EPT[G]Zerg vs Protoss - Page 4
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
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CtrlAltDefeat
Israel106 Posts
One thing I've been having trouble is with toss 1 base plays and scouting them. I know that if he doesn't take his 2nd gas, most likely a 4gate is coming. But if protoss takes his 2nd gas, and let's say his second unit is a stalker so he kills my scout quickly, there are so many things he could do. He could just 3gate expand (despite making a stalker), he could fake expand into 4/5gate push, he could do 1 gate stargate and get many pheonixes before I have AA and expand on that, he could do some 3gate push with vray support, even dt rush, etc... My scouting options are very limited. 20% of the time I could sacrifice an ovie and see something, but on many maps and positions that is isn't even an option. And, well, checking energy on the nexus....doesn't help much/isn't reliable. One thing I've been playing with is, if I suspect something tricky, making an evo at some set timing, and creating 2/3 spores (1 at main mineral line, 1 at natural, maybe 1 at natural mineral line). I think maybe I could afford to do that since I don't make a roach warren as early as you do, and I usually manage to get the hatch down at 15. What do you think? | ||
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Phyxate
United States49 Posts
This has been my recent strategy vs. toss, going roaches/hydras/corrupters and sniping the colossi. A few questions. 1) How do you feel the new infestor change has affected this matchup, if at all? 2) Have you switched over to infestors and if so how do you incorporate them into your build order (timing and army composition) after opening with this FE build? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 12 2011 00:33 CtrlAltDefeat wrote: Nice guide Blade, I like to do many things similarly. One thing I've been having trouble is with toss 1 base plays and scouting them. I know that if he doesn't take his 2nd gas, most likely a 4gate is coming. But if protoss takes his 2nd gas, and let's say his second unit is a stalker so he kills my scout quickly, there are so many things he could do. He could just 3gate expand (despite making a stalker), he could fake expand into 4/5gate push, he could do 1 gate stargate and get many pheonixes before I have AA and expand on that, he could do some 3gate push with vray support, even dt rush, etc... My scouting options are very limited. 20% of the time I could sacrifice an ovie and see something, but on many maps and positions that is isn't even an option. And, well, checking energy on the nexus....doesn't help much/isn't reliable. One thing I've been playing with is, if I suspect something tricky, making an evo at some set timing, and creating 2/3 spores (1 at main mineral line, 1 at natural, maybe 1 at natural mineral line). I think maybe I could afford to do that since I don't make a roach warren as early as you do, and I usually manage to get the hatch down at 15. What do you think? I would rather make a 3rd queen then making 3 spores. Thats really a waste of money especially if their not going any kind of air or DT's. There are many ways to see if he's doing some sort of 1 base, checking nexus energy is pretty useful normally when they save 75+ before their cyber's done they 4 gate, if you keep running up the ramp with 1 ling tto see what he has, and natural and see he hasn't made an expo yet and its been awhile. Then you know he's doing either DT's or air or 4 gate. @ Blade This has been my recent strategy vs. toss, going roaches/hydras/corrupters and sniping the colossi. A few questions. 1) How do you feel the new infestor change has affected this matchup, if at all? 2) Have you switched over to infestors and if so how do you incorporate them into your build order (timing and army composition) after opening with this FE build? 1. I personally don't really use infestors that much except late late game when getting broodlords and stuff I try too add a few. I don't really think going lots of infestors is viable, especially if they decide to get templar and just feedback them all. 2. Guess I answered this in #1 but with broodlords/ultra normally. I don't like infestors too much in zvp, while they work good in zvt/zvz I just don't feel the same about zvp right now ^^. | ||
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macaronij
Argentina67 Posts
How do you handle 2 stargate (1 base) whit a wall in/canons? (2/4 void at 7/8 min) When he attacked whit the void, he expanded and make a lot of gateways. I scouted and made more quens and a spore/base, trying to tech to mutas, but i could not hold it. Do i have to tech hydras? don t i loose all map control? or hold it whit spore+queens? I don t want to roach/ling vs his cannons, they are behind a wall and will be an all in, perhap just scare him so he make some stalkers? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 12 2011 06:42 macaronij wrote: Thank you very much for these guides!! How do you handle 2 stargate (1 base) whit a wall in/canons? (2/4 void at 7/8 min) When he attacked whit the void, he expanded and make a lot of gateways. I scouted and made more quens and a spore/base, trying to tech to mutas, but i could not hold it. Do i have to tech hydras? don t i loose all map control? or hold it whit spore+queens? I don t want to roach/ling vs his cannons, they are behind a wall and will be an all in, perhap just scare him so he make some stalkers? No problem! Glad you enjoy them. Lets see the first thing to do if your running up the ramp with your lings (1 at a time so they dont' FF all of them  ). And you see cannons that should already give you a huge warning that something is coming.Try to sacrifice an overlord if possible, I would make an evo chamber asap with more queens as well. You will lose map control, that is fine you have to remember not only do you have your natural already, his might just be starting when he attacks you with his air (assuming he's not all inning). If your scouting overlord can't see whats going on, I would throw down spore crawlers as honestly there's really 2 builds he could be doing that would make him make cannons up the ramp, DT's, or heavy air play. So either way spore crawlers will help, extra queens of course will help, and once you see if he's actually going air you can mass drone pump (no point in making ling/roach if he's got 2 stargates as he will not be able to afford that with air units + gateway units). If you want to get spire tech don't make muta's make corruptors as they smash phoenix's, and will smash his voidrays unless he has a lot which he shouldn't have that many off of 1 base. Yeah don't all in, it probably won't work and not really worth it vs a player that knows how to hold it off. I would personally get hydra's but I prefer roach/hydra right now over muta (but I still do muta builds from time too time although its been awhile haha ). But to hold the initial void rays will I would do a couple spores + queens, and then either go corruptor/muta or hydra whichever you prefer as his gateway tech I believe they delay it and either way his ground force will need time to be made. So you can have a killer economy with lots of drones, and then going whatever unit composition you want whether that be roach/hydra, muta/ling/roach or whatever. hope this helps you out  | ||
