong 6 gate off 2 bases.

It would seem like you need to check if he expo'd or not, but either way your reacting after his choice and will probably be behind. If you re-expo you lose it to his follow up push if he doesn't expo...just wondering what the best plan is after your intial trade if the natural falls.


If you scout him not expanding and going MM then you can be aggressive with your first units and engage him at his ramp. His army > yours and he may get some emp's off but all you need is 1 FF to give him a good fucking. Split your sentries!
Hi
Catchafire2000
Profile Joined August 2010
United States227 Posts
June 11 2011 13:17 GMT
#32
Something to add:
@ the 5.30 mark, poke a probe in the front of their base to gage unit composition. If only marines, build a robo before building the nexus. If you see a marauder sprinkled in, then you can do the sentries thing.
jabooty
Scila
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1849 Posts
July 27 2011 05:27 GMT
#33
Anybody know how to BEAT this build as Terran? I just watched sixjaxmajor lose to it REALLY BADLY with 3 bunkers, stim, and medivacs. It just seems like the number of units is absurd. I've been completely destroyed by this build on ladder as well. I had both stim and medivacs by the time it happened.

Are you supposed to scan to know its coming or what? and then make 4 bunkers?
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-27 05:35:45
July 27 2011 05:31 GMT
#34
Good, well staggered bunkers with 3 or more barracks (as is standard) will beat basically any protoss gateway push. Staggering your bunkers is the key, so he can't just forcefield off a row and then win. Terrans are just getting greedy with not building enough bunkers, and protoss is getting more aggressive in the midgame.

As with anything else, scouting is key. 3 bunkers won't do it. You need a BUNCH of bunkers. They cost a whopping net 25 minerals. Scout aggressively and don't be afraid to pull all your natural's SCV's to hold on. Defending a seriously massive attack and being down 15 scv's is better than losing.

Also, cloak banshees. He won't have an observer. And if he does, your regular old bio ball in a few bunkers will crush him for teching and attacking.

I've also been building tanks and hellions to combat the chargelots. Nothing dissuades a gateway army quite like two seige tanks, and four or so blueflame hellions beats infinity zealots.
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
Dracover
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia177 Posts
July 27 2011 06:32 GMT
#35
On July 27 2011 14:27 Scila wrote:
Anybody know how to BEAT this build as Terran? I just watched sixjaxmajor lose to it REALLY BADLY with 3 bunkers, stim, and medivacs. It just seems like the number of units is absurd. I've been completely destroyed by this build on ladder as well. I had both stim and medivacs by the time it happened.

Are you supposed to scan to know its coming or what? and then make 4 bunkers?


Put more bunkers down. I've found anywhere up to 5 is necessary.

This build dies to tanks, of course depends on the map. With a wide open natural, tanks cant cover everywhere compared to say sharkuras but in general tanks will hold this sort of build.

Also dont lose ur initial bio ball. Far too often as toss, i will go 1 gate expo vs a 1/2 rax expo or something along those lines. The terran scouts the nexus and tries to "punish" it. Every time as toss u destroy the army, get 6 gateways immediately and "a" move. With correct use of FF you cannot "punish" a 1 gate expo with a 1/2 rax opening. Just macro there's no need to try to win. Any slight advantage u had in army size because u have 2 rax vs 1 rax is negated by the time you walk to their base.


Don't stop
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
July 27 2011 06:38 GMT
#36
I remember MC doing this back in GSL season three, and just crushing terrans (with this build and others). "Other Protoss players don't know how to play PvT" he said in explanation. The ability to FF bunkers to keep scvs from repairing them seems very strong, especially on maps with open naturals like Xel'naga caverns, where you can engage one or two bunkers at a time.
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
Exists
Profile Joined June 2011
United States32 Posts
July 27 2011 06:42 GMT
#37
As a Terran how do I beat this? One said there are no weak points in the build so how do I beat it as T?
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. -Dwight D. Eisenhower
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
July 27 2011 06:44 GMT
#38
On July 27 2011 14:27 Scila wrote:
Anybody know how to BEAT this build as Terran? I just watched sixjaxmajor lose to it REALLY BADLY with 3 bunkers, stim, and medivacs. It just seems like the number of units is absurd. I've been completely destroyed by this build on ladder as well. I had both stim and medivacs by the time it happened.

Are you supposed to scan to know its coming or what? and then make 4 bunkers?


It's a pretty well understood concept in Starcraft that teching will leave you with less units if your opponent just builds unit producing structures, your tech has to have time to pay off, and safety during the teching has to be bought through information or efficiency. Why head for the starport if you havent' seen a robotics? You might be over-estimating how important medivacs are vs just more unit producing structures.
chaopow
Profile Joined March 2011
United States556 Posts
July 27 2011 07:17 GMT
#39
6gate/7gate is very very strong vs a MMM terran. They need at minimum 3 well placed bunkers, and sometimes up to 4 or 5. Bunkers can be salvageable so it is necessary the terran gets this many to hold this sort of all in type build. Its not a full all in, it requires some damage to be done, but it doesn't need to out right kill the opponent as in a full all in. The gas steal is good, it doesn't fully rule out a delayed cloak banshee, but significantly reduces the probability of it.

The reason its so strong is because of all the resources the terran spends on teching towards medivacs. If the terran went 4 or 5 rax mass marine marauder with stim, then it would be a pretty even fight.

Very viable timing attack, just try not to let it get scouted, and spread out your gateways. Don't let 1 scan catch all your gateways.
Soowoo AD.
Catchafire2000
Profile Joined August 2010
United States227 Posts
August 04 2011 22:38 GMT
#40
In the GSL Team League game Slayers vs Prime, the third game Hung Un does a 6 gate rush against an expanding Terran
jabooty
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