On May 14 2011 18:24 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
why are they nerfing the raven so much when it's not even used that often?!?! For example the HSM nerf was completely unnecessary

Next they're going to nerf auto-turrets...

i also don't like how u can only cast 1 HSM per raven, that's just very strange to me...

just checked out science vessel in BW; now I know it's a different game but...

75 energy for 1 irradiate which has 9 range

wtf??

Sadly, but days of BW are almost gone. And all we can do by now is just face with these blizzard jokes.
I think until the people, who are now responsible for balance, are not fully replaced with adequate ones, this game will continue degrade.

NeonFox

2373 Posts

May 14 2011 09:42 GMT

#264

Even though I play zerg I found PDD against broodlords to be a cool strat, why Blizzard?

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10366 Posts

May 14 2011 09:52 GMT

#265

@Jimbo77

Well I think David Kim is capable, he is a GM Random player (ofc ladder doesn't show how good you are directly but it shows he is a "competent" player), and so far he and his balance team are making some pretty smart decisions, so I have some faith in them even in nerfing the Raven; I'd just like to know their reason for what may seem like unnecessary nerfs.

Jimbo77

139 Posts

May 14 2011 10:00 GMT

#266

On May 14 2011 18:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
@Jimbo77
Well I think David Kim is capable, he is a GM Random player (ofc ladder doesn't show how good you are directly but it shows he is a "competent" player),

I think if he wants he can even be №1 in GM and even higher. It's not so difficult for man who is at the other side of Bnet

I can agree with you that his team sometimes make really good decisions, but it's really not above 20% of all.

KaiserJohan

Sweden1808 Posts

May 14 2011 11:05 GMT

#267

Do you have a ladder link of Kims profile to verify this?

Unhallowed

Canada171 Posts

May 14 2011 11:16 GMT

#268

I think Kim's ID is dayvie; Day[9]'s blip has some games from a blizzard in house tourney.

I am very sad about this change. I always felt smart getting a raven against broodlords... it was quit comical when the zerg player was unaware of this mechanic. PDD is still OK against muta (if you are forcing them to stand and fight). Maybe I will start getting more ravens for PDD to shutdown the rampant hydras in TvZ these days (joking of course :D).

blackodd

Sweden451 Posts

May 14 2011 11:34 GMT

#269

Sad.. it was cool, and I say this as zerg

4Servy

Netherlands1542 Posts

May 14 2011 12:00 GMT

#270

what a load of crap

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

May 14 2011 12:47 GMT

#271

awww to bad, i really liked the change, as broodlings are something of the most annyoing things, and sadly seeker missile will never ever get even in execute rage of any army with a caster unit and blizzard encouraged to use casters with buffs. Guess the raven is the exception, though i really love him. only terran have the 150 energy skills, and then all 3 are easy to stop with range 9 casts >.< , while only 1 is above range 9.
Well guess vikings are supposed to beat broodlords ^^ and ghosts/tanks shall take care of infestors. which is of course the more skill needy variation of this.

Blazinghand

United States25559 Posts

May 15 2011 04:29 GMT

#272

On May 14 2011 18:24 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:i also don't like how u can only cast 1 HSM per raven, that's just very strange to me...

just checked out science vessel in BW; now I know it's a different game but...

75 energy for 1 irradiate which has 9 range

wtf??

BW was a different game. It was harder to tech to vessels, and harder to use several spellcasters at once, AND irradiate is a vastly different spell.

Qntc.YuMe

United States792 Posts

May 15 2011 05:03 GMT

#273

couldnt u just get a bunch of vikings instead of ravens? I mean, i rather kill the problem than stall it.

SheaR619

United States2399 Posts

May 15 2011 05:26 GMT

#274

On May 15 2011 14:03 DreamRaider wrote:
couldnt u just get a bunch of vikings instead of ravens? I mean, i rather kill the problem than stall it.

Yes, but that not really the point. The point is that they are destroying diversity in the game even when it wasnt really causing problem. Like who used this? No one and yet they got rid of it. It could of been more interesting and made raven more useful cause as they are right now, they are pretty eh....

rmAmnesiac

United Kingdom185 Posts

May 15 2011 08:40 GMT

#275

On May 15 2011 14:26 SheaR619 wrote:

Show nested quote +

and what if you were maxed or didn't scout absolutley immediately, and still had additional starports and reactors for starports in production? within any thing to stall it's pretty much gg when the broodlords are out.

Tvk

Latvia62 Posts

May 15 2011 16:55 GMT

#276

Lovely Fix <3

yakitate304

United States655 Posts

May 15 2011 21:36 GMT

#277

On May 14 2011 12:07 eloist wrote:
The Raven is the most cumbersome unit to use "more" there is. It's awesome but seriously flawed.

Going raven predominantly means a lot of waiting.

While you can warp in as many templars as you have warp gates when you build the archive, build as many ghosts as you have tech lab'ed barrack or build as many infestors as you have larva, you can only build one raven at a time unless you invest another hefty 150 gas for another tech lab'ed starport. The raven is super expensive on gas as is so you can't really afford to do that. So you got to wait for the to produce.

What makes this even worse is that the higher end spells cost so much energy that you have to either wait an eternity to use them or wait for the energy upgrade to finish before building your ravens one at a time. More waiting.

And anyways, upgrades. Energy upgrade, seeker missle, durable materials, high range auto tracking building armor, what the hell. More waiting. All while you're incredibly vulnerable to basically anything.

So then you sit around waiting for enough energy for seeker missles and PDDs, most of the time you end up having to use what little energy you've saved up on auto turrets just to stay alive. But really, you're just digging yourself a deeper hole.

And when you have your ravens with their upgrades and let them accumulate enough energy and this is when you discover that they are actually pretty slow and all their spells have a super short range and all this investment of time and gas is actually pretty risky to use.

I don't think we'll see people use more than 2 ravens very often. The commitment is just not comparable to other casters.

I am exaggerating a bit of course but I'm pretty sure neither Idra nor Incontrol have actually tried to use the raven much.

I don't think it requires you to wait THAT long to produce. Also, you don't need to drop another Tech Lab - you can simply make a second Starport (which isn't a bad idea regardless) and swap with a Tech Lab Barracks, then swap back if you wish. Of course that's only a little bit of gas saved, but it does cut down on the time it would take to create a brand new Tech Lab.

zergrushkekeke

Australia241 Posts

May 17 2011 10:10 GMT

#278

This is the saddest thing ever.

Now it doesn't work I can't use my mass marines end game (which probably is a good thing). Is PDD even worth it vs the corruptor cloud that hover around the droodelords?

Thrombozyt

Germany1269 Posts

May 17 2011 12:45 GMT

#279

On May 15 2011 14:03 DreamRaider wrote:
couldnt u just get a bunch of vikings instead of ravens? I mean, i rather kill the problem than stall it.

It takes MANY vikings to eliminate broods before they force an unsiege and as soon as you unsiege you die to ling/bling.

With PDD you were able to stay sieged and deal with broods.

Edit:
I also don't get the call to buff the speed or acceleration of the seeker missile. The most detrimental factor by far is the abysmal casting range, followed by the friendly fire splash that prevents it's use against meelee units (which are actually good targets because you can kill them with one missile and they tend to clump).

Iyerbeth

England2410 Posts

May 17 2011 13:01 GMT

#280

I always thought the fact that the killed broodlings still did impact damage was the bug and not the PDD killing them. It's a shame they stopped it, it wasn't like it was impossible to deal with it as Zerg and it wasn't in any noticable way imbalanced in favour of the Terrans so I don't agree with this change. In short, another Zerg just chiming in to say I'm not in favour of that change.