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Alphasquad
Austria505 Posts
On April 12 2011 06:42 macaronij wrote: Thank you very much for these guides!! How do you handle 2 stargate (1 base) whit a wall in/canons? (2/4 void at 7/8 min) When he attacked whit the void, he expanded and make a lot of gateways. I scouted and made more quens and a spore/base, trying to tech to mutas, but i could not hold it. Do i have to tech hydras? don t i loose all map control? or hold it whit spore+queens? I don t want to roach/ling vs his cannons, they are behind a wall and will be an all in, perhap just scare him so he make some stalkers? if the protoss has one base and you have 2 there is no map to control; the key is to scout it and react in time; if the protoss makes air from 2 stargates he invests a lot of gas for one base so queens should be enough to hold and a quick lair for hydras; mutas are too risky and not necessary against one base (where would you harass when everything of the protoss is close together?) | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 15 2011 04:37 Warrior Madness wrote: Hey blade5555 have you experimented around with bling drops? When the toss is securing his third and you can't really attack into it an you're maxed I think a roach hydra (with a little less hydra) + bling drop composition might work well. Especially if you multiprong drops without taking away from your main army. I've even seen a few zergs who don't go corrupters and just go roach bling hydra. What do you think about that sort of composition/midgame strategy? I do think bling drops are good. I personally don't do them, but I have seen them used too great effect. I would not get baneling drops over no corruptors though. If a toss knows you do this blink stalkers can shut it down pretty good, and if he spreads his colossi so banelings can't kill them all with splash. I can agree with doing some and corruptors but I wouldn't ever not make corruptors but thats me personally. as I have said before I have been trying drop play though like trying too incorporate 4 roach drop in main + third and attacking his natural if I see he moves his whole army to take care of one or both. Just things I have been trying too experiment more. but its a good strategy but I would still get corruptors | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 15 2011 08:23 Warrior Madness wrote: As a followup question why do you get hydras anyway? Why can't you just go roach/corrupter with some blings thrown in? If they do some sort of air opening it might be possible to just overwhelm him with burrowed roaches or deny his expo for as long as possible. I go hydra because once the colossi are out of the way they tear through gateway units really well (especially with roach support). I just like it more then roach/bling/corruptor. Idk just don't like doing baneling drops for some reason I couldn't really say why haha ^^. I don't really have any reason as to why I don't go roach/corruptor/baneling in terms of if I think its bad or anything I haven't really seen it enough too have a comment and haven't tried it too much myself. | ||
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Chaos_SC2
Hong Kong9 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 25 2011 22:09 Chaos_SC2 wrote: Um...one question to ask, can roaches kite zealots off-creep or without speed upgrade before teching to lair? I try to kite, but zealots hit my early roaches... Um its hard without speed upgrade if they got a ton. You can on creep a little bit but they will catch up eventually. Once speed upgrade is done yeah they kite easily. too answer your question kind of but not like a marauder with concussive shells could. | ||
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Chaos_SC2
Hong Kong9 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 27 2011 15:04 Chaos_SC2 wrote: 2 gate seems going to rise again becoz of the new patch...Is there any replay/tutorial against 2 gate as zerg? Well I haven't faced 2 gate yet, but once the patch comes out and every toss and their grandma starts doing it to me again I"ll definitely add those replays and bump this thread too let people know! | ||
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Disarray
United States1164 Posts
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Disarray
United States1164 Posts
http://www.mediafire.com/?ic9l9i8dh7y579z tried doing just about everything, seems like I'm either always behind in workers, or tech, and if I ever try to get one over the other, I lose for it. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 28 2011 09:27 Disarray wrote: I really don't get this MU at all http://www.mediafire.com/?ic9l9i8dh7y579z tried doing just about everything, seems like I'm either always behind in workers, or tech, and if I ever try to get one over the other, I lose for it. Well should have control of the watch tower always in the early game! Not a big one but just something I would point out. throwing down 1 spine crawler is fine, but throwing 2 blindly like that I wouldn't do that, it hurts drone production. Would rather get your roach warren as its better vs 4 gate then blindly throwing down spine crawlers that may not be useful at all if he expands with 3 gate. Also with that overlord, there's a spot in the corner where you can see if he expo's, and you can keep checking if he's expanding or not. If you see expansion you can drone and not have too pump out too many units. Although I have roaches too be made so I don't have too worry about making zerglings so early. The zergling attack you did was pretty bad because most of those could have been drones. So you put yourself way behind especially sense he held it off with no damage. Needed too throw down a spire also! So you could get corruptors. I mean you kind of lost this game when your ling attack failed as that put you so far behind. Also you over made hydra's, hydra's are ok but having that many won't work out due to colossi ripping you too shreds. I would try the exact build I posted in the OP and see how you like it. Watching some of the replays I posted might help you a little bit too, too see how I play it. Hope this helps you out! Also I'm not in sPs anymore lots of people from that clan left me being like the first . | ||
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Disarray
United States1164 Posts
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Disarray
United States1164 Posts
http://www.mediafire.com/?85xfb8sac1p3hqi any criticisms ? edit: I know these are only diamond players >< | ||
